B4:TOTALLY BIZZARE PROBLEM, NEED HELP!!! WIFE HAS HAD ENOUGH WITH MY CAR!

Andrei Rinea · Dec 14, 2002

I feel your pain... had many troubles with my TDI (B4 Passat 1Z engine 83kmiles) and had times when I only thought: "You stupid #@O$Y*(@#$@#&$@#$ @%#*YY*%@*(%@#*(%@#%@# $%@#*$)*(#@$ car! I am gonna sell you next day"

But then I pulled myself together again and troubles didn't have the guts to show up again... small problems like fried bulbs or stuff like that.. worn bearings... nothing serious... except jumping timing belt due to serious engine design fault but fixed it for good.

BOTTOM LINE: Pull yourself together and fight it!

About the specific problem:
The engine moving during throttle doesn't hurt any such pipes as the injection pump is mounted on the engine and moves along with him.

Check the injection pump at a good service not stealerships which suck all over the world (Romania, USA, Canada, Belgium and so on).
Could also be the injector #3 end the one which can cause the high pressure pipe to crack?
Check other moving parts (hood? I doubt but...) that could hit the pipe...

That's all I can "help" you with...

GOOD LUCK and keep us posted as it goes

dieseldorf · Dec 14, 2002

riddei, have you had your timing (pump manually moved) adjusted in the past 12 months?

riddei · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by dieseldorf:
riddei, have you had your timing (pump manually moved) adjusted in the past 12 months?

Yes, at PeterV's at the NE timing belt GTG 6 months or so ago. Where we had the show and tell with the PiperX seives.

I've put on about 14K miles since then.

Could also be the injector #3 end the one which can cause the high pressure pipe to crack?

Hmmm... Never thought of that. If I have a clogged or malfunctioning # 3 injector, could that put out enough back pressure on the line to cause it to burst?

PeterV is putting the new Kerma nozzles on his A4, I was going to buy his older OEM .205 nozzles. Perhaps I need to do this sooner rather than later. At 134K miles, it may be that I have a clogged (malfunctioning) injector.

Since the #3 injector has the sensor on it, would that throw a code?

It is amazing that it broke in the same exact place!

Oo-v-oO · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by riddei:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by dieseldorf:
riddei, have you had your timing (pump manually moved) adjusted in the past 12 months?

Yes, at PeterV's at the NE timing belt GTG 6 months or so ago. Where we had the show and tell with the PiperX seives.

I've put on about 14K miles since then.
<hr /></blockquote>I know where Dieseldorf is going with this.....

If you mechanically adjust the timing (by moving the injection pump), Bentley says you must loosen both ends of each injection line and then retighten them, to relieve any twisting stress on the lines. Perhaps this was not done when the timing was adjusted? I would think that whomever adjusted the timing would know to do this, but perhaps they forgot?
If this is the case, buy another line yourself and change it out. It's not that hard to do and you will save yourself a few bucks.
If all else fails, how much are you asking for the car as it sits? I'm in the next state over and would like a TDI for the wife....

Oh, wait, I just read your previous post. Duh.
You probably know the lines need to be loosened and retightened already. Looks like this was replaced after the timing was set, too.
Do you still have the spare set of lines from Tomo? Replace #3 yourself and don't take it to the dealer.
Not sure why it would break so soon. Odd.
Still interested in the car if you don't want to fix it.

-Lee

[ December 14, 2002, 18:32: Message edited by: Oo-v-oO ]

dieseldorf · Dec 14, 2002

Originally posted by Oo-v-oO:
[QBI know where Dieseldorf is going with this.....

I would think that whomever adjusted the timing would know to do this, but perhaps they forgot?
[/QB]

Lee, either "forgot" or was too busy with the waiting line of vehicles. I wasn't going to be the one to make the accusation.

riddei · Dec 14, 2002

If this is the case, buy another line yourself and change it out.

That's the whole point!!! This injector line was just replaced 2 weeks ago. The brand new one (same exact one) broke again!!!

