Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

[JungleDeath]

Before i installed my new, i compaired to all the old. my front stock springs are about 1.5" shorter, as well as the VR6 spring has almost three more coils around and a heavier gaguge on the spring. its an obvious gain of spring mass. i did get to excited in the car and frogot to measure my stock and then "Beefed". I love the Whole setup. Taller, stiffer, more comfortable. i will be driving about 800 miles this weekend for Thanksgiving and all. Lets see how high way for extended periods of time goes. been great the little i have done for highway so far.
I didnt understand till i redid the suspension, On Ramps=Awsome. tracks well, pulls well, less wheel hop, WAY more response and cutting is much smoother and reactive, and G's from cornering(Nothing much). Went from Dead, to Killer!

Can we get a pic and a measurement of the top of your wheel arches?

 

[2Wagons]

Hmmm...the first picture showing that the VR6 springs are the same height as stock, was not what I experienced with my first wagon that was fitted with VR6 springs in front. The VR6 springs were at least 1.5 inches taller than the stock springs, I will try to get pictures showing height difference of the springs (stock wagon front spring vs. Moog part no 81134 from rockauto.com)

I left the stock wagon springs on the rear, and went with Bilstein HD's on the rear. I will go with Bilstein TC's on the rear of the wife's wagon, to hopefully mellow out the slightly increased tightness.stiffness of the ride (for her, but I like the ride)

Nice to see another Jetta wagon on the thread. I understand that the Jetta springs will raise a Golf, but I'm a little confused as to what will raise the Jetta wagon. I drive in snow a lot and some gravel roads and going higher by 1 to 1.5 inches all around would be really nice. Am I correct in understanding that the Moog 81134 will raise the front of my wagon the right amount? The Moog 81055 is a Jetta spring I believe, so will it do anything to the rear height on the wagon? If not, any thoughts on what spring might? Thanks!

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

Can we get a pic and a measurement of the top of your wheel arches?

Yeah absolutly, I will take the pictures today and figure out how to post them on(fairly simple just need to do it) and I will get all four corners. Im at about a 1/2 tank now too. Practically Empty inside the car, maybe 50lbs of small junk and stuff....going to warm up the camera haha. Ill be back shortly with photos. It should be a pretty accurate "Curb" weight.

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

Nice to see another Jetta wagon on the thread. I understand that the Jetta springs will raise a Golf, but I'm a little confused as to what will raise the Jetta wagon. I drive in snow a lot and some gravel roads and going higher by 1 to 1.5 inches all around would be really nice. Am I correct in understanding that the Moog 81134 will raise the front of my wagon the right amount? The Moog 81055 is a Jetta spring I believe, so will it do anything to the rear height on the wagon? If not, any thoughts on what spring might? Thanks!

Search for DIY lift. Simple sturdy $40 2"rear and front lift diy kit. All from homedepot or ace menards lowes where ever u buy hardware/plumbing supplies. I didnt do it but im still thinking about doing it

 

[Rxfire]

I will try to insert some photoes comparing stock vs Moog VR6 (81134) springs, as well as lift on Bilstein TC's with 195/65/15 tires. First time to post photos on this site, so apologies if this does not work (I can email you if this does not work)

pictures compare stock wagon springs to the new VR6 springs. I tried to get a level on the base board they sit on, and the ice chest background behind them since it is on a slight slope, and shoot level with the top of the springs. One spring would not stand straight from the fat side down.



http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=81574&title=vr6-vs-stock-wagon-springs-height-3&cat=500

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=81573&title=vr6-vs-stock-wagon-springs-height-2&cat=500

http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=81574&title=vr6-vs-stock-wagon-springs-height-3&cat=500

 

[Rxfire]

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

i hope this is how pictures work, all up close on my photobucket. ill post another with direct links of the pictures so i hope they show up right away with out link clicking
http://s79.photobucket.com/albums/j153/Tremor0502/TDI/

uhh dummy forgot to take a full car picture...back out the car....

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

also i hate saying quotes with out being exact however i do recall reading on the side of the moog boxes that my new springs came in something about spring height. it was along the lines of...Comparing the new and old coils does not directly indicate the final ride hieght, nor counting the times its wound.
I have pictures on my cell from my suspension job i will try to put on my photobucket account to and then figure how to lace into this here beautifull forum for all to see .

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

out side springs are the old ones, terrible picture but all i could find right now.

Side pic of the car from cell

this is a side view the day after i finished in a drivelane. trying to use what little winter sun i had.

