Battling Interior Electrical Issues.

Smalls

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Chambersburg, Pa
TDI
Mk4 Jetta TDI
Need your .02 to point me in the right direction. This is going to be long winded and I'll try to be as accurate as possible. I do not have a Bently, but now I feel the need to invest in one.

In my newly acquired 03' tdi wagon. I've replaced everything in the interior due to smelly items and a mold issue. When I first got the car everything functioned as normal. I dismantled the car, but left the wiring harnesses, relay/fuse blocks and CCM. I then reassembled from two good working donor cars, which everything worked in them as well.

Issue #1:

Up until a few days ago my radio and interior lights functioned properly, when the car was shut off and key removed. Now, I have no interior lights. I have to turn the radio off manually (factory monsoon) and my steering wheel controls are Inop. All stalks (cruise and wipers) function.

I've read about a sticky #451 relay, that controls the above. I haven't taken it out of the car yet to look at the coil and see what's going on. I've read about bad clock springs, but they usually affect the stalks also.

Issue #2:

Ever since I installed a new drivers door panel and master control, the only features that work are the hatch release and fuel door release. The donor door panel and master worked fine in the car it came from. I have no window controls to any windows from the master switch, but each window functions fine on it's respective door, except for the drivers window. The child lock feature is Inop also.

The mirror switch is Inop in all directions. My door locks function correctly on each respective door, but if I hit unlock on the master control, it pops the fuel door and does nothing to the other doors. The lock feature does nothing as well.

I've "wiped" the ccm by dissipating via touching battery cables together. The battery was also out of the car for an extended period of time while I was working on it. If I read the ccm via vcds. It shows codes for pass and drivers windows when master switch is depressed, but that's it. I'll get a screenshot later in the day.

Thoughts?

I'm not sure where to start. I've checked my connections in the drivers door and at the ccm. I've also verified my grounds on the crash bar. I am familiar with a multimeter and electrical theory, I'm trying to get some feedback if someone has had the same/similar issues before.

I'm leaning towards the ccm being bad from being in a damp car for awhile, but I pulled the connectors out when I was cleaning the car and they appeared corrosion free. I haven't troubleshot and wiring yet.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
What DTCs are stored? Chances are your CCM, Steering Wheel Module, and perhaps others can give you some clues, but it sounds like a ground or power relay problem to me.

The CCM doesn't care about what your switch stalks are doing.
 

Rembrant

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Oct 31, 2014
Location
Canada's Ocean Playground
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2013 Golf TDI DSG
...Now, I have no interior lights. I have to turn the radio off manually (factory monsoon) and my steering wheel controls are Inop. All stalks (cruise and wipers) function.

I've read about a sticky #451 relay, that controls the above. I haven't taken it out of the car yet to look at the coil and see what's going on. I've read about bad clock springs, but they usually affect the stalks also.

I'm leaning towards the ccm being bad from being in a damp car for awhile, but I pulled the connectors out when I was cleaning the car and they appeared corrosion free.
I went through a bunch of these electrical problems with my 03 TDI Wagon that was also full of water. If you Google it enough, you will find all kinds of threads where the CCM was suspected as the problem, but you will also see that most of the time it was not. (I too now have a spare 03 CCM in the garage that I didn't need to buy...lol)

If I were you, I'd pull the plastic panel down behind the hood release lever and check all of the plugs and wiring in that area. Due to all the water that was in my 03 wagon, several of those plugs were all green and corroded (they're door wiring connectors). Also, just forward of them, is the main harness...in the vertical run, I had a whole bunch of wires/connectors in there that had all corroded and turned green as well...these are all the power wires for the interior lighting. You will not see a problem in the harness at a glance...you have to peel the tape off of it.

There is a ground lug in that area as well that gets all green and corroded from the water/salt in the floor/carpet.

Rem
 

annieneff

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Jan 13, 2011
Location
Seattle
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1983.5 Westfalia tdi (afn), with flipped 5 speed V6 (dvz) transmission
Along with the 451 relay check the wiring going into the alarm box. I think that's what the black box is just to the left of the steering column under there.
Recently on my '02 jsw alh swap I took the black box out (I almost just threw it away). Had all the same exact symptoms you list up there. I tracked down wiring for a whole day on it and then finally thought to try plugging it back in. Made it all light up and roll like it was supposed to again.

