B4 suddenly running rough, weird injector balance

[Abacus]

Well, I pulled the turbo and the shaft does have some movement. The vanes were hitting the sides but not due to impact or foreign object debris. The picture on the left is from when it was new and the one on the right is today.

Oil leaked out of the inlet side when I had it set on its side as well. Not sure if that's normal but I don't remember other ones doing it.

And I had to run for an exhaust stud to install the old turbo (the original one with 442K on it), but noticed it's cracked around the wastegate port. I've never seen that before. Not much I can do about it since I don't have a spare turbo. Or maybe I do on the spare engine in my barn in the next town. I don't think that one was blown.

So tomorrow I'm going to finish installing the old turbo, prime it, and see how it goes. If it comes out of the issue, then I'll go from there. If not I'll regroup.

But either way I need to fix the fuel line on the wagon. I bought some compression fittings that should work. The plan is to disconnect the fuel lines from the fuel filter and put light pressure to the feed and light suction to the return, to see which one leaks under the car.

Never a dull day with a B4. I LONG for dull days now....

 

[jdulle]

Too bad all this is happening in the winter!

 

[Abacus]

You're not kidding.

No change in the engine with the old turbo. Next up is to find a new compression adapter for my compression tester and check the compression (old adapter snapped in half). With the oil that was in the intercooler, I'm thinking the engine has a bent rod.

If that's the case, the car is history. I have a spare engine but I have no desire to put it in. Quite frankly I'm burned out from all the wrenching and am looking to get something more reliable. I want to do other things with my time and wrenching is last on the list. In all likelihood, it won't be a TDI.

If it is a bent rod, I'll make someone a deal for the car and spare engine. In all likelihood I'll keep the wagon and run it when I can but I just can't rely on them anymore. Too many little issues and the rust is a constant battle. I'm tired.

 

[greenskeeper]

no flu shot for me.....ever.

abacus if you quit the TDI scene...it's been a good run.

rust is what made me sell my old 98....

...and getting into another 3/4 ton powerstroke to protect myself from all the DOPES on their phones not paying attention while driving

The new TDIs are just too complicated with the emissions BS from the EPA (employment prevention agency) to be worthwhile for the average wrencher

 

[Stromaluski]

You're not kidding.

No change in the engine with the old turbo. Next up is to find a new compression adapter for my compression tester and check the compression (old adapter snapped in half). With the oil that was in the intercooler, I'm thinking the engine has a bent rod.

If that's the case, the car is history. I have a spare engine but I have no desire to put it in. Quite frankly I'm burned out from all the wrenching and am looking to get something more reliable. I want to do other things with my time and wrenching is last on the list. In all likelihood, it won't be a TDI.

If it is a bent rod, I'll make someone a deal for the car and spare engine. In all likelihood I'll keep the wagon and run it when I can but I just can't rely on them anymore. Too many little issues and the rust is a constant battle. I'm tired.

If I can make a suggestion... Go ahead and buy another car. Then let all the TDIs sit until you're ready to mess with them. I enjoy working on cars a LOT more when I'm not working on a car that I have to get back together so that I can drive it to work. When I have other cars sitting around that I can drive if I need to, it makes working on a car much more enjoyable.

 

[Abacus]

I'm of that mindset now, Andrew. I researched vehicles last night and am going to a dealership today. I loathe a car payment but right now I loathe working on cars even more.

I haven't had a car payment in 16 years but all good things must end.

I'm thinking of a slightly used but low mileage Mazda or Hyundai, nothing 'American' and certainly no VW's.

 

[aja8888]

You're not kidding.

Too many little issues and the rust is a constant battle. I'm tired.

I've been doing the same routine with old cars for years (like you!). My 1971 Beetle restoration finally did it for me. I've come to the conclusion that working on old cars, whether you do it for a hobby or to just drive them, is just something that should be done out of necessity. Once I saw your final two words above, I just realized that I am tired too.