Pic at a local park, same trying to get the sun to show

new vs old on the way in at 11 at night, to tired to have taken a good picture apparently, regreting now...

another late night picture of the difference, still sorry for the low qual

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

Pictures of the New Height

Making it work and yah gotta get it tight! ignore the backround, College kids shop...

Now the Actual Measurements...Sorry i just got to Excited to take before pics...
front pass

front driver

Driver rear

Drivers Rear zoomed out

Pass rear

front Pass

Front Pass Zoomed out

front pass

as others would say Yah its dirty, i wasnt gunna wash the Golf to show my "Lifted" refreshed suspension. figured it worked with it haha. Hope this helps any one thats riding the fence. DO IT ITS GREAT! Cant beat the price. Under $500 with Shine RSB and only reused two bolts and two parts off the front suspension to hold the spring on the strut. All done in my single car driveway.

Have Questions? Please Ask, more than happy to explain anything i can! Pm me too.

 

[JungleDeath]

Thanks for the pics. That helps.

With my current set up I am 28" front, 29.5" in back. I am going to order springs for the front only and disconnect the front swaybar.

 

[Loaf]

This may be a silly question, but will the Moog springs mentioned on page 1 of this thread also fit my mk3 (1998) Jetta? If not, what is a suitable replacement?

 

[deter7]

OK just got the MOOG springs and the VR6 struts & shocks mentioned in the 1st post. But before I go and have these installed I suspect that it would also be prudent for me to get some bushing for the lower control arms and sway bars front & back. Any other bushings that I should probably replace? BTW all this is for a 2001 Jetta TDI with 350,000km on it.

Also want to give it a lift more than supplied with the above hardware. I have already replaced 2 oil pans. Are there any other commercial 2" lifts other than metalnerds?

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

i would agree with the control arm bushings. an after thought is the rear axle bushings. wish i knew i needed them before i torn all of it down. owell, ill get to it this summer. mine are worn and i have 160k also due to worn shocks and out of balance wheels from previous owner. i want to say its Black Forest Industry that offers a stiffer option for a rear axle bushing and it was fair priced. i tried finding it to link for you but i couldnt come accross it again. but food for thought. its fairly cheap part, and if its gunna be all torn apart its another couple connections.
hope that helps

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

Thanks for the pics. That helps.

With my current set up I am 28" front, 29.5" in back. I am going to order springs for the front only and disconnect the front swaybar.

curiosity has me asking, why remove the sway bar?
more suspension articulation? hope i dont eat my foot guessing

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

I'm looking for ~1" lift all around but through springs for extra load capacity, not just a spacer kit.

I'd like something stiffer in the back for hauling loads and the trailer, but a 1.5" lift in the rear from the Moog 81055 wagon rear springs is more than I'm lookng for, but probably close enough for the $$

On the front, there seems to be some differences....

mech664 claimed a 2.5" lift in the front with the Moog 81134 VR6 springs which is way more than I'm looking for, but the OP claimed only a 1/2" lift which is fine (a little short even).

Any thoughts as to the significant difference in the front?

I'd like a nice level stance, just a bit higher for the 205/70/15's and stiffer for the loads/trailer pulling.

 

[JungleDeath]

I'm looking for ~1" lift all around but through springs for extra load capacity, not just a spacer kit.

I'd like something stiffer in the back for hauling loads and the trailer, but a 1.5" lift in the rear from the Moog 81055 wagon rear springs is more than I'm lookng for, but probably close enough for the $$

On the front, there seems to be some differences....

mech664 claimed a 2.5" lift in the front with the Moog 81134 VR6 springs which is way more than I'm looking for, but the OP claimed only a 1/2" lift which is fine (a little short even).

Any thoughts as to the significant difference in the front?

I'd like a nice level stance, just a bit higher for the 205/70/15's and stiffer for the loads/trailer pulling.

VW spring color code 2 Blue 2 White is supposed to give you @ 1/2" of height lift. As long as you JUST CHANGE the SPRING, that's all you should get.

2B2W spring code is from an 02ish Jetta VR6 w/ automatic trans. You could find a car in a salvage yard and get all the springs and would bet you would get what you are looking for.

The Moog springs talked about here are a much less expensive alternative to the 2B2W vw oe springs.

If someone got 2" of lift from the spring change alone, I would say there must have been a control arm/bushing change along with the spring swap. If you do not torque the fasteners on the control arms while the car is on the ground or on ramps, you get an artificial lift that will prematurely wear out the control arm bushings.