Anyway, check the little black box in there as well in your digging--

Andrew
 

Smalls

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Joined
Mar 23, 2014
Location
Chambersburg, Pa
TDI
Mk4 Jetta TDI
Pulled 451 relay. Examined wires on socket side and all appear to be intact with no corrosion. The relay itself appeared to be in decent shape as well. There are no hotspots or solder cracks on the board.

I also hooked/checked/unhooked the little security box also. I'm assuming that's what it was. Left of steering column, tan and a black connector.
The three plugs at the kick panel were in semi rough shape. Took em apart, cleaned them with contact cleaner and a pick and reassembled. Also verified all grounds have continuity. Cleaned grounds also.

Disassembled drivers side door. When I depress the drivers window switch, the motor clicks but fails to function. It also doesn't register operation in vcds. With the panel and motor hooked and unhooked, nothing changes. The above didn't make a difference either.

After the code screenshot above I cleared all codes and they all returned over time.
 

annieneff

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Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
Seattle
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1983.5 Westfalia tdi (afn), with flipped 5 speed V6 (dvz) transmission
It has to be the 451 relay, the little black box, or something with the ecu. If it was just the wiring in the door (that does fail a certain amount... wiring gets worn and/or corroded) the functions on the steering wheel and sunroof would still work fine.
Maybe it's some weird ground thing somewhere, but as far as systems go, those are all the inputs that control all those different things.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Your CCM looks like this.




Fuses are located HERE on TOP of the relays, not in the fuse box
 
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wonneber

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Monroe, NY, USA
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2014 Jetta Sportwagen, 2014 Tiguan,2003 Jetta 261K Sold but not forgotten
With the mold smell I would think water sat in the car a long time.
It will raise havoc with the electrical system.
In my old rabbits I had a few electrical problems including corroded connectors and a few relays.
The only place I get water in my 03 SJW is from the sun roof drains getting stuck.
These are in the door jam. (both sides)
I just pinch them every month or two or if they are calling for heavy rain.
As you swapped the electrical parts did you see corrosion in the plugs?
I don't like the VW electrical diagrams but if you print all of them out and tape them in a long scroll its a bit easier to trace wires.
Finding the devices and ground points another challenge.
How this helps
Rich W.

Quote:
In my newly acquired 03' tdi wagon. I've replaced everything in the interior due to smelly items and a mold issue. When I first got the car everything functioned as normal. I dismantled the car, but left the wiring harnesses, relay/fuse blocks and CCM. I then reassembled from two good working donor cars, which everything worked in them as well.
 

QuickTD

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Feb 25, 2002
Location
SW Ontario
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2003 Audi A4Q 5spd 2.0 TDI 2056VK R783, 2006 Audi A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI, 2007 A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI
I would check the B+ splice located under the drivers floor carpet. If it is corroded it will knock out all the windows and much of the CCM functionality. You need to remove the drivers kick panel and the dead pedal, then roll the carpet back a bit. The splice is taped into the harness with a clear pvc cap over it. If the carpet has been wet for a while, the splice will be a green ball of corrosion.
 

Smalls

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Mar 23, 2014
Location
Chambersburg, Pa
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Mk4 Jetta TDI
I would check the B+ splice located under the drivers floor carpet. If it is corroded it will knock out all the windows and much of the CCM functionality. You need to remove the drivers kick panel and the dead pedal, then roll the carpet back a bit. The splice is taped into the harness with a clear pvc cap over it. If the carpet has been wet for a while, the splice will be a green ball of corrosion.
Where would the splice be in reference to the three connectors by the hood release? I have everything out and have neatly trimmed the cloth tape off the vertical run up to the pass-through for the door and have yet to see something like that.

It's a bit brisk out, so I do it in spurts :)
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Where would the splice be in reference to the three connectors by the hood release? I have everything out and have neatly trimmed the cloth tape off the vertical run up to the pass-through for the door and have yet to see something like that.
It's a bit brisk out, so I do it in spurts :)
There is no way for a Corroded splice connection in the A-pillar to affect the rear and passenger's side of the car. It's just not wired that way.

The rear doors go to the bottom of the B-pillar

The passenger's side is at the bottom of the A & B pillars

If you look at the DTC list again it all points to the CCM. The CCM is where all the doors converge/meet.
 