Although no car payment here (retired and saved well), I'm driving a 2017 Jetta S 1.4 L automatic and my wife is driving a 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe. Everything is still under warranty, although I still do the easy stuff.

My advice: Find something simple and reliable that fits your needs.

 

[Steve Addy]

Maybe it's just my anti-winter attitude talking but I can agree with pieces of what everyone is saying here. I have some energy to do things but it's intermittent and not enough to undertake a big project of any kind.

Last year I cycled over 7000 miles and raced in about a dozen races and I enjoy it. I don't think I've ever been involved in an activity like that before, except for running, which didn't engage me with other people in the community like cycling does. I will probably keep doing this unless I go down again from another woodchuck. Besides, at my age it's tough to find friends if you don't have many, and cycling makes that happen. People change over time and what they want to do and devote their precious time to does also.

At any rate, I will obviously continue to maintain the wagon and the Mk3 as much as I can, and I will have the deficiencies in the rear floor of the Mk3 taken care of, but as I've told others, my time in the garage doing big projects has come to an end. That was one reason I bought this house with the small 1.5 car space that couldn't possibly do much more than change oil. Unfortunately the other house never did sell so I have that 720' space at my disposal all the time...

Actually, the wagon project would never have been undertaken had it not been for the need to have a vehicle that could transport a bike (inside) while also providing space for some bike spares and tools plus my luggage, and travel efficiently and for long periods without stopping!

If not for that need I would be completely back in the MK3 all the time. In fact when I started looking for wagons I was looking at B5.5 1.8T MT wagons because the premium for a B5.5 TDI wagon (with AT to boot) was way more than it should have been, especially for a car with a junky AT.

Besides that I really want to concentrate on getting moved south at some point, I'm tired of winter too!

Steve

 

[oilhammer]

I think the A4 platform car is overall a far better car in most regards, and they still have a lot of parts still available, should you need them.

My ALH is so reliable, I have to put an alert on my phone to remind me to check the oil. Truth is, my BHW has been pretty reliable too. The AWM needs some love, although it too has never broken down.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

ALHs are great, I love them. But Mark, if you're looking for something that's relatively new, and has a good warranty I don't know why you wouldn't consider a bought-back 2015 TDI. People think these cars are complex and difficult to maintain, just as we did when the ALH was introduced. Remember that? But I think we're going to learn that they deliver good economy and power, last well, and with the warranty that VW is offering, it's hard to go very wrong. You should drive one. You might even find a Jetta Sedan with a manual. GSWs with manuals seem scarce. I'm enjoying my GSW. Just drove it to Detroit for the auto show and it got nearly 43 MPG on the return trip, running at 75-80, 4 people and luggage in the car. And snow tires. Not bad.

 

[Abacus]

To be honest I'm kind of fed up with VW. I hope some of their engineers have nightmares for life with the crap they pulled in some areas. I sincerely wish them ill-will. My older brother bought a 2015 TDI SEL with the DSG and loves it. I honestly don't have the desire for another VW but may give his a drive.

I am headed out in the next few days to look at some slightly used Kia Optimas. I have yet to drive one but they're 1/2 the price of the 2015 TDI's and have a better warranty, but still get OK mileage. My needs have changed going from driving 38K a year down to around 20K. I called my mechanic (yes, even those of us who wrench have mechanics) and he recommended them, saying they've come a long way and are the most trouble free cars they see. Time will tell. I'm still hoping for the Sorento diesel but won't get my hopes up.

But I did look for a 2015 GSW TDI in a manual and there was one I could find in the country, and it was big money (I think it was in the midwest).

 

[nh nam vet]

Abacus, You and your family is all that matters. VAG has deceived the world.

You can leave VW's & TDI's in your rear view mirror with no issues. Live your life. Jeff

 

[tdidieselbobny]

I know you said probably no VW, but many dealers still have '17 leftovers- One dealer near me had a Jetta 1.4t manual for a little over $14k. I was pretty happy with my '16 when I had it -25k miles in 10 months and it returned close to TDI mpg's ... I'll check my fuelly to see what my mileage was... just checked- my avg. was 39.3 and best was 46.4...