When my car first had the Billy TC's installed, I got new strut bushings also. When I got it home I measured a solid inch of lift. About 400-600 miles later, 1/2" lift. A year later; 1/2" lift.

If you come up short, you can then use spacers front and rear to equalize. The spacers add pre-load to the spring, not higher capacity though.

Front spacers are here. I would stack a pair on each side for max height. This can be done with a strut compressor on the car and is unlikely to need an alignment afterward.

Rear spacers are here. One is a 10mm lift, the other is 19mm lift.

 

[Fix_Until_Broke]

JungleDeath - Thanks for the info. My car has 2P1G springs on the front and 1P3G springs on the back. The suspension is original with ~175k miles on it so I probably have some sagging and will get some lift with all new mounts and bushings like you did.

It sounds like the Moog 81134's in front should do what I'm looking for with new mounts and that mech664's 2.5" lift was due to something else?

The wagon rears with 1.5" lift will probably be ok - They're definately a heavier spring which is what I'm looking for in the rear for trailer pulling and load capacity. I can lower the bottom spring mount in the rear if necessary to get the car level.

I don't want to put spacers in if I don't have to - I'm not looking for lift so much as increased load capacity and potentially a slight handling improvement from the stiffer springs.

 

[1.9 TDI Awd]

well as u all can see the pictures i put up of my car. i used the moogs listed on page one, also used the Blauparts VR6 refresh kit. felt so dead and unreactive before, rolled and pitched everywhere. much stiffer, comfortable ride now. i did do a Shine RSB too, that helps a ton with understeer. i can get the back end to wash out if i cut one way and back the other(on course, saftey first!) Not uncontrolled either. It is very reactive now and i can actually put the car where i want on the track in comparison to before.
also can drive over curbs and parking blocks for fun, show all the dropped cars whats fun!!!
so like i mentioned before i got to exicted to get before measurements, however you can take my new measurements and gather your measurements and determine from there what you need to do to achieve a height that satisfys your needs!

 

[mech644]

In my case front control arm bushings have nothing to with increase in ride height, they have never been touched other then to loosen the bolt to release any preload AFTER installing new springs, etc.
Yes, i did measure 2.5" of ride height increase after installing the Moog's ALONG with new Koni FSD's and new strut mounts (mounts= .5" alone). My Golf is a '00 5spd; can't remember specific front spring color code but I seem to recall that they are the weakest ones on the list. Add that to the fact that they were just worn out and my pre-Moog ride height was akin to a Vortexer on airbags

 

[JungleDeath]

FSD's. I've heard you can get quite a lift with those alone. That explains the extra height.

Must be a nice combo.

 

[mech644]

It's ok, IMO the FSD's are not what everyone claims they are. I think they are on the harsh side on broken/cracked pavement, small/stiff bumps. For the money they should be better by the Reds by alot, not so in my experience. Maybe they will last longer. As far as lift the combination has settled down 1" since installation.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

FSD fronts have no pressurization, will not affect ride height. Rears are low pressure and will raise the rear slightly, probably less than 1/2".

mech644, I respectfully disagree on FSD ride: I had Reds in my wagon, then FSDs, then Reds again, then FSDs again (don't ask). Between the two the ride is very similar with the edge in softness going to the Reds, but the difference is minor. MKIV ride is very sensitive to a number of things, including spring rates. Tire size and pressure make a big difference. I run stock size 15s at 36/34, which seems to give the best results with the FSDs and stock springs.

I recently put them in my '12 Golf and they're noticeably firmer in that application, although the FSDs in my wagon probably have 50K on them now. I think the 17" wheels is a part of it, along with the firmer springs. And the Golf tire pressure recommendation is 38 PSI all round. That matters, too.

 

[WillR]

I think I am going to "join your club" here with my 99 A4 Jetta.
Measurements to top of wheel well "pre fixing" = Front 25 3/4" and rear 27"
Strut mounts show 1/2 gap (shot).

First I need to look closer to get a full list of parts needed (and check out the rear control arm bushings.)
If the rear can go more time, I plan to just fix just the front for now.

Front:
I know I need to do LCA bushings in the front as well as the strut bushings, etc. So as long as I got to go that far into it, I might as well go with Bilstein TC's struts. and at the price of the Rock Auto springs, why not?

So I figure new strut bushings will raise me 1/2", and it should like the VR6 springs will give me another 1/2? and do I need to add a 10mm spacer (1 or 2)? I bet my 130K miles springs are sacked out some as well.

