best motor parts combo for rwd build?:

[smogmonster]

im not clear on al the engine codes 1z ahu alh etc etc i am looking to build up a motor for a rear wheel drive project maybe a bit more power but reliablity and mpg are main goals can anybody who actually knows there stuff tell me what is the best combo of parts to gather up for easiest build wiring etc etc

also i would be happy to trade parts ,due to my job i have access to various smaller parts pumps turbos heads harness etc (no blocks) but space is limited (plane) so what would be good for me to have even if its to trade for parts i want?

e.g what are the most sought after pumps ecu turbos? i dont want to buy obsloete parts then struggle to trade or use
is there anywhere i can read how to wire the motor i seem to recall eveybody saying its easy and some guy in uk? that will chop your harness to run in anything?: i like the idea of mtdi and i can locate pumps but all sounds a bit hit n miss to me

many thanks

(yes i have tried the search)

 

[AndyBees]

What car/vehicle do you plan to use?

Check out the Conversions in this Thread ...... lots of good builds with detail narrative and pics!

There ain't no list laying around to fit your request directly! If you go with a MTDI, the wiring will be very simple. While going with an all-out conversion incorporating as many bells and whistles as possible can become very complicated to say the least!

 

[2many diesels]

Europe you say......Hmmmm. You stand the chance of being popular quickly.

 

[smogmonster]

i prefer manual pump but if its so easy to wire a regular pump/;ecu il do that. but iv never seen a clear how to on it or mtdi just many pages of ego chanting and arguing
im sure theres some guys that do both do it right but dont use any forums but i dont know them then theres the forum ,,experts,, who post a lot know a little and if they dont actually know they say it cant be done so i/;lots of us are stuck wading through pages of inacurate bs

to be honest the vehicle is irrelevant really it will be some old rear wheel drive van/;truck/;wagon with a home brew adaptor or a bought one but i cant see samurai box holding up?:?: i hope they do as i have several but i cant see it and then that would be more wasted effort/$$

but if im gatheirng parts and one part makes it a better build i may as well buy those parts OR buy the parts i can swap/;sell etc to get the parts i need
so............. shoud i be buying ahu 1z afn or what?: i want life as easy as poss not intrested in any bells n whistles just want it to run right and am concerned a rover pump (ime sure theres many others not tried that would work) will be too much messing around to get right?:?:. please proove me wrong il buy a tdi 2-300 pump tommorow

my point is if i can have a 130 tdi over a 90 i may as well but for al i know its easier to build a 90 and add certain parts hence my questions i have limited space and need to fill it with the best parts
thanks for your input

 

[Freestyle72]

All the 4 cyl VW cars use the same flywheel 6 bolt pattern. So really any of those engines would be just as tricky as the next. If I was in your shoes I would use the ALH for it's abundance of parts, most mods available, etc. Doesn't sound like you are going for a crazy HP build. So ALH will probably be the best mix of performance and economics for you.

EDIT:
As an side I'd be itnerested in bringing over some europarts with you if you are considering it.

 

[smogmonster]

What car/vehicle do you plan to use?

Check out the Conversions in this Thread ...... lots of good builds with detail narrative and pics!

There ain't no list laying around to fit your request directly! If you go with a MTDI, the wiring will be very simple. While going with an all-out conversion incorporating as many bells and whistles as possible can become very complicated to say the least!

andy i see u have a tdi conversion how did u wire it? and how is it going?:
i just read 12 pages of another post with no real mention of how it got to be running excpet when asked it turns out the harness was sent away and a link to 2 places in u.s 1 had no price the othere wanted around 800 usd yet i contsntly here its easy?:?:?:?:?: i did find some guy in uk mentioned that converts the harness for about 2-300 usd?: but i cant find it now

 

[libbybapa]

An ALH would be my choice as well, provided it fit easily. The improvements with the new platform are many. The block is stronger, the intermediate shaft was eliminated. The vac pump is driven off the cam and the oil pump is chain driven off the crank. The coolant bypass circuit is incorporated into the block and head, simplifying the cooling system. The water pump (only actual essential accessory) is driven by the timing belt. Etc, etc... All good improvements.