 

[Abacus]

I'll still keep one of the B4's since I do like the platform, but it will be nice not to *have* to rely on them on a daily basis.

 

[oilhammer]

We see engine failures on all the Hyundai/Kia models pretty regularly, just FYI. And I was a fan of the brand, as I felt they offered 90% of what a Toyota was at 70% the cost. But the last few years have changed that. Shame, because the cars themselves seem well put together and drive nice, but seeing how many engine failures the 2.0L/2.4L engines are suffering makes me think twice now, especially in the Sonata/Optima and Sorento/Sante Fe models.

They extended the warranty on a lot of them, but not all (for some reason). So we (the aftermarket shops) get to do them. I did five last year, and sent three more away (that WERE done under the warranty). And just recently, the "enhanced" version has a little electric motor to do cam phasing, and that motor located in the head gets oil seeped into it and fails, and is a frightfully expensive part and is an all day job to replace.

Not to mention the little plastic thing in the steering column that fails constantly, or the Chinese-sourced alternator clutch pulley that fails prematurely, or....

Bottom line is, LOTS of cars have problems. Some worse and more severe than others, and some that used to be pretty good are not so good any more. The complexity and ever growing regulatory hurdles placing higher and higher costs on things means the manufacturers have to counter with cheapening things elsewhere, or else the cheapest car would be $50k.

This is why I really liked the 2011-2016 Jetta S, in that its stupid simple 2.slo engine, truly the very last of its kind sold in the USA, will have a leg up on longevity and ease of service and operation above and beyond what most any other car could achieve, and it was in a reasonably priced package that was high on value even if not high on content. I thought about buying one "just because" but realized that I could resurrect a dozen neglected ALH cars for the same money. A version of that same 2.slo engine, sold as the base engine alongside the ALH/BEW cars, also is a good solid simple reliable means of transportation.

I get to experience a lot of different cars with my job... not many of them would make me consider giving up my ALH Golf for one though. I drove a 2014 Jeep Patriot yesterday, with the base 2.0L engine and a CVT, and it is so bad I seriously cannot grasp how the Jeep brand allowed themselves to be coerced into placing their name on this horrible piece of crap. As a closet Jeep fan, it makes me want to punch a kitten. And a tech across the shop spent ALL DAY putting a blower motor in a newer Focus, because Ford designed in such that it is buried under the dash in such a way that you really cannot easily access it like they say you can. Lots of cursing was going on over there. The bay next to him was installing a new engine in a Chevrolet Equinox... its 2.4L Ecotec made it a whole 74k miles before its rampant oil consumption and lack of dipstick prowess on the part of the owner led to the chain coming off and trashing the engine.

And of course, the normal view of a Subaru:



I could go on and on... Drive what you like, but never assume the grass is greener somewhere else.

 

[Abacus]

Thanks for bursting my bubble, OH. Pretty much anywhere is greener than where I'm standing now.

I read about the Kia 2.4l engine failures but hoped they had them sorted out, at least on the one I'm looking to buy. Their 10 year/100k base warranty should cover it though.

With respect to the Focus, the B4 heater core isn't much different.

We rented a new Jetta in Mexico and while it was ok, I wasn't impressed with fit or finish. I have no illusions this car is anything but transportation, but I'm hoping it'll be reliable and last. Even the wiper arm springs on the B4 are wearing out do it doesn't contact the windshield well anymore. I know not many other cars have the longevity to have that issue, but I'm tired of the little things like that, and now with this engine problem, it's time to go a different direction. It doesn't mean I won't still have one it keep driving it, just that I won't have to rely on it as my sole transportation.

 

[Stromaluski]

Even the wiper arm springs on the B4 are wearing out do it doesn't contact the windshield well anymore.

