Best oil for 05 Jetta TDI PD?

JWaltersTDI

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I just got my 05 Jetta PD, I understand there are only 2 oils rated 505.1, the Castrol TXT and The Motul. Does anyone know which would be better? I understand that the Motul is a pure PAO like Amzoil, and that Castrol is not. A oure PAO would probably be better to resist the turbo heat and cause less coking and possibly less doposits in the intake...any ideas?
 

Davin

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Motul 505.01 is NOT a pure PAO. It's a Group III. I believe they call it "technosynthese". There's also an Elf product out there, but it seems a little more difficult to find.

As for which is better? I don't know if there's a consensus on that. Both are fine oils... get whichever one is more convenient or cheaper for you!
 

JWaltersTDI

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Portland, Oregon
I just found out that Bardahl does in fact make a 505.1 spec oil and I understand it is a group 4 PAO.. Its odd the API spec is only good to CF..Not sure if that has any bearing on it.. Out of the 3 oils so far I can find, the Castrol, TXT, Motul group 3's or the group 4 Bardahl, Which would be the best?
 

maxforce

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I just found out that Bardahl does in fact make a 505.1 spec oil
Where did you see this?
DVANTAGES OF 100% SYNTHETIC XTC MOTOR OIL

· Better flow at low temperature (-46°C)

· Promotes improved fuel economy

· Keeps the engine (combustion chamber, PCV "positive crankcase ventilation" valve) and air intake cleaner

· Better "oxidation stability" (stay-in-grade) at high temperatures

· Superior protection for turbo powered engines

· Reduces oil consumption between oil changes

· Helps to "prevent the thermal breakdown" (extended oil drains)

· Increases engine life

· Reduces harmful emissions and excessive exhaust smoke

· Better shear strength (extended oil drains)

· Naturally more detergent (cleaner and smoother running engine)

· Recommended for high-performance 4-stroke engines
· Meets the following Manufacturers standards:

- VW-Audi 500.00, 501.01, 502.00 (gasoline) and 505.00/505.01(diesel)
- Mercedes-Benz 229.1
- BMW, Porsche
- Ford M2C917
- GM 9986125
- Department of Defence A-A-52039B
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
505.01 compliant oils:






...and that's just for starters!
 

dieseldorf

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J: all the 505.01 oils are what Americans call synthetic blends indicating that the primary component is mineral oil, not PAO. Don't get too hung up on this...it's just the way it is
The Motul 505.01 oil is certainly a Group III (API terminology) product.
 

nortones2

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They don't seem to have received their approval confirmation from VW yet. Maybe because they haven't followed the recipe. Perhaps a synthetic blend is a better lubricant for this application
 

dieseldorf

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I have much doubt about the Bardahl product. They don't have the hard documentation and may not in the future. I would sit that one out.
 

ufoguy

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dieseldorf, i received a response from castrol that indicated that their oil is fully synthetic. please take a read of the response below and see if you think it indicates that all 505.01 oil is fully synthetic (not a blend) or just the TXT that i inquired about. i wish i could get a straight answer from them. i thought the 505.01 stuff was a blend. thanks very much.

i wrote:

Is Castrol TXT that meets the VW 505.01 specifications for the TDI engine fully (100% synthetic, like Mobil1 and Amsoil)? Or is it a blend like the previous 505.01 spec Castrol?

Is TXT available through mail order or just through VW dealerships?

I would like to post your response on my VW diesel club forum as there are many members that want a 100% synthetic 505.01 oil for the TDIs.

Thank you for your assistance.

cp

castrol wrote:

Thank you for contacting Castrol North America.

VW only plans to sell a limited number of the 2004 "Pumpe-duese" equipped VW models that would require the 505.01 lubricant annually.

The 505.01 engine oil is specifically formulated to ensure protection of the cam lobes that drive the unit injectors. High loading requires the proper level of antiwear protection. In turn VW needs to ensure that 505.01 is utilized for this engine design. The cam shafts are mechanically driven and assist in the build up of fuel pressure in each injector.