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Smalls

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Mk4 Jetta TDI
There is no way for a Corroded splice connection in the A-pillar to affect the rear and passenger's side of the car. It's just not wired that way.

The rear doors go to the bottom of the B-pillar

The passenger's side is at the bottom of the A & B pillars

If you look at the DTC list again it all points to the CCM. The CCM is where all the doors converge/meet.
Roger that.

I look foward to swapping modules tomorrow.
 

Rembrant

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2013 Golf TDI DSG
Where would the splice be in reference to the three connectors by the hood release?
If he's referring to the same connections I was above, they're in the main wire bundle that runs along the corner of the driver's floor, then it turns up and runs vertical up close to the firewall. Just forward of the three little plugs behind the kick panel, the main bundle is running vertically here...it's a big bundle about an inch or more in diameter. Just forward of those plugs, and slightly above (I think) there were six wires all connected together here...all corroded to snot from the car being full of water. I chopped all the bad stuff out, and reconnected all of the wires. This fixed all of my interior lighting and [drivers] door issues. That was an 03 Wagon.

Rem
 
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QuickTD

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2003 Audi A4Q 5spd 2.0 TDI 2056VK R783, 2006 Audi A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI, 2007 A4Q 6spd 2.0 TDI
There is no way for a Corroded splice connection in the A-pillar to affect the rear and passenger's side of the car. It's just not wired that way.
The splice is located down a little further under the carpet. Find the plug feeding the drivers door and follow the red or red white wire (can't remember) down along the door sill. It feeds power to the bus transceiver in the drivers window motor. The transceiver multiplexes all the window/door switches and sends the signals to the CCM. You will get a ton of bus communication codes if the drivers window motor loses power. The splice also supplies a few other interior circuits. I am out of country right now so I don't have access to the diagrams so I cant tell you exactly what they are. Here in Canada this is the "go-to" repair for all window/door electrical trouble due to the drivers floor carpet being always soaked in salt water in the winter.
 
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tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
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Baltimore, MD
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
He's trying a replacement CCM. If that doesn't work have at it. As far as he knows, the car wasn't "full of water". It had mold if you've seen his build thread. I'm not discounting what you guys are contributing, given what we know about his car.
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Matt,

Did you check the metal fuse in position "C"?




There are three positions to the right of all the threaded power studs. A, B & C from left to right. C is for power windows, central locking, heated power mirrors. Measure resistance across the fuse.
 
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tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 31, 2000
Location
Baltimore, MD
TDI
2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Power: try measuring voltage at
T10i/8 - black connector at the lower A-pillar (supply side)

Ground; T10i/4 - black connector a the lower A-pillar to stud
 

Seatman

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Apr 23, 2010
Location
Scotland
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2007 Seat Alhambra 2L tdi
Issue #2:

Ever since I installed a new drivers door panel and master control, the only features that work are the hatch release and fuel door release. The donor door panel and master worked fine in the car it came from. I have no window controls to any windows from the master switch, but each window functions fine on it's respective door, except for the drivers window. The child lock feature is Inop also.

Did you get the door from the same age of car or an older one? There's two systems, 1C and 1J and they're not compatible so your car is 1C because it's newer but if the door module part number starts with 1J it wont work, needs to be 1C.
 

Smalls

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Mar 23, 2014
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Chambersburg, Pa
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Mk4 Jetta TDI
Did you get the door from the same age of car or an older one? There's two systems, 1C and 1J and they're not compatible so your car is 1C because it's newer but if the door module part number starts with 1J it wont work, needs to be 1C.
Hmm.

This door panel came out of an 01. Mine is an 03.
 

Smalls

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Mk4 Jetta TDI
The switch was in 2001 so just make sure your window motor part number is 1C0XXX XXX and not 1J0 XXX XXX
Now that leads me to something else. I did swap window motors and the drivers door panel out of the 01. The original in the 03 was a little slow in operation. I don't believe it's worked since.

Do I have to replace the motor with one out of an 03 or just with the proper part number?
 

tongsli

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Baltimore, MD
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2000 Jetta TDI, 2004, Jetta Wagon TDI PD
Proper part number, starting with 1C0

Did you replace all of the window motors? Or just the driver's motor?
 
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