That would give me 26 3/4" on the front wheel well without spacers (which is 1/4" less then rear)
But this is only 1" taller then what I currently have? I do plan on moving up to 205/70/15 tires as well.

Am I understanding here that if you have a (like new) stock front end, and change to the VR6 springs, you only gain 1/2" of ride height?

I am tired of slamming my subframe every time I hit a dip in the road, and if I drive over anything over 2" it seems to bounce around under the car. This time of year there are dead skunks in the road. (and at 4:30am sometimes I don't see them)

not sure what I want to do to the rear yet, I don't tow anything, trunk is empty accept for spare tire. I never even have passengers in the car.
And I just want to do this once this is my Daily driver I use to get to work car.

 

[2Wagons]

After looking for and not finding a cheap, beefier rear spring for my Jetta wagon, I finally bit the bullet and got IDParts German VW rear towing springs (5 yellow). Put them in today and while sitting on the bench they were the same height as the stock springs, installed they raised the rear 1.0 inch (to 27.25 to top of wheel well). I was hoping for an inch or so of height, so this worked out well, we'll have to see how they settle out. Couldn't find much information on wagons specifically.

Plan to put the VR6 Moog springs in the front, with a 10 mm spacer to hopefully give me more stiffness and about an inch height in the front as well. Then Bilstein TC's all around.

If Deter7 is already 2 blown oil pans he might want to consider a skid plate. I drive a few hundred miles of gravel every year and smile every time I change the oil and notice a new gouge in mine. Really cheap insurance and I find it quicker to remove the 5 bolts to change the oil than all those screws...

 

[Rxfire]

In ETKA there are 3 different wagon springs listed (likely only 1 in N america). I don't know what those wagon codes mean

PN 1J0511115CP 4 brown 1 silver coil spring for trailer towing, wagon PR-1JH

PN 1J0511115CN 2 violet 3 silver coil spring for sports type running gear, wagon PR-UB2

PN 1J0511115AN 5 green coil springs for vehicles with rough road equipment, wagon PR-1JG (what idparts.com sells as "trailer towing", must be the same as the 5 yellow?)

 

[deter7]

If Deter7 is already 2 blown oil pans he might want to consider a skid plate. I drive a few hundred miles of gravel every year and smile every time I change the oil and notice a new gouge in mine. Really cheap insurance and I find it quicker to remove the 5 bolts to change the oil than all those screws...[/QUOTE]

I hear ya but for now I am going to try the Moogs & new struts and shocks with an evolution 1" lift. Both of my pans were from bottoming out and with the snow here I wold like the extra clearance.
Deter7

 

[dezeljunky]

I just installed the V6 version blausports struts/shocks pkg on my 2003 Golf TDI. I am no expert and never drove a brand new stock vw golf so don't know how it compares. I can say that I'm satisfied and it does feel firm without being too harsh. I also replaced my front springs with new MOOG springs (81134) from Rock Auto and now the front is about level with the back. My panzer plate adds a bit of weight up front so the v6 struts and the newer springs were needed imho. Before my front fenders were about 1.5-2 inches lower than the rears. Now they are about 0.5 inch lower ... so I would say they were almost equal. There is no more nose diving and bottoming out for sure! I think the front is about 2 inches higher than before and the rears(with new shock but original spring) is about 0.5 inches higher. Thanks to all for the suggestion and the finding deals on the strut/shock pkg and springs.

 

[WillR]

My Moog springs should be here tomorrow. I went with the TC shocks. I also have everything I need to build the struts before I start the job. Rip the old ones out, put the new ones in. Plus complete control arms from Rock Auto (only $22.00 more then rebuilding my old ones)

I need to get this done this weekend so I can measure the ride height before I buy new tires. I am really thinking of sticking with standard size tires. the Kumho's I am looking at have a $50.00 rebate offer that expires the end of the month.

thanks Mike for pointing out Rock Auto

 

[mech644]

FYI- Don't what size/type of Kumho, or vendor. But i just boaught some Nitto's for my B4 from this place, best price I could find hands down. Make sure you look for their latest coupon code on their front page
15" Kumho's http://www.tirebuyer.com/tirebuyerw.../15/flterChg_-1306597397/true/tireBrand/Kumho
16" Kumho's
http://www.tirebuyer.com/tirebuyerw.../tSizeChg_679291222/true/action/searchyBySize