Castrol Germany is supplying Castrol 505 01 and this product is only available in North America through VW dealerships. It is branded as Castrol 505 01 oil and has a VW part number (G 052 167A2).

Castrol 505 01

<font color="blue"> Fully Synthetic oil for diesel engines </font>

Description

CASTROL 505.01 is a synthetic technology engine oil especially developed for diesel engines manufactured by Volkswagen/Audi group fitted with "pump and nozzle" direct fuel injection systems.

Product Application

The use of CASTROL 505.01 is exclusively intended for service fill and top-up of passenger cars fitted with Volkswagen/Audi pump and nozzle diesel engines where lubricants conform to specification VW505.01.

Features/Benefits

• A light viscosity synthetic based oil offering good cold flow characteristics

• Excellent thermal stability and superior wear protection to meet the specific demands of the pump-nozzle engine design

• Specially formulated to provide improved fuel efficiency when compared with conventional engine oils.

PACKAGES

- 12 x 1 l ......................................... plastic bottle

- 1 x 60 l ......................................... metal barrel

Castrol Consumer Relations
 

dieseldorf

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ex- 1996 wagon, ex-2000 Jetta
CASTROL 505.01 is a synthetic technology engine oil especially developed for diesel engines manufactured by Volkswagen/Audi group fitted with "pump and nozzle" direct fuel injection systems.
ufo, I'd be much more comfortable if you wrote back and asked if the oil started off as mineral oil.


Terminologies and jargon are easily mis-interpreted! It could be quite difficult to penetrate the Castrol
mega-marketing-machine


I suspect if you ask the same question of the 505.00 oil, they'll give you the same answer.


Ask the hard question: Is there any mineral oil in there! Did the oil start off as mineral oil? Group III vs. Group IV/V?
 

nortones2

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High Peak, UK
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Formerly Passat 1.9 110hp
Its a blend. They all are, to meet VW requirements. This is the giveaway: synthetic technology engine oil. Not a million miles from saying 100% synthetic, but not the same. Consider your average "fruit" drink. In UK (can't say about NA): it can be described as strawberry flavour, or strawberry flavoured. One has fruit in it, and the other has a lab product. Guess which? The consumer has to be a lawyer to detect the scam.
Nothing wrong with group III oil, SFAIK, but marketing demands the image of synthetic. And the infamous advertising forum "judgement" helps the process of obfuscation that DD refers to!
 

ruking

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2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
I certainly have to admire TDI PD 04/05 engine owners for in effect pioneering this new VW 505.01 oil in the USA. By actions taken by Castrol and VW, it seems to me that are saying is that it is far more cost effective and also far more profitable to so called "import" the PD oil from Castrol's German supply logistics chain, and sell it through VW dealers logistic chain than to have it manufactured and sold through the consumer market logistical chain. This is also amazing in light of the literally myraid of oils manufactured and available for sale in the European market place that meets among others, the VW 505.01 specification.

There have been a few oil analysis tests that in effect indicate less than stellar numbers and in effect indicate one additive element that seems to be more for emissions longevity. Since most other non PD oils do not use this, it is easy for the warranty station to do an oil analysis and deny a warranty claim if the customer has not been using Castrol and or Motul. In my own personal view (among others , but) the Delvac One has more of "what you are looking for" than the two 505.01 offerings Castrol and Motul.

For me four caveats 1. I dont have a PD motor 2 I am not the warranty provider.3.I am not advocating switching to 505.00 oils 4 I am not here to start a flame war.

Being as how Castrol is available through the VW parts logistical supply chain, it is absolutely amazing to me to hear that the customers of VW dealerships have to go through extraordinary insurance measures to make sure the DEALER is using the correct VW 505.01 oil.
Yet, despite the dealer's routinely using the "incorrect" oil there is NO rash of failures on the 2004/2005 TDI's engines due to so called "incorrect" oil use related issues. As you know VW issued a not too subtle, yes, dire warning; that catastophic engine damage WILL occur if ANY other oil than the 505.01 is used. If there is a rash of failures, they are certainly keeping it a greater state secret than where is Osama Bin Laden and why we still can't catch him.
 