I know it would be easy to replace. It is going back to the stealer, cause they replaced that line just 2 weeks ago. I had the car towed there the last time because it was a fair distance, and diesel was peeing all over.

The question is... Why did the 2nd line break? Just seems weird!!!

I'll let you know how much when the time comes

dieseldorf · Dec 14, 2002

[ December 15, 2002, 04:55: Message edited by: dieseldorf ]

Boundless · Dec 14, 2002

Ian,

A dealer has lots of 'splainin and fixin' to do!!!!

Ian, where and in what direction was the crack? For both pipes.

By direction I mean was it along the pipe or across the diameter?

BTW, if the #3 injector was so plugged up, I think the car would have obvious performance issues.

riddei · Dec 14, 2002

I do have the lines from Tomo. I could just change the line (again). But I'm afraid that that one will just blow out. I would like to get to the bottom of this!!!

If another line had blown I would just say they all need to be changed. But the same one, in the same place, seems suspect!

riddei · Dec 14, 2002

By direction I mean was it along the pipe or across the diameter?

Al, The break is accross the diameter of the injector line. If it was to keep spliting, it whould sever completely.

It is in the same exact place. Just above the nut that secures it to the injector.

Boundless · Dec 14, 2002

Ian, I think that type of break at that location means the joint wasn't properly stress relieved.

The original pipe could be chalked up to age.... you did get 130k out of it. But the new one.... uh ugh.

The dealer has some splainin' to do after they replace it at no charge to you!

[ December 14, 2002, 19:19: Message edited by: Boundless ]

riddei · Dec 15, 2002

Ok, please read this link...

Broken fuel line!

The same thing happened again

!

...To the same, brand new, #3 injector pipe.

***!!!

This can't be a coincidence. Something must be broken and torqueing the injector pump while driving (I guess

).

At first I thought broken motor mount, but that would probably move the whole engine as a unit.

Maybe the injector pump itself is loose, as when you change the timing on the 1Z engine.

Perhaps there is a broken fuel injection pump bracket.

After I started to smell a strong diesel smell (again), I checked under the hood. There was diesel pissing out the side of the #3 injector pipe, just before it joins the injector. It is cracked in the same location as before.

I wasn't far from home so I drove, intead of being towed. The car ran terribly, and could barely keep speed.

My wife is really unimpressed, as she was with me both times. The car has 134K miles, we just put a new bilstien TC suspension in, had all 4 brakes,roters and wheel bearings replaced, had the broken fuel line during Thanksgiving, the A/C compressor is broken, and now this

!

I hoped to have this car for a long time, and don't want a new one.

The car will be going to the stealership that it was towed to the last time (cause' the put the fuel line in). Hopefully someone will have some ideas befor Monday. I am not impressed with this stealership.

riddei · Dec 15, 2002

Boundless,

I agree that is why this is going back to the stealership today. all the pipes were (are)original except the #3. Knowing the stealership they will not have any explanation. I will be expecting that at least the new pipe will be replaced for free.

I just pray that it doesn't happen again!

If it does, I will really be crazed.

dieseldorf · Dec 15, 2002

Ian, did the dealership have the new line in inventory?

dzcad90 · Dec 15, 2002

Check that the injector is tight in the head. Have a helper rev the engine in the dark and hold a flashlight so the beam shines across the 4 injectors about 12" above them. If you see exhaust, the compression of the engine is pushing the injector up and this is stressing the line.

Boundless · Dec 15, 2002

Or you could just use a torque wrench.

riddei · Dec 15, 2002

Tom the dealership did not have the line in inventory. They were able to order it overnight, the last time.

More to add to the story...

I drove the car to the dealership. It's about 4 or 5 miles. By the time I got to the dealership the car was running really rough. Opened the hood and the injector line was completely severed.

I will ask the dealership to check id the injector is tight as described by dzcad90.

The fact that the line broke cleanly in half has me thinking. This is just weird!

Boundless · Dec 15, 2002

Ian,

Something else to consider..... there are braces that fasten and support the pipes between the ends. If these braces are missing, the pipe could be vibrating between the ends, which would put a pretty good cyclic bending load on the end of the pipe, right where you say it broke.

Check to make sure all these braces are in place. Hopefully you remember where they were.

dieseldorf · Dec 15, 2002

Originally posted by riddei:

I drove the car to the dealership. It's about 4 or 5 miles. By the time I got to the dealership the car was running really rough. Opened the hood and the injector line was completely severed.

Wow, it's amazing that you could keep the car running. Don't you have fuel sprayed everywhere???

riddei · Dec 15, 2002

The entire egine compartment and all of the components were saturated with diesel.

a cloud of unspent fuel followed me.

Very unhappy!

Oo-v-oO · Dec 15, 2002

MAKE SURE you clean up the diesel which has spewed all over the rubber components under the hood, ASAP. Soapy water works pretty well. Diesel EATS rubber hoses not meant to come in contact with it, like those expen$ive radiator hoses!

Probably one reason the engine was running so rough other than the fact that it was only hitting on 3 out of 4 cylinders is that the #3 injector is the one with the needle lift sensor. The ECU was deprived of that info.

-Lee

riddei · Dec 16, 2002

Probably one reason the engine was running so rough other than the fact that it was only hitting on 3 out of 4 cylinders is that the #3 injector is the one with the needle lift sensor. The ECU was deprived of that info.

Actually that makes a lot of sence. I was surprized as to "how bad" the car was running. Very intersting.

I will clean up the diesel ASAP when I get the car back.

[ December 16, 2002, 05:13: Message edited by: riddei ]

Drivbiwire · Dec 16, 2002

Inspect the mounting bolts for the injection pump. If one of them is loose it will cause unexplained broken fuel lines.

Also like DZ said inspect the #3 injector to make sure its secure.

DB

dzcad90 · Dec 19, 2002

Any word on this car?

riddei · Dec 19, 2002

The dealer has not even looked at the car

.

They tell me there are no injector lines in the United States

. They are ordering it from the Father Land.

I know I'll get flamed for not changing this line myself (I do have Tomo's part). However, I want to get an answer from them. They put the new injector line on 2 weeks ago. It broke.

For now I am driving one of their loaners. I'm hoping that rushes them along...

Little part, big problem

dieseldorf · Dec 19, 2002

Originally posted by riddei:
They are ordering it from the Father Land.

riddei, that sux. You will have experienced severe diesel withdrawal by the time your car is back on the road.

riddei · Dec 19, 2002

Yes it does suk. But after reading about Natescapes bucking Passat, I'm counting my blessings.

They gave me a tired Mazda 626 that smells like an old ash tray for a loaner.

I'm sure that with Christmas the injector pipe will be here in a jiffy

.

I took the loaner so that they remember my car whenever another customer asks for one

.

[ December 19, 2002, 13:17: Message edited by: riddei ]

Karmann-diesel · Dec 31, 2002

Maybe you don't want to say.. but are you working with one of the Morong dealerships on this? I've dealt with 4 dealers in Maine & am still trying to sort out which is best for TDI service. Thanks

saabguru · Jan 2, 2003

Your mechanic is incompetent. Fire him immediately.

mickkirk · Jan 4, 2003

riddei-
Mickkirk checking in. Let me know if I can be of any assistance to you as a go-fer. I'm still in Bath and will be busy with our move to Pownal in the next two weeks but I might be able to lend a (less experienced) hand if you need it.
I suspect that you're going to Morong Brunswick whose service department has vastly improved (IMO) with the addition of the big guy named Fred handling all VW service. If and when you take it back there, ask that your rig be worked on by Cain Gideon. He is THE man as far as I'm concerned and I have never had a problem with his work. This guy is a total thinker. Good luck. Yeah, it's a mystery. Peace and hope to see your grey BBS clad rig on the roads of mid-Coast in the near future. -mickkirk

B4:TOTALLY BIZZARE PROBLEM, NEED HELP!!! WIFE HAS HAD ENOUGH WITH MY CAR!

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