Beater Build: vnt15 1z

[mrchill]

The pipe gets close to the rack. In my case it was tight against the rack and at an odd angle...and unusable one. The peak torque was about 2200 rpm as I recall. It was also 270 lb ft, so imagine that your stock 155 comes even sooner. Its more than enough. And mine was the first tune and thus unfinished.

 

[greengeeker]

What sort of gain/power are you aiming for with your build? I heard fom ryanp that he got his caddy van upto 157bhp there abouts with a similar set up but on an ALH with a tune and nozzles. Also what sort of money is it to get the ecu sorted out? I take it you're getting it chipped and tuned?

Standard RC rates

No real goals power-wise but if it ends up in the 140-150hp/250-270ft-lb range it should be plenty fun to drive.

 

[greengeeker]

Update

From this view it would take a trained eye to notice something isn't normal.

Blue section of hose needed as the stock one was about 1.5" too short.
Original N18 relocated over to boost controller location. I reused the stock lines going across the engine bay to the passenger side. The boost signal going to the ECU remains unchanged as is the upper boost tube going to the intake. EGR cooler bypass visable in this picture as well. Stock turbo outlet hose and pipe.

Normally, the TIP would bolt directly to the intake manifold but as you can see I need to make a 1.5" spacer to bridge the gap. The main point of this picture is to show the top of the TIP which had to be clocked probably 15deg away from the strut tower (counterclockwise as you are looking at it in this picture). It is currently being welded back together - I temporarily held it together with RTV which was surprisingly strong but not enough for me. Oh, pushing the TIP 1.5" closer to the strut tower makes those two bolts much more fun to put on.

Remember, the center section of the vnt turbo is ~1.5" further towards the passenger side so the supply line had to be rebent to make it over to the new location as well as fit around the EGR outlet (now capped off). I also had to trim 1.5" off the original heat shield. As mentioned previously the cold side is clocked to point straight up.

You'll have to make up a new oil line support bracket.

The stock mk4 downpipe fits perfectly: little under 1" to the tunnel and around 2" to the rack. Not necessary but I threw in a mk4 rack heat shield in there just because I had one sitting there. Same story with the CV boot shield. The mk4 downpipe also works great at mating up to the b4 exhaust system- itis a few mm's bigger than the B4 center pipe so it JUST slips on which incidentally is all that is left of this car's exhaust . If you decided to go this route it is the perfect length too. I couldn't since the downpipe had a hole rusted in it (go figure...MN salt) which had to be trimmed off and on went the mk4 exhaust clamp.

 

[GTiTDi]

Awesome I have been thinking about doing this conversion to my 1Z powered GTI. The idea originally came to me from IndigoBlueWagon at the last HO5G...I have been wanting to upgrade to VNT but don't think I need a 17/22...yet

 

[greengeeker]

If you go with anything bigger than a 15 cold side I would just buy a custom steel mount bracket. There wouldn't be much aluminum left if you went with a 17/22!

 

[mech644]

Any updates greengeeker? Very interested in your experience with this setup. I have a 17/22 awaiting install in my Golf and was thinking the 15 might find a good home in my B4; then I saw this thread and my thoughts were confirmed.
Any alternatives to trimming the rubber portion of the mount? Any difference in vibration after rubber removal?

 

[DasTeknoViking]

Let me chime in, cutting the stock engine mount rubber hasn't added any more vibrations or anything into the cabin. I actually replaced a old engine mount with a modified/cut one and it's worked out great for my B4. Less vibrations and way less engine movement. I am running the custom steel bracket as mentioned in the first page, worked like a charm on my 1Z and I got a GT1749VB hanging off it.

Was able to use my stock TIP, but I did cut some slits in the plastic and used a worm clam to get the TIP tight on the turbo. I also cut up my stock boost pipe- aluminum one that goes behind the intake manifold, with a few silicon pipes and elbows I was able to make everything fit and looks very much like stock. I wrapped with header wrap, from DEI my MKIV 2.5" Milltek downpipe. It's fairly snug up in the tunnel opening in the bulk head but it fits and doesn't rub.

VNT and 1Z is a match in heaven, I'm maxing out my VB and stock IC started to leak... Quite a smokey setup I got but the car is a beast. We are talking it ripped my front engine mount into pieces Running TDT tune, ran into a similar situation with another tuner who didn't want to reply to my PMs or Emails.

 

[greengeeker]

Let me chime in, cutting the stock engine mount rubber hasn't added any more vibrations or anything into the cabin. I actually replaced a old engine mount with a modified/cut one and it's worked out great for my B4. Less vibrations and way less engine movement. I am running the custom steel bracket as mentioned in the first page, worked like a charm on my 1Z and I got a GT1749VB hanging off it.

Yup, no more vibration than normal. You aren't cutting much rubber off to clear the actuator so it's not that big of a deal. Looking back, even though modifying the stock aluminum mount was much cheaper I would recommend going the custom steel route. 1) You can R&R the turbo without removal of the bracket 2) You have plenty of room for a larger turbo if you so desire.

As for impressions.
- Jeff said the PP520's were bigger than he prefered as it would be smoky and he was right. It's not a butterfly-killing death cloud but it is a strong haze at WOT. This could probably be cleared up with a better intake and intercooler as MrChill suggests. Could also back off the IQ as it is set at 2.5.

- The torque response is awesome. As the weather is getting colder it turns out it's too awesome for the vr6 clutch. Here's to hoping it has a chance to bed in over the winter and ready to rip in the spring.