I would venture a guess to say that happens simply because they were similar to a corrado. Corrado have abysmal windshield wipers, haha.

 

[oilhammer]

...

With respect to the Focus, the B4 heater core isn't much different..

Well considering I do not ever recall having to replace a heater core on a B4 Passat two years out of the factory, I'd say it IS quite different.

I think you are portraying a less-than-ideal picture of Volkswagen in general based upon a car that was perhaps not a stellar example overall of a car. Not saying the B4 Passat is "bad", but let's be real. It is a facelifted version of the B3, which came out in 1988, which itself was a bloated version of the A2 Golf/Jetta, which came out in 1985, based largely on mechanicals that came out in 1974 that were designed in 1972. Even the Bosch EDC system was already several years old when we finally got it in 1996.

So even when BRAND NEW, the B4 was not a cutting edge modern car by any means compared to many (most) if its competition of the day. To b honest, the only REAL advantage the B4 had over a Camry or Accord of the day was the diesel engine, and even then, that alone required a certain level of owner input to keep healthy. The Camry and Accord by then had a 90k mile interval timing belt.... and if they were neglected... you know what happened? Nothing. 120k, 130k, maybe eventually they failed, or the water pump finally started leaking. And if it broke? A tow truck. And a new belt. No drama. No bent valves. The TDI? At 60k miles you damn well better already have a plan in place to replace it, and if it did fail, a head job or worse was in store.

Plus, you have taken the car to extreme miles and it is now VERY old, and have done so in an environment that is not friendly to cars period (rust belt).

They've come a LONG way since then. I agree some of the newest CR stuff can be a bit daunting, but perhaps not as much as you'd think.

 

[Steve Addy]

Mark
I understand and can sympathize with your desire to get to a place where things aren't always broken, that's one reason the wagon got anything new that was remotely suspect and I think that's paid off, at least for now. I'm about 23k miles into this and so far it's holding together nicely and other than the recent cooling system issue when it was bitter cold..still no idea why that happened..it's doing pretty well. That doesn't mean that everything is going to stay that way, but we'll see.

The problem here is that there's really nothing on the market today that I see as a sure thing for no problems. As OH said all manufacturers are working hard to bring down costs so that margins are better, and in the current environment that's very hard to do. The one car he mentioned, the Jetta with the 2.0, is actually one I considered a while back because I'm used to that engine and it's really a decent motor for maintenance. I would want it with the MT though and AC but otherwise I'm not picky. Again though it's also somewhat old now too.

Part of the problem here is that you also have been responsible for the maintenance on several other B4 cars and that's just adds to the burden. Unless you offload that responsibility you're not going to get away from the B4 stuff.

I would wager that if you didn't have to maintain other B4's you would be less inclined to hate having to work on your own car.

It's been pretty obvious over the course of the last month or so that you've been trying to catch up on the maintenance but then what we see posted up is you doing (almost all of the) work on other B4's, not just your own, and not just maintenance work but serious stuff like replacing beam axles etc! That's some significant repair work, not just maintenance. And you're doing it all in that garage with no insulation and in the middle of winter. Those are serious challenges and with portable heat sources it can be a toxic environment too.

Also, to add to OH's list of nasty problems try replacing the evaporator in a 1992-99 Mercededs W140. I think they literally built the whole car around the evaporator. I will never own another one...blech.

I hope you find something that will get you going again and let you take some time off from the B4 workload. You do need to give up doing all the outside B4 work though too if you want to get yourself to a better place!