A Land Rover 300TDI mechanical injection pump is an almost 100% bolt-on pump for the ALH (a bit more work on the AHU). It has an 11mm plunger/head assembly and so has very good fueling potential. The only things necessary for install on the ALH are to tap the three mounting holes to m10 and use m10 bolts, modify the ALH mounting bracket to bolt to the fuel distributor (I actually used an extra 1.6 bracket as it allows more bolts), install the ALH hub/sprocket and either install the shorter ALH delivery valves or bend the fuel lines slightly for the longer land rover valves (I opted for the latter as it left the electronic pump unmolested).

Although I enjoy wiring and actually own a stock electronic ALH TDI, I would opt for the mechanical install on a conversion. The install is much easier and the result is more reliable. Performance tuning is actually easier and less expensive. The only real world downsides are the inability for the engine management to diagnose a whole lot of components that are not present on the mechanical install and so cannot fail and the loss of ECU based cruise control.

 

[samuraitd]

An ALH would be my choice as well, provided it fit easily. The improvements with the new platform are many. The block is stronger, the intermediate shaft was eliminated. The vac pump is driven off the cam and the oil pump is chain driven off the crank. The coolant bypass circuit is incorporated into the block and head, simplifying the cooling system. The water pump (only actual essential accessory) is driven by the timing belt. Etc, etc... All good improvements.

A Land Rover 300TDI mechanical injection pump is an almost 100% bolt-on pump for the ALH (a bit more work on the AHU). It has an 11mm plunger/head assembly and so has very good fueling potential. The only things necessary for install on the ALH are to tap the three mounting holes to m10 and use m10 bolts, modify the ALH mounting bracket to bolt to the fuel distributor (I actually used an extra 1.6 bracket as it allows more bolts), install the ALH hub/sprocket and either install the shorter ALH delivery valves or bend the fuel lines slightly for the longer land rover valves (I opted for the latter as it left the electronic pump unmolested).

Although I enjoy wiring and actually own a stock electronic ALH TDI, I would opt for the mechanical install on a conversion. The install is much easier and the result is more reliable. Performance tuning is actually easier and less expensive. The only real world downsides are the inability for the engine management to diagnose a whole lot of components that are not present on the mechanical install and so cannot fail and the loss of ECU based cruise control.

The landy pump is good, however, I still prefer the lt pump over it. 12mm pump instead!!! I did need to fab a custom rear mount, but that was easy, I didnt need to modify any fuel lines either, they were right were they were supposed to be and bolted up. As for the electronic or mechanical pump, you will want to run electronic unless you are going to have a dedicated trail truck like I will, I plan on darned near sinking mine in rivers while offroading, that is the only reason I went mechanical.

 

[samuraitd]

Starting with the LT pump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdZhE5ubGOY
Running with the Lt pump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_x9ngcIkDo

 

[AndyBees]

andy i see u have a tdi conversion how did u wire it? and how is it going?:

Well, how I wired it is pretty much revealed in the Conversion Thread. I did go with many of the Bells and Whistles because I used the Jetta Cluster ..... all documented in the Thread. I spent hours and hours studying, making notes, etc., to perfect my understanding of the wiring components. I have it all in Excel and WordPerfect (yeah, I hate Microsoft Word, it sucks). I have a hard copy in a ring binder for reference ......... just think, who's going to work on it if a problem pops-up?

As far as how is it going ....... well, I'm still ironing out problems that are mostly not related to the ALH engine itself. However, I have not totally solved a starting issue with that engine. My 2000 Jetta engine with over 325k miles on it has functioned almost flawlessly! Seems the '02 Jetta engine in my project has been plagued from the beginning! But, I will not give-up on it! I like my Vanagon TDI very much!

