B4 Passat Window Regulator & Regulator Motor Fiasco. Please Advise!

[ebernhoft]

So here is the Saga: My window started making this horrible noise when it reached the top of the track. I was suspicious of the window regulator as outlined in the myturbodiesel.com article (below):

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q/a3b4/window-power-repair-regulator.htm

I removed the regulator and indeed two of the teeth where the regulator meets the motor were completely rounded off. It was replaced with a mint looking junