I have been reading a lot of threads about timing issues. My problem is the error message on the timing graph. It reads "Timing is too advanced to be plotted!" I tried to retard the timing by moving the pump toward the radiator. When I do, the engine smokes, stumbles and stalls. I went back and checked mechanical timing. Cam and IP were right on. The flywheel was off a tooth(ring gear vs TDC mark, not TB tooth). Reinstalled it and it is now dead on. Started it and it still has the same problem. What's next? any ideas? I read that some are moving the IP belt a tooth. Is that ok for the 1Z? Please help. Thanks
B4V with timing issues
- Thread starter Dave128
- Start date
You are able to see the flywheel mark OK?
After you "reinstalled it" (hoping this means you re-set the position of the belt, relative to crank/cam/IP using locking tools on the cam and in the IP hole), it ran just the same?
Usually means you got something wrong.
crank at TDC,
Cam locked with lock plate?
IP - do you have the pin inserted in the hole correctly?
After you "reinstalled it" (hoping this means you re-set the position of the belt, relative to crank/cam/IP using locking tools on the cam and in the IP hole), it ran just the same?
Usually means you got something wrong.
crank at TDC,
Cam locked with lock plate?
IP - do you have the pin inserted in the hole correctly?
Hi Windex,
Thanks for the response.
The timing mark is easy to see. I recently installed a new clutch/flywheel package.
Reinstalled meant removing and starting over.
I know it usually means I have something wrong. I've installed timing belts many times and this is the first time I have had issues.
Cam lock with plate.
IP with pin correctly in the hole.
I am at a loss.
Thanks for the response.
The timing mark is easy to see. I recently installed a new clutch/flywheel package.
Reinstalled meant removing and starting over.
I know it usually means I have something wrong. I've installed timing belts many times and this is the first time I have had issues.
Cam lock with plate.
IP with pin correctly in the hole.
I am at a loss.
JETaah
Vendor , w/Business number
How does the car start? Easily and then starts to fail?
Any idea how many miles are on the injectors/nozzles?
Injector #3 nozzle could be on its way out (or they all could be). The ECU determines the start of injection with it. If the injector is opening at way to low of pressure that means that it reaches the opening pressure sooner than spec. (advanced)
Any idea how many miles are on the injectors/nozzles?
Injector #3 nozzle could be on its way out (or they all could be). The ECU determines the start of injection with it. If the injector is opening at way to low of pressure that means that it reaches the opening pressure sooner than spec. (advanced)
turbodieseldyke
Veteran Member
Try advancing the IP. When the graph says "too advanced", it means simply "out of range", and it usually too retarded.
Moving the IP one tooth in either direction won't hurt anything. You just need to find the sweet spot that'll make it run.
Agree with above. The 1Z / AHU engines are a bit more fiddly to get the pump timing correct. It almost easier to install the belt with the cam locked, the pin out of the IP hole, and then tension the belt bringing the IP alignment hole inline with the hole behind it.
ALHs are easier as the slots in he IP pulley allow it to slack slightly when the belt goes on, and then line up once the tension is set on the belt.
ALHs are easier as the slots in he IP pulley allow it to slack slightly when the belt goes on, and then line up once the tension is set on the belt.
I think I want to advance it a little more and I am out of adjustment. What's the easiest way to advance the IP a tooth or two? I was planning to mark the belt and IP pully but wasn't quite sure which direction I need to move it. thanks in advance.
Vince Waldon
Top Post Dawg
Just a note, and you may already be aware, that you are advancing the *static* timing.... aka the physical timing that the engine uses when starting. Once the engine starts the ECU controls the advance *dynamically* using internal maps, independent of where the static timing setting sits between the two lines, and the static timing setting becomes irrelevant (as long as it is within range of where the ECU needs it to be, of course).
This is why you'll hear the engine sound change a bit (more rattle) when you go into the timing graph; the ECU is being put into Basic Settings mode and turns off any additional dynamic advance.
I mention this because sometimes folks hope they will gain engine performance by getting the timing dot closer and closer to the advanced line.. but really the only impact is on starting... in cold weather. Which of course can be important as well.
Changing the dynamic timing maps for performance reasons requires a software change aka a tune.
This is why you'll hear the engine sound change a bit (more rattle) when you go into the timing graph; the ECU is being put into Basic Settings mode and turns off any additional dynamic advance.
I mention this because sometimes folks hope they will gain engine performance by getting the timing dot closer and closer to the advanced line.. but really the only impact is on starting... in cold weather. Which of course can be important as well.
Changing the dynamic timing maps for performance reasons requires a software change aka a tune.
JETaah
Vendor , w/Business number
Moving the pulley to another tooth may not be a bad idea even if you adjust the pump to same injection timing that it is now.
I imagine that the injector pipes are under stress if the pump is adjusted right up against the end of the slots in the bracket.
I imagine that the injector pipes are under stress if the pump is adjusted right up against the end of the slots in the bracket.
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Vince, thanks for the input. One thing I did notice is that there is little to no change between normal and Basic mode. Not sure why?
JETaah, that is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation.
Still need to know which way I need to move it a tooth, toward firewall or radiator.
JETaah, that is exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation.
Still need to know which way I need to move it a tooth, toward firewall or radiator.
Lug_Nut
TDIClub Enthusiast, Pre-Forum Veteran Member
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- idi: 1988 Bolens DGT1700H, the other oil burner: 1967 Saab Sonett II two stroke
The ECU timing adjustment has enough adjustment range to get to full 'advance' and to full 'retard' when the basic is anywhere between the top and bottom of the four lines.
Your basic setting is close enough to middle of the range so the ECU has to make very little additional shift to get to the ideal.
There's little to no change because there's little to no ECU adjustment needed.
I'd call it 'done'. and not bother with further adjustment.
Your basic setting is close enough to middle of the range so the ECU has to make very little additional shift to get to the ideal.
There's little to no change because there's little to no ECU adjustment needed.
I'd call it 'done'. and not bother with further adjustment.
Vince Waldon
Top Post Dawg
If the only remaining concern is tension on the injector lines you can loosen all eight connections to relieve any stress in the lines, allow them to reposition themselves as needed, and then retighten and check for leaks. The tubing is designed to handle the geometry of wherever in the slot the pump ends up being rotated, and this approach might be simpler than resetting the timing belt position and redoing the timing from scratch.
IIRC loosening and then retightening the injector lines is actually SOP whenever the pump is moved, but it's been a while since I've blown the dust off my MK3 manual.
EDIT: just for fun grabbed the manual... cough cough now covered with dust....and yup pg 23b-14 step 4 of the timing adjustment proceedure "loosen all 8 connections" yada yada yada.
IIRC loosening and then retightening the injector lines is actually SOP whenever the pump is moved, but it's been a while since I've blown the dust off my MK3 manual.
EDIT: just for fun grabbed the manual... cough cough now covered with dust....and yup pg 23b-14 step 4 of the timing adjustment proceedure "loosen all 8 connections" yada yada yada.
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