Right now, I'm waiting on a new Clutch Master Cylinder, have new CV Joints/Boots ready to install, and plan to pull the tranny to have the flywheel milled ......seems the clutch grabs occassionally pulling out in 1st.

So, by these few examples, you can see that my conversion is working fairly well. At this point, I'm addressing issues with a 30 year old vehicle. Go to the last 10 to 15 pages of the Thread and observe the vehicle out on the road in use!

Gearing of your tranny will most likely be very important ....depending on your application! My gearing is all documented in the Thread!

Good luck with your project!

 

[smogmonster]

All the 4 cyl VW cars use the same flywheel 6 bolt pattern. So really any of those engines would be just as tricky as the next. If I was in your shoes I would use the ALH for it's abundance of parts, most mods available, etc. Doesn't sound like you are going for a crazy HP build. So ALH will probably be the best mix of performance and economics for you.

EDIT:
As an side I'd be itnerested in bringing over some europarts with you if you are considering it.

hi freestyle not quite sure how the flywheel bolt pattern is going to make any difference??
sounds like alh is the way to go il have to check what i allready have 9ahu and 1z i think) and see what i can get! il pm you shortly

 

[smogmonster]

sounds interesting andy ive done a few oddball long winded wiring harness swaps but for some reason im scared of this tdi busines!
i think willpower and self dicipline is the key to these long ownership project/deals
il tryt o read your write up so thankyou for that

gearing is a good point but theres various ways to help get around that if the actual trans isnt that wells suited as you know

 

[smogmonster]

libby!"

excellent reply thankyou for that info.
i know theres threads on it but there really is lots of contradictions so will the lr tdi pump bolt up and run well with good mpg etc or is it a can of worms needing lots of tinkering?: i would think for a small improvement theres a set in stone well known starting point?:

how about the 2.8 isuzu pumps?: or ford 2.5 bosch di pumps i have some of those

yes not intrested in a race motor just good poke and mpg for a daily truck ocaisional tow

so what parts should i lookout for i can source everything except the block on my euro travels

 

[smogmonster]

samuari

thanks for the post il get you some pics of my sjs by the way as il be in my yard this week.
i cant understand why i would need electronic and not you?
i just want what evers cheap/;easy to use but i prefer anything mech over electric its just less to go wrong. however i too have been in the mudd with water ovber the dash in an sj and you need to worry about ANY water getting into the intake more than anything else (you can put the electrics in a sealed watertight box)or it will punch a hole in the block very easily my winches have water proof solinoids so you could do the same.

just while on the subject iremember pugeots had a tendency to punch out the block by simply sucking in spray from trucks on the freeway!

 

[smogmonster]

whats the going rate here for a 300tdi pump?: will a 200tdi be ok?: do i need the vw or l/;r pipes?:
whats the going rate for tdi ecu,s?: maybe i can trade some ecu for partrs i need
i know i have a red i ecu here

 

[libbybapa]

libby!"

excellent reply thankyou for that info.
i know theres threads on it but there really is lots of contradictions so will the lr tdi pump bolt up and run well with good mpg etc or is it a can of worms needing lots of tinkering?: i would think for a small improvement theres a set in stone well known starting point?:

how about the 2.8 isuzu pumps?: or ford 2.5 bosch di pumps i have some of those

yes not intrested in a race motor just good poke and mpg for a daily truck ocaisional tow

so what parts should i lookout for i can source everything except the block on my euro travels

You will have to play with timing using some trial and error (or a pulse adapter and strobe) and adjust the max fuel screw, but otherwise the LR pump will work very well with the minor install requirements I mentioned. I build and sell mTDI pumps based off the Cummins 4BTA but am not particularly familiar with other Bosch pumps other than the VWs.