04Wagon

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Here is Volkswagen response to my request about Bardahl’s claim of 505.01

"Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately, since Bardahl is not a part of or associated with Volkswagen of North America, we would not be able to confirm their claim that their oil is 505.01 approved. We can only comment on the oils that are offered on our website."

If Mobil 1 has European oil that is 505.01 can we not get a group by on this and say ship a few skids to NA? I sure would like a 100% syn to run in the 04 PD and as I have been using Mobil 1 for years in gas engines.
 

dieseldorf

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The European offerings from Mobil for 505.01 are Group III oils, they are not Group IV/V so I am not certain what you are pursuing.
 

04Wagon

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My bad, I was under the impression there were full synthetics over the pond that were 505.01 and that is what I was pursuing.
 

JWaltersTDI

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Location
Portland, Oregon
Bardahl seems to be on the right track of what I am looking for, a 505.01 full synthetic group 4 PAO. I guess at this point is we need to wait for official VW certification that this oil is indeed 505.01 and will stand up to warranty requirements. It seems to me if they advertise that it has met 505.01 then the certification is already there..
Fortuntely I only have less than 500 mi on my PD, so I have some time to sit back and wait to see where this leads. I am interested in the best oil I can put in the car, regardless of the cost. I had an oil related problem with Castrol Syntec in my BMW 524td with cam wear, so I am leary of Castrol synthetics..
 

TDiMike

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Guys, guys guys...you're dancing around it and creating confusion in this thread, so I'll boil it down:

1) Engine oils labelled Full Synthetic or described as 100% synthetic by Oil companies, DO NOT have to be Group IV (Full PAO) oils. The US law allows for this labelling and description.

2) No where does VW or VWoA say that PAO/GroupIV oils must or should be used in PD engines. They merely say to use 5W40 synthetic oil that meets the 505.01 spec.
 

d2305

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All of the 505.01 oils are synthetic blends. I'm not sure about the 506.01 oils as you can't get them over here, unless you import them yourself.
 

JWaltersTDI

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Portland, Oregon
The point of this whole post was not to just find the oil that "meets specifications" or is "good enough" but to find the very best. I can ge Castrol TXT from the dealer for 6.00 a liter, and if it is truely the "best" than fine, but IF there is a group 4 PAO that is absolutely the "best" than thats what I want. And since the EGR issue is still not settled on weather its the fuel causing the gunk or the oil, I think the very best oil would be a good place to start. I feel a group 4 oil would have a much better chance of staying stabil in the turbo.
So I guess the question still stands: Out of all the group 3 505.01 oils which one would be the very best? And is Bardahl a group 4 and should we wait to see if it truely meets 505.01, and are there any other 505.01 oils that are pending certification that might meet group 4...? The other question I think other readers want to know is a group 4 going to offer better protection in our PD's or is it not going to be worth the extra cost or the wait?
 

nortones2

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The supposed superiority of a group IV over the 505.01 formulation is not obvious. I suspect, but don't know, that 505.01 oils described as semi -synth contain a mixture of group III (which is not a fixed quality, as the characteristics depend on the process, apparently) and of Group V esters which again are doubtless of differing "quality". Additionally there are issues to do with the additives required. Solubility varies, so that some oils (group IV for example) are less able to suspend certain additives. So did VW choose a blend to optimise resistance to wear? When you consider that Group IV is not a quality standard but a category of oil used in a package, the whole of which is relevant, not just one ingredient, you must realise that this is not a simple issue? When and if VW give approval to a fully synth 505.01 oil you can buy it in the knowledge that it will be good enough. No point spending more without evidence: refer to Occams Razor for illumination. Until then you don't have much choice, unless you are willing to risk warranty voidance.
 

