Beef on a Budget. VR6/Wagon springs

[Rickstah]

To get a longer front spring so that I only need one 10mm spacer per side or none at all, I dug up these from the 2019 Lesjöfors catalog:
40 950 31:
13.00mm wire
137mm o.d.
367mm free length
style: C I

40 950 33:
13.00mm wire
141mm o.d.
340mm free length
style: C I

Since stock is 12.5 mm wire diameter, I searched only 12.75mm and 13.0mm diameter in order to get stiffer spring rates. 13.0mm is the same wire diameter as the VR6 front springs that they sell with the towing springs from ID Parts.

The 340mm version there shows up in the Rock Auto catalog for $35/each! That's 15mm longer than the 325mm VR6 front springs that ID Parts pairs with the European rear wagon towing springs.

LESJÖFORS 4095033 Coil Spring | Shop Now at RockAuto

LESJÖFORS Suspension Parts and More for Your Vehicle at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

*for anyone looking for a little bit of lift in their sedan, I will have a set of the standard wagon springs available for next to nothing here in a few weeks... Those plus the $150 Evolution lift kit spacers would you fairly decent for a sedan.

Good information, thanks. I have been running some replacement Wagner struts with a 1.5" pipe spacer above them for a few years on my 2002 ALH NB and the lift was good although the ride was bad, lol. If you hit a very sharp bump it sounds like a hammer hit but slow speed action is acceptable. I would like to just get some replacement struts with an extra 1.5" or 2" lift so I can replace the pipe and possibly get a more compliant shock. I have some taller coils on back that do a good job, I think they were mentioned when the gent who first started the pipe spacer thread mentioned them as replacements.

I need to look again to see if taller springs require a longer shock.

 

[Figit090]

To get a longer front spring so that I only need one 10mm spacer per side or none at all, I dug up these from the 2019 Lesjöfors catalog:
40 950 31:
13.00mm wire
137mm o.d.
367mm free length
style: C I

40 950 33:
13.00mm wire
141mm o.d.
340mm free length
style: C I

Since stock is 12.5 mm wire diameter, I searched only 12.75mm and 13.0mm diameter in order to get stiffer spring rates. 13.0mm is the same wire diameter as the VR6 front springs that they sell with the towing springs from ID Parts.

The 340mm version there shows up in the Rock Auto catalog for $35/each! That's 15mm longer than the 325mm VR6 front springs that ID Parts pairs with the European rear wagon towing springs.

LESJÖFORS 4095033 Coil Spring | Shop Now at RockAuto

LESJÖFORS Suspension Parts and More for Your Vehicle at Reliably Low Prices. Fast Online Catalog. DIY-Easy. Your Choice of Quality. Full Manufacturer Warranty.

www.rockauto.com

*for anyone looking for a little bit of lift in their sedan, I will have a set of the standard wagon springs available for next to nothing here in a few weeks... Those plus the $150 Evolution lift kit spacers would you fairly decent for a sedan.

This is great info! I have my car together but I may have tried a longer spring had I known a similar one was available. Hard to say how much difference 15mm will make but I guess every bit counts. I did a mk5 strut top conversion with 2" lift outside the strut using the ID parts springs and it seems to be going well. I do notice a slight forward rake, with the rears on the same 2" lift as the front, which I expected because I did not use any additional internal spacers in the strut. I can drop the rear spring height down with my adjustable rear perch...but honestly I think it's perfect and rides level when I have something heavy in the trunk!

 

[ItAintRodKnock]

So are you running these on yours?
cant find any other information about these...
trying to confirm before i purchase

What i did come up with is:
Jeep JK- 2007–2018 Jeep Wrangler 2 door
Jeep XJ- 1983-2001 Jeep Cherokee
Part numbers:
JK Front(for VW Fronts)- 52126314AC - $150
XJ Front(for VW Rear) - 52001122 - $96
Summit Auto for both, and free shipping looks to be the cheapest I think

I finally spent a weekend and replaced my previous Moog Lifted kit. I used Black Pipe and they finally failed after many years. Passenger side collapsed at some point, I dont know when.. Anyways, There is some quality information right there in the quoted text.

And here is a video that I put together about the lift:

 

[Nevada_TDI]

have not read this thread in it's entirety recently, but I saw a video recently and it showed how to add spacers with the struts still attached. I am considering attempting this method to add spacers in the front by using a spring compressor and a long reach impact driver. These are rather new struts, and I would really like the added lift to stop scraping parking oy "blocks.

 

[jmodge]

I saw that also. How thick of spacers are you doing? If you’re doing 2” as I did (country roads) you might as well pull your struts for two reasons. It’s not easy to compress them that far and a benchtop compressor is a lot safer, and you will have to pull your ball joints to slot the holes in the control arms to bring your camber back to spec

 

[Rickstah]

I saw that also. How thick of spacers are you doing? If you’re doing 2” as I did (country roads) you might as well pull your struts for two reasons. It’s not easy to compress them that far and a benchtop compressor is a lot safer, and you will have to pull your ball joints to slot the holes in the control arms to bring your camber back to spec

Your comment about slotting the holes is interesting. I have 1.5" spacers and just recently replaced the whole front end and the front-end guy didn't mention needing any more room to adjust the ball joints, does this imply that the extra half inch would be the line in the sand, so either way, spacer or taller spring would be the same thing? Would you just use a drill press and put an extra bit diameter of space in there or what, first-timer for a slotting task as you described, thanks.