In order to work well it needs to bolt up, rotate CW, 4-cyl, Be from a DI engine, have at minimum a 10mm plunger/head (11 or 12mm is preferable IMO), have the correct offset for the sprocket, have an appropriate RPM governor and have an appropriate timing advance curve. On the ALH, the accelerator lever could swing either direction, on the AHU, 1Z or AFN it would have to rotate CCW. Post up some pics of other DI 4-cyl pumps and I can let you know if they would be a decent starting point.

As far as sourcing parts, the rover pumps are fairly common in England. None were imported to the US. In searching German eBay, they don't seem to be prevalent there either.

 

[libbybapa]

whats the going rate here for a 300tdi pump?: will a 200tdi be ok?: do i need the vw or l/;r pipes?:
whats the going rate for tdi ecu,s?: maybe i can trade some ecu for partrs i need
i know i have a red i ecu here

You need to look to the UK for the rover pump. They were not imported to the US. I got a 200TDI pump once and it turned out to rotate CCW and the accelerator rotated CW. Not at all usable.

As I mentioned before, the rover delivery valves are longer than the VW ones. You can either swap in VW delivery valves and bolt the VW lines up without issue or bend the lines a little to accommodate the longer delivery valves. I prefer bending the lines as the electronic pump can still be sold as a complete unit. The rover metal lines will not work.

 

[smogmonster]

Starting with the LT pump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdZhE5ubGOY
Running with the Lt pump:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_x9ngcIkDo

sounds ok mate but a bit smokey = wasted fuel and unwanted attention can u lean off the pump a little?:

 

[samuraitd]

sounds ok mate but a bit smokey = wasted fuel and unwanted attention can u lean off the pump a little?:

I dont have the manifold pressure line hooked up either, or any other vacuum lines for that matter. Once I get that done it should be much much better. I guess you can go mechanical if you want, it's just that with the electrical version you can tune it better, etc etc. As for the LT pump, you might be able to find one for cheap from a junkyard.

 

[smogmonster]

thanks libby

my daily in us is a 6bt manual but i havebeen looking for a 4bt if you know of any at sensible prices? im wondering if the ford 2.5 bosch ve will work or the 2.8 isuzu ve copy maybe even the pugeot ve pumps
so a 200 is ccw a 300 is cw and correct? whats the going rate here>?: maybe i can buy 2 sell one and buy my block in u.s allthough to be honest i like the vw tdi for its compactness and grunt and mainly ist mpg but theres other choices allready mechanical and easy to make rwd = simpler

1.9-2.1 pugeot for example but theyre not as good mpg wise. merc?: great but mostly auto heavy and again not that great mpg 2.8 isuzu brilliant but hard to find in u.s

offtopic but im thinking of junking my vp pump and fitting an olsschool pump on my 6bt whats the actual pump i need as the 6bt is fitted in allsorts in europe

 

[samuraitd]

You need to look to the UK for the rover pump. They were not imported to the US. I got a 200TDI pump once and it turned out to rotate CCW and the accelerator rotated CW. Not at all usable.

As I mentioned before, the rover delivery valves are longer than the VW ones. You can either swap in VW delivery valves and bolt the VW lines up without issue or bend the lines a little to accommodate the longer delivery valves. I prefer bending the lines as the electronic pump can still be sold as a complete unit. The rover metal lines will not work.

Are you sure on that?? The LT pump faces backwards, but runs off a gear drive, so all in all, it still does rotate CW. The 200 and the 300 tdis used the same engine anyways, look the videos of them running up on youtube.