Steve

 

[greenskeeper]

can't imagine working in a non-heated garage during the winter, and I'm way down "south" in PA

 

[jdulle]

I totally understand where you are at. I do all of my work outside, and I remember one winter calling it quits on my 94 civic hatchback, after spending hours under it replacing the oil pan gasket to find it was also leaking out of the rear main seal. It also had rust holes to the outside and the back filled up with water when it was wet out. It only had 212k on it. Since then it has been my parts car and I have gotten my money's worth out of it. You did pretty well, made it farther than 99.9%!
It would sure be relaxing to have a newer car. I have been thinking of a 2013-2016 Mitsubishi Mirage, because the FE is close to the TDI, and I probably wouldn't have to worry about much except for oil changes for a while. I'm sure the build quality and driving experience is low, but there are other things in life that are important too. Comparing Honda to VW, it does seem that the VW requires lots of little repairs and tinkering to keep everything working, but on my civics at least, rust destroys hondas much more quickly. I hate replacing fuel tanks!

 

[oilhammer]

The Mirage has currently achieved the worst car I have ever driven (meaning, current model at the time) award. This was with the CVT. Awful, miserable little penalty box. Angry chainsaw engine, power robbing CVT, and a stiff wind...heck, a fat person walking by at a fast pace... is enough to unsettle it. Even their cheap price is too much. There are any number of better little cars out there that could be had slightly used for the same amount of money.

And I have driven $3995 Yugos brand new. I think they drove better. At least they didn't have that abysmal CVT.

 

[Bob S.]

I have not been on here much in the past 1/2 year having been tied up with way too many things. Sorry to read that both Mark & Steve are also having issues with there B4s. As mine giving me a rough running issues also. I have narrowed it done to air getting into the fuel system done all the easy stuff & now need to spend on the supply to the filter & in tank components. With the cold weather I have not had much motivation to do so. Maybe this weekend.

The grips about working on cars is familiar as I am feeling much the same. I find it increasing frustrating mainly on the vision side. Just never enough light to see, fumbling the the readers, on & off with them, etc.

Mark, if you are seriously looking for alternate transportation, consider an early New Beetle, ALH or PD. Manual ones can often be picked up for stupid low $$$. They are great 2 person cars. Take the back seat out & use it as a 2 seater hatch back. You might just find that it will be the cheapest transportation you will ever own. God parts availability, especially on the ALH ones. Besides you know the platform, supply system & network. Also, A5 BRM manuals are starting to appear on the market as stupid low $$$. They are a wonderful road car. A few glitches, but, again, great value of the $$$ as cars go.

 

[Matt-98AHU]

Even out here in California where these don't really rust, B4s are a bit of a pain. Parts are hard to come by, door handles and window regulators are still the same failure prone POSes they've always been. The engines take more effort to stay sealed than a mk4. And once you're used to the Mk4 stuff, even though many jobs require a few extra steps they're just engineered to come apart and go back together a little easier for a lot of major jobs.

The 2015s do have quite a lot of complexity, but they are super efficient and drive very nicely. The revs fall surprisingly quickly with the manual transmission setup!

As IBW mentioned, the 2015s do have going for them a very generous extended warranty, so if any of that complex stuff does fail, VW takes care of it for the first 150,000 miles. And if it's been generally reliable up to that point, why not just keep driving it and see how it goes. If not? Trade it in on something else.

After seeing some of your photos of replacing whole sections of floor on B4s, I have to say you're on of those rare individuals who is even worse than I am about trying to save an old TDI when it really no longer makes financial sense anymore. Color me impressed with the determination! As much as I do like the old cars, there's a lot of their design that is just long in the tooth and not as nice to deal with as some of the newer stuff, the chassis dynamics are pretty floppy in comparison to anything newer as well, though I do appreciate having adjustable camber from the factory.

I still have an old B4, but there are definitely days I ask myself why.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I still have an old B4, but there are definitely days I ask myself why.

I do, too...until I drive it. For reasons I can't quite put my finger on, rolling down the highway at 75 MPH in a B4 is a pleasant, if not quiet, experience. A B4 in good condition tracks well, steers precisely, has plenty of power to pass and climb hills (a tune helps), and the fuel gauge drops very, very slowly.

I'm not sure I'd want to deal with one as a daily driver, but I'm not ready to get rid of it, either.

 

[oilhammer]

Same reason why I still have my '91 Jetta. A hobby car at this point. While it was always very dependable, it gets to enjoy retirement (now if I could just get it all back together again ).