I'll let Farmboy (B4 nut) comment as he's now the new owner of this car and has been putting on some miles.

 

[DasTeknoViking]

Really IQ of 2.5 ? I have mine at 4 now and will be doing the hammer mod tomorrow to get my cold start issue figured out. Car misfires on cold start and bodies are cleaned and balanced, and nozzles are fresh and pop tested. My car smokes quite a bit when pushed over 3700 rpm. Was doing a hard run testing out stuff in a deserted area where the road is blocked off and 5th gear from 3700 on it smoked quite a bit not sure where too as I let off around 4800 as the EGT where pretty high up there at 1500F. Need to toy with the IQ a bit, either that or get my FMIC in as on that one run I heard it make bleeding noise.

 

[mech644]

DasTeknoViking- did you eliminate the suitcase muffler? If so is there a ready made pipe available or would I need to get one fab'd?

 

[DasTeknoViking]

I am lucky that there is a Mexican muffler shop near by, they made my exhaust for 100 bux. Bought a Magnaflow 16" long 4" round 2.5" in/out resonator and had them weld it all up. There are no other mufflers or cat on the car, yes it stinks a bit esp when cold... But it's pretty quiet in the car, and has a nice sound to it when going by at wide open throttle. 100 bux included labor to bend the 2.5" pipes and their pipes. I had them curve the tail pipe down so it shoots out on the ground like stock.

 

[JFettig]

IQ of 2.5 is pretty high in my opinion for a tuned car with big nozzles, most I am seeing are in the 5 range - including mine. Bringing it lower just makes it smoke more low down. It does however make cold starts real nice.

Das - log injection timing, you're likely having fueling issues that cause the injection to not advance like it should such as air, popped case pressure valve, restrictions in the fuel lines, etc.

 

[DasTeknoViking]

The car had rough running when cold issues before but okay when it was really cold out, anything over 40F and it fired up fine. I sent my bodies into Kerma and had them clean, flow etc. Then I had 1019s pop tested and pressures set to "stage 2" for more power... Now the cool start around 40F is about as bad as it was before at 30F. Maybe I need to log my CTS and see if there is anything weird there, but then again Mike hooked my up with dynamic idle, and it cuts from about 1200 to 900Rpm once the CTS reads over 110F. My IQ is at 3.8 and I can't find my bloody IP socket from my IP o ring reseal I did last year :/ Need to do the hammer mod to get it up to 4.5-5 per Mikes recommendation, but I think it will make cold starts even harder ?

Now that I got about 2k on the set up I need to do a ton of data logging.

 

[DasTeknoViking]

J: I think I might have a fueling issue, car feels a bit laggy but at 2400 all hell breaks loose. I see 26psi on the gauge at 2k but at 2.5k I get the rush of power. I have been babying it a it but have been playing around a it with it too as its too addictive ! MPG has gone way down lately too, it's in the 38s where I used to hit 50 on the stock motor driving normal. It's hard to drive normal when ya got traffic and idiots all around driving 80-90 every morning....

 

[greengeeker]

I am lucky that there is a Mexican muffler shop near by, they made my exhaust for 100 bux. Bought a Magnaflow 16" long 4" round 2.5" in/out resonator and had them weld it all up. There are no other mufflers or cat on the car, yes it stinks a bit esp when cold... But it's pretty quiet in the car, and has a nice sound to it when going by at wide open throttle. 100 bux included labor to bend the 2.5" pipes and their pipes. I had them curve the tail pipe down so it shoots out on the ground like stock.

Nice.

Exhaust on the beater build: Mk4 downpipe (CAT included), NB center section, NB over axle, mufflerectomy pipe and turndown tip. Total cost = $9 for the tip and 1 exhaust clamp. Mr Whitbread, eat your heart out.

 

[Farmboy]

- The torque response is awesome. As the weather is getting colder it turns out it's too awesome for the vr6 clutch. Here's to hoping it has a chance to bed in over the winter and ready to rip in the spring.

I'll let Farmboy (B4 nut) comment as he's now the new owner of this car and has been putting on some miles.

Not sure what to add . . . As it happens, peak torque seems to come at about 15% higher RPM, around 2200 RPM, maybe 2300 RPM, similar to the experience someone else recounted earlier in the thread. That's just a rough guess, based in large part on when it seems the clutch starts to slip.

Until/Unless I find out it comes with an unacceptable trade-off, I would advise anyone doing a similar build to use a heavier duty clutch than the VR6, or at least don't mention to the tuner than you wouldn't mind having the option to "smoke" tailgaters at will.

 

[DasTeknoViking]

http://www.fourseasontuning.com/index.php?product=702&product_code=K70038-HD-OFE
350 with free shipping, bought mine from them and it rips hard. I had a Valeo VR6 clutch that my buddy gave me from his MK3 VR he never used... My VB destroyed that clutch in no time, I took it easy for about 200 miles and them started to give it some beef.... It started to slip on the first 3-4 run and couldn't hold boost in 5th.

SBC has been awesome, feels lighter than my OEM 420k mile clutch or the Valeo VR clutch.

Seems like I've ironed out my fueling issues, car loves a 5.0 IQ. Starts up fine, idles great and it's very nice n quiet at 70-100 now. I get max boost as early as 1500 rpm and it just rips. With brand new snow tires on it grips very hard, I'm afraid I will break something like an axle or engine mount as it moves so good.