Bad torque converter?

bypass-21

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Hey guys,

Just wanted to say thank you to everyone from before in my last thread who helped me with my idle and smoke issue on my b5.5, you're advice was solid, especially yours Oilhammer! Now on to my next crisis. So back in August I serviced my 5hp19 transmission since the transmission pump had failed and was dumping all the fluid on the ground. I replaced the filter, pump, fluid, seals, and torque converter from Eriksons for good measure and popped the tyranny back in. I have out about 500-600 miles since the build only doing an oil change and air filter change for good measure. This morning I got the dread F$%k you light on in all its money hungry glory and the code i pulled was 17125/P0741-"torque converter clutch stuck off/no power being transmitted". I cleared it just to make sure it was current and sure enough it came back on in 2 trips. I was in such denial I must have reset the light 3 times today hoping to would stay off 😅. I called Eriksons and they were just as stumped as me, he said they have never had a torque converter they serviced fail especially in such short mileage, but anything is possible. My wonder is what are the chances that it's a valve body issue or just the tcc solenoid that decided today was the day to fail? I performed a stall test just to confirm some information, in drive the engine stall speed is just shy of 3000rpm and in reverse, the stall speed jumps to just a bit over 2000 rpm before it goes down to about just about or under the 2000rpm mark, I ran the test twice during the day snd received the same results in either test. Driving wise it shifts around under the 3000rpm mark snd down shifting is a bit rough but drivable. Im really stumped and my biggest fear is going to be having to replace the torque converter.

Thanks to any and all advice, also Happy Thanksgiving to everyone and their families!😁
 
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Mozambiquer

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Have you verified tranny fluid level?
 

bypass-21

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Have you verified tranny fluid level?
Not yet since the issue just happened today. But looking at it i see no visible leaks and the trans was topped off after it was serviced back in August. But ill definitely check it out to rule it out completely!
 

thundershorts

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Rough downshift? That jumped out as definitely abnormal. Was it that way before you got the code? Did you describe that to Natt at Eriksson? You did use a new zf pump which would have come with a new bush. Almost sounds like pressure drop in hyd circuit to lockup clutch in tc. Pressure for lockup passes through bush into tc.
 

bypass-21

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Rough downshift? That jumped out as definitely abnormal. Was it that way before you got the code? Did you describe that to Natt at Eriksson? You did use a new zf pump which would have come with a new bush. Almost sounds like pressure drop in hyd circuit to lockup clutch in tc. Pressure for lockup passes through bush into tc.
Matt from Eriksons said the same thing, its super strange. Everything from when the rebuild was done was purchased from Eriksons and I make sure specifically they were ZF. The harsh down shifting looks like it goes away when the check engine light comes on and usually after 2 trips. Me and Matt thought the same thing with the pressure concern which led us to a possible lock up solenoid or valve body failure? I did note to him that when I first opened the transmission up, all the bolts on the valve body were super loose where you could back them off with 2 fingers and no effort. Those bolts of course were torqued back to spec during re-assembly.
 

bypass-21

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Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

So thinking it over, the torque converter for Eriksons has less then 600 miles on it and has been in the car for less then 4 months. What are the chances that the tcc solenoid/valve body failed? The car has 167k on it so I was thinking maybe its possible? I was talking with Matt yesterday and we were trying to figure out what else could make this code come up outside of a physical torque converter, and the only other thing that comes to mind between the both of us is the torque converter lock up solenoid. Eriksons said they have a new tcc solenoid for 170 or a valve body for 450 which would probably be the better route if it comes down to it. Before I dump more money into the trans, I was thinking i might drop the pan and see if that solenoid and bore can be cleaned, any chance anyone knows which solenoid on the valve body is for torque converter lock up as well as any success with this?

Thank you guys!
 

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The valve body bores can be worn so I'd recommend you drop pan first to see if any chunkies. brown silt is normal at that miles. The valve body is probably a better choice as you now it will be right. I suspect your problems are in the vb, dampers would affect downshifts as well, New screen i guess comes with vb. I'd cut the old one to see how much gunk was trapped in it, clogging flow. happy thanksgiving, John
 

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Top Post Dawg
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I saw you already replaced the screen and cleaned the pan. I guess you could just drop the vb, and replace the seals that connect it to the trans casing, the ones that look like little tubes.They tend to get hard over time and could explain the pressure loss.
 

bypass-21

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I saw you already replaced the screen and cleaned the pan. I guess you could just drop the vb, and replace the seals that connect it to the trans casing, the ones that look like little tubes.They tend to get hard over time and could explain the pressure loss.
When i was replacing the transmission pump i ended up replacing those seals since like you said, they were hard as rocks.
 

bypass-21

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Hi guys! Hope Thanksgiving was great for all!