 

[jmodge]

Your comment about slotting the holes is interesting. I have 1.5" spacers and just recently replaced the whole front end and the front-end guy didn't mention needing any more room to adjust the ball joints, does this imply that the extra half inch would be the line in the sand, so either way, spacer or taller spring would be the same thing? Would you just use a drill press and put an extra bit diameter of space in there or what, first-timer for a slotting task as you described, thanks.

I did mine with a rat tail file, just elongated them probably less than .030, didn't require significant amount. I had used a machinist square to check camber and couldn't quite reach spec without doing that. Once all done and drivable I took it to be aligned and tech said my camber was ok. And yes, springs or spacer amounts to the same thing, the strut is compressed.
Someone on this site swaged a piece of exhaust pipe and actually welded it on the bottom of the strut to achieve lift AND travel. This was on a beater rally car.

 

[TDIMeister]

Wire diameter is not the only factor in determining the spring rate. The pitch has a huge influence too, and counterintuitively, the wider the pitch (the farther apart the windings like in the stock spring on the left), the LESS the spring rate. So the combination of thicker wire and finer pitch is not a clear indication of the overall stiffness.

 

[Rickstah]

I did mine with a rat tail file, just elongated them probably less than .030, didn't require significant amount. I had used a machinist square to check camber and couldn't quite reach spec without doing that. Once all done and drivable I took it to be aligned and tech said my camber was ok. And yes, springs or spacer amounts to the same thing, the strut is compressed.
Someone on this site swaged a piece of exhaust pipe and actually welded it on the bottom of the strut to achieve lift AND travel. This was on a beater rally car.

Thanks, will keep that in mind. sounds doable, who knows, what is .030 among friends .

 

[Rickstah]

Wire diameter is not the only factor in determining the spring rate. The pitch has a huge influence too, and counterintuitively, the wider the pitch (the farther apart the windings like in the stock spring on the left), the LESS the spring rate. So the combination of thicker wire and finer pitch is not a clear indication of the overall stiffness.

Meister! Long time no talk, good to "see" your face

 

[dhangejr]

Anyone seen stock Tiguan springs on a mk4 wagon? Idparts says they are doe mk5 and 6 and a3.

Complete Spring Set (Tiguan)

Set of 2WD Tiguan springs that are perfect for Mk6 Golf and Jetta lift. These will result in a 1.5" lift in the front and just over a 2" lift in the rear. Also a great option...

www.idparts.com

 

[GlowBugTDI]

I know this isn't the same as the beef on a budget (not trying to totally hijack the thread) but its definitely beefy! Sadly not a TDI either but still interesting. I found this beetle (not mine) while playing on Fb looking at mk4's. looks like the guy just dropped everything a few inches.
I am curious how much lift this technically is as it makes the truck look similarly sized.
If this is your car and your member here I'd love to see a thread on your build.
I thought some of you lifted tdi drivers might find it neat

 

[E.ROY]

Wire diameter is not the only factor in determining the spring rate. The pitch has a huge influence too, and counterintuitively, the wider the pitch (the farther apart the windings like in the stock spring on the left), the LESS the spring rate. So the combination of thicker wire and finer pitch is not a clear indication of the overall stiffness.

Good info but I believe you stated the relationship of pitch vs rate incorrectly.

The farther apart the pitch/windings, the MORE spring rate given the same wire guage. Because the wire points MORE vertical or steeper, so it resists compression easier.

For instance, I have 2000 VR6/auto front (~160 lbs/in) springs, and comparing them them to my 2000 Tdi/5spd front springs (~120 lbs/in), wire guage is same at .490", but the VR6 springs have 5 coils vs 6 coils on Tdi stockers

 

[Chuck78]

Good info but I believe you stated the relationship of pitch vs rate incorrectly.

The farther apart the pitch/windings, the MORE spring rate given the same wire guage. Because the wire points MORE vertical or steeper, so it resists compression easier.

That correction is only half correct.

The farther apart & the steeper the pitch angle of the windings only makes the spring rate stiffer because there is less length of coil spring wire overall, if you were to uncoil the spring and measure the overall length of the wire in straight form. It has absolutely nothing to do with the pitch angle itself affecting the stiffness, only in the amount of coil spring wire stock available to compress.

If you take a 14-inch long spring and cut it in half to make two 7" long coil springs, the spring rate will be approximately double of what the combined length originally was. It's all about the wire diameter and total distance of wire spiraled around in a coil. As well as the specific spring steel material used.

 

[CanadianALH]

I know this is an old thread. Has anyone ever added two extra of those 10mm spacers? I have seen some posts about guys adding two extras. Any ill affects?

 

[dhangejr]

I know this is an old thread. Has anyone ever added two extra of those 10mm spacers? I have seen some posts about guys adding two extras. Any ill affects?

I have heard of people stacking two of those spacers as well. Personally they’re kind of expensive and I don’t see the point.
You could just use some black pipe and make your own custom like spacers. The last ones of black pipe I ran were 2.3 inches and I had zero problems other than kind of a stiff ride. I rallied that car quite a bit too. Nowadays there’s actually some shock extenders available to to prevent that stiff ride.

I’ll be lifting my wagon as soon as I get this LS swap out in my garage and I’ll probably use ID parts spring lift (cuz mine are SHOT) I will use probably use 15MM black pipe to help even the front out

 

[Nuje]

I know this is an old thread. Has anyone ever added two extra of those 10mm spacers? I have seen some posts about guys adding two extras. Any ill affects?

Twice I've added two of those spacers to the two sides of two cars, if "those" spacers are "these" spacers:

I think I paid around $50 total for the four-pack from my local dealer (who does give me pretty good deals). No issues.
Spacers are on the front in both of the images; lower image has wagon springs in the rear vs. the regular ones in the upper photo.