We had a broad bring her 1991 Vanagon to our shop recently, and it is a VERY NICE survivor, unmolested for the most part, runs and drives pretty good. But she I think is wanting it to be a daily driver, and is already complaining about frivolous items like a window squeak when it goes up and down. I had to gently tell her that this is, at this point, a Sunday driver or a hobby car, or at the very least, an "extra" car that you needn't depend on every day. And she did not seem to understand that.... yet it is so obvious to me.

So rather than keep this really nice, last year Vanagon in good useable shape, she is going to attempt to drive it every day, in the city, in all weather, and expect me to keep it in good working order. So I get to see this poor van fall apart, all the while angering the owner because I simply cannot make it "perfect" within a reasonable budget let alone within the confines of what parts are available. And its current value is so crazy high, she paid a pretty penny for it, and has nothing left.

 

[Steve Addy]

I can agree with a lot of the content posted here but parts availability for Mk3 or B4 tdi cars is not something I can agree with unless you're talking only about Parts that come in a VW box (made by other companies).

While there are some things that are NLA from VW that are kind of critical, I can only think of one, the lower radiator hose for B4 tdi, that poses a big issue if a person had a failure.

Otherwise, the aftermarket has a reasonably good supply of parts for these things if you look around, enough to keep them on the road for a reasonable amount of time.

If you want real parts availability problems try driving a 1992 Peugeot (any model) or how about a Renault GTA?

VW owners are pretty lucky, even going back into the mid-70's in that a lot of this stuff is still around due to demand. Cult status for early cars helps keep some things on the market and VW parts often apply to multiple generations so it's good for later ones too.

We have it pretty good guys, at least I think so, and I'm driving a frankenwagon B3 tdi conversion as a DD.

Steve

 

[oilhammer]

Things that are NLA for the A3/B4:

Most of the A/C system aside from the compressor. Need a line? Have to have it made. Condenser? Some garbage aftermarket ones that may not even fit, let alone last for very long.

Charge air hoses.

Door panel trim clips.

The entire exhaust system (again, some aftermarket stuff exists, but it usually is pretty poor fit).

Even things like struts and mounts have become difficult to find.

Intermediate shaft bearings.

I am sure Peter could pile on a HUGE list of stuff.

Filters, belts, brake pads... no problem. If the car is really nice, and you can keep it nice, that is one thing. But it is not getting easier.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Yesterday I had to find an auxiliary fan blade for a B4. To my surprise, I did. Aftermarket, of course. Fuel lines, although you can make something up. Any of the hard brake lines I think are pretty much not available. Intercooler hoses.

Can you keep one mobile with a little searching and creativity? Absolutely. But you better be willing to put some effort into it, or find a shop that's willing to. But that's what we're talking about here, isn't it? When does the level of commitment and effort outweigh the savings and enjoyment as a daily driver?

 

[Windex]

Given one of the cars Abacus is saddled with is my fault, I'm chiming in.

What I see in this thread is some legit concern over how one can can keep ageing vehicles on the road reliably.

However, I'm reminded of a good friend and former coworker who immigrated from Cuba.

For a long time, they had nothing, but nothing they could get parts for. Nothing got through the embargo.

They still kept everything on the road.

55 belair engine worn to the point it will not take a 6th rebuild with thrice-knurled pistons? no problem - we'll make a Lada engine from the 70's fit.

No more gasoline? no issues - we'll create a pre-heat box to melt lard and then atomize it in another hot-box before feeding into a modified carburetor.

These guys could keep anything on the road - they saw a broken part as a challenge, not a dead-end on an older vehicle.

They ran turn-of-century steam locomotives until recently because they kept making any of the parts which broke or wore out, and because the couldn't buy anything new.

C'mon - certainly we have the know how and the resources on this great continent to be able to come up with solutions to the challenges posed above re NLA parts and other ageing car related issues?