JWaltersTDI

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Portland, Oregon
I agree. I wish it were very evident which would be the best oil, but until I find that out and as always, I wont risk a warranty violation in any event. I perform my own oil changes and will document the oil with a receipt as well as a UPC, and keep a log. In the event I cant find any 505.01 that Is better or the best, I will use the Castrol TXT as it is available at my local dealer for I believe 6.00 a liter.
 

nortones2

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Does Delvac have 505.01 certification? I don't think so. Use at your own risk. European cars have their own peculiarities including a separate and distinct oil approvals programme, where ACEA standards are augmented by engine makers specific requirements. You can ignore API in this context: thats not to put API down, its just that you can't compare US truck standards (API C grades) with European high speed diesel engines (high speed by comparison with trucks:)) reliably. In this situation, the engine mfrs data needs to be followed. Unless you have a pioneering spirit and deep pockets, cos VW can and will check the oil composition if the cams etc fail.
 

AndyH

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Some scattered thoughts for what they're worth...

-- European companies can't call a group III base oil 'synthetic' the same way manufacturers can in the U.S. This suggests to me that if a European product says it's synthetic it should contain at least a group IV (PAO) base. (my assumption...)
-- Absolutely DO disregard API specs in your search. In the ladder of oil performance (overall quality?) and certification severity, from low to high, think API, ACEA, Specific manufacturer spec.
-- Your goals and a manufacturer's goals might not be in harmony. You might select a better lubricant because you're looking for a 300,000 mile engine -- while a manufacturer might be looking for something 'good enough' to get past the warranty period, or improve their corporate fuel economy score, or stop ring sticking...
-- An engine oil is a complex brew consisting of 75-80% base oil and 20-25% additives. The cam wear issue that we think 505.01 is aimed at suggests we need more than just the normal protection of a hydraulic film (or someone thinks we do) - it suggests we're getting into the physical contact area that anti wear and extreme pressure additives do their thing. The usual additives, ZDDP and calcium, show up in oil analysis. There are other compounds that don't show up. Maybe the 505.01 oils (which appear to run the range from pure petroleum thru blends to group III to group IV) are something 'average' with a bit of esoteric EP/AW additive. Dunno yet.
-- Warranty...there's no such thing as 'a warranty'. Most manufacturer's warranties are for defects in materials or workmanship. Service reps or managers that really don't understand, and possibly those that do understand the warranty issue but 'spin' the words they use, often cause intentional fear in the customer so he/she 'plays it safe' and brings the car back to the dealer for parts and service (where dealers make most of their money) because it's easier than really figuring things out... If one chooses to use Quaker State SL (gas) oil in their PD, and the camshaft completely rounds out, Federal Law says the dealer must prove it was the lubricant that caused the problem. While that's going on, one service bay is occupied, and the vehicle owner will probably get a rental car on the dealer's dime. Instead, the dealer will point it back at the vehicle owner knowing that the owner will fold most of the time. Hmmm...kinda like health insurance. A wealthy person can pay cash when they get sick so doesn't pay health insurance - and isn't bound by the rules of the HMO. VWoA says they'll 'cure' the engine if it breaks as long as we use the approved products. You're free to use whatever product you wish as long as you also 'self insure'...

Nortones -- Group III base oils are definately of differing qualities - from batch to batch and from source crude to source crude. Group IV and V bases, tho, are consistant. To be a PAO it's got to be constructed of specific raw materials with a specific process. Think group III as water pulled from many wells across the world and run thru filters and bottled. Think group IV and V as water constructed in a lab environment by reacting hydrogen and oxygen. One is inconsistent and may contain all manner of impurities, and one is pure.

04Wagon: VW defines the requirements of the 505.01 spec, but isn't in the product certification industry. It's up to the manufacturer to test (or have their product tested) to ensure it's up to the requirements. Motul or Castrol certify their products, not VW. I wouldn't put any value one way or another on a response from VW on oil certification, unless you're asking about the nature of the spec - that's the only thing under VW's control - and the only thing their insurance company is responsible for covering...
 
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