So today i took my Scan tool to the car and took it for a drive to watch what the TCM was seeing before it would throw the code. What alarmed me after the drive was the temp of the transmission 217ºF! Im no trans expert, but i dont think anything over 200 degrees can be good!

Attached here are the links for 4 videos i made while driving. Before each video, i would clear the code since once the CEL comes on, i can see the PID for the Torque converter remain as open.

Test drive 1

Test drive 2

Test drive 3

Test drive 4

What's funny is that i never get a TC lock condition, maybe for a quick second but i always get TC Reg and that's usually the highest it stays The other strange thing is that when the car down shifts, i feel it , like a slight to moderate "Thunk" that was never there before that leads me to think my issue is either solenoid and or valve body. Monday im going to start off by checking and or topping the fluid as high as it could go and then possibly order the Valve body from Erikson's if anything else, unless anyone sees something in the videos that would have them think thats not it.


Thank you so much everyone!
 

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Top Post Dawg
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Here a a couple thoughts: When you changed the hard seals, did all come out in one piece so no possibility of a rubber bit clogging up a port? If you after discussing with Eriksson, decide to go vb route first drain the fluid and strain it though a paint strainer to see if any flakes/bits of fresh clutch material. The tc clutch material is thin and if it failed might show up. Fluid is new so it could be reused. The thunk could be from the drivetrain, not from trans. I'd also consider sending your vb to them before opening it up yourself so they can analyze the problem. Last dumb question, did you try switching in a known good tcm?
 

bypass-21

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Here a a couple thoughts: When you changed the hard seals, did all come out in one piece so no possibility of a rubber bit clogging up a port? If you after discussing with Eriksson, decide to go vb route first drain the fluid and strain it though a paint strainer to see if any flakes/bits of fresh clutch material. The tc clutch material is thin and if it failed might show up. Fluid is new so it could be reused. The thunk could be from the drivetrain, not from trans. I'd also consider sending your vb to them before opening it up yourself so they can analyze the problem. Last dumb question, did you try switching in a known good tcm?
When I changed the seals, they all came out as one piece. When I got the new seals for Eriksons I matched them up to the old seals to make sure they were the same. After speaking with Eriksons recently, outside of topping off thr fluid and hoping for the best, it seems the valve body is thr only logical option outside of a new torque converter from them. Here's hoping I just topped the fluid off wrong 🤞🤞
 

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Top Post Dawg
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Still strain and save the fluid looking for flakes.
 

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Top Post Dawg
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I don't think you could have topped it up wrong, even a bit low, the screen is submerged and it wouldn't be cavitating. After they check your vb, they will be able to determine if its the culprit.
 

bypass-21

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Well guys I took the pan off and well, I think now for sure the torque converter is likely cooked. Makes me wonder how though? Attached is a video I make as soon as the. Pan came off. The magnets are alos loaded with what looks like clutch material. Yikes

 

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Top Post Dawg
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The metal on your magnets most likely is not from tc, but from other clutch packs. Its probably from having overheated at the time the tc failed originally, but not for certain. Ask if Eriksson still has pickup/ delivery in your area as your best bet is let them fix it. When you get it back, it will be good for another 150k or so.
 

bypass-21

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The metal on your magnets most likely is not from tc, but from other clutch packs. Its probably from having overheated at the time the tc failed originally, but not for certain. Ask if Eriksson still has pickup/ delivery in your area as your best bet is let them fix it. When you get it back, it will be good for another 150k or so.
I had a transmission shop give me some advice on what I found, they said they recommended the transmission be replaced with the level of metal that when through the transmission. Its amazing how the only symptom of failure was the p0741 😯

I talked to Eriksons and they said they are willing to replace the transmission at their expense and take my old unit back to make sure the torque converter was the cause of failure. Not gonna lie, Eriksons has been a total blessing during this whole thing. Im going to send them the video since and arranging the replacement.
 

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Top Post Dawg
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I think the first time I dealt with them was around 1976. There might be someone else out there as good, but i don't know who they might be. When the zf 4hp-22's were all failing, Ericsson figured out the design defect and fixed them. That only one example of many. Your trans will be as good as, or better than it came out of the zf factory originally. They do other great work as well, turbos, cyl head welding, etc,etc. I'm interested in hearing the full report on your trans failure. First thing they probably will do is put the tc on their test bench before cutting it open.
 

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Top Post Dawg
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Rebuilding automatic transmissions is interesting and can be fun. It can also be frustrating, when parts are no longer available on older units. Clean fluid is the holy grail for the health of them. Custom valve bodies, etc.
 
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