 

[smogmonster]

samurai

lts are quite hard to find here and when you do they are usually either petrol or that 5 cyl volvo pos

 

[smogmonster]

yeah i figured same engines 200-300s just one has a little more hp but constant arguments in landy land over which is best i would ,,think,, the pumps are similar if not identical but i dont want to buy a bunch of 200,s and be stuck with them

they also argue about 2.8 isusu swaps vs 200/;300tdi but its clear the isuzu is the ,,boss,,

 

[smogmonster]

ok excuse my ignorance why is the alh better again? i see on wilkipedia theresloads of engine codes with same specs
i just dont want to walk past a good different code to buy a alh whats the main reason what years are they and is there a quick way to id them other than the sticker on cam belt cover?:

 

[smogmonster]

You will have to play with timing using some trial and error (or a pulse adapter and strobe) and adjust the max fuel screw, but otherwise the LR pump will work very well with the minor install requirements I mentioned. I build and sell mTDI pumps based off the Cummins 4BTA but am not particularly familiar with other Bosch pumps other than the VWs.

In order to work well it needs to bolt up, rotate CW, 4-cyl, Be from a DI engine, have at minimum a 10mm plunger/head (11 or 12mm is preferable IMO), have the correct offset for the sprocket, have an appropriate RPM governor and have an appropriate timing advance curve. On the ALH, the accelerator lever could swing either direction, on the AHU, 1Z or AFN it would have to rotate CCW. Post up some pics of other DI 4-cyl pumps and I can let you know if they would be a decent starting point.

As far as sourcing parts, the rover pumps are fairly common in England. None were imported to the US. In searching German eBay, they don't seem to be prevalent there either.

and just how do i tell the size of this,,head,,let me know and il see what i can dig up

 

[libbybapa]

If you want to know the fuel distributor plunger/head size, then you can look at the Bosch number It will be in the format of 0 460 0X0 000. The digit that has the X describes the plunger size. If it is an 8 it is an 8mm, 9 is 9mm, 0 is 10mm, 1 is 11mm, 2 is 12mmm.

As far as why the ALH is better, I gave a list of the reasons I feel that way in my first post in this thread. The AHU, 1Z and AFN are fine engines as well and shouldn't be discounted, IMO. I've avoided the PD engines for their cam issues and the CR engines don't interest me very much in stock form either. That said, I'd like to use the bracketry from an ALH with a 16V 2.0 CR block to make an mTDI some day, but don't have any interest in dealing with the CR engine management in a conversion.

Are you sure on that?? The LT pump faces backwards, but runs off a gear drive, so all in all, it still does rotate CW. The 200 and the 300 tdis used the same engine anyways, look the videos of them running up on youtube.

Nope, I'm not totally sure. It was quite a few years ago that I purchased that pump. I know it was advertised as a Land Rover pump, it was for a DI 4-cyl, it had an 11mm plunger, rotated CCW and the accelerator lever rotated CW. I might be wrong about it being from a 200TDI.

Anyway, to tell which way the pump rotates is fairly easy from a picture. There are two small end caps at the bottom of the pump that cover the dynamic advance piston and spring. The spring side is humped, the other side is flat (or has the cold start advance lever in the case of the IDI pumps). When looking at the sprocket, if the humped end cap is to the right side, then the pump rotates clockwise.

 

[oil_me]

I am using a factory rebuilt LT pump in my Audi 80 quattro with a brand new AHU. I've put 10,000 miles on it since last Sept. My last tank was 45 mpg. I finally found the right timing for this pump at .79mm. It starts immediately and always runs smoothly, not loud and rattley.

 

[smogmonster]

I am using a factory rebuilt LT pump in my Audi 80 quattro with a brand new AHU. I've put 10,000 miles on it since last Sept. My last tank was 45 mpg. I finally found the right timing for this pump at .79mm. It starts immediately and always runs smoothly, not loud and rattley.

sounds great! i have an 80 tdi wagon here i may pull for parts
im more interested in the l/r pumped motors as i can find those easier

 

[smogmonster]

libby

if i get an alh motor
what do i REALLY need if i bring it in pieces> because weight/space is a big issue
SO a block is out the question for now.

what hp do these come in?: am i better with audi parts or vw for a rwd fit?:

its a bit annoying as i have 1z and ahu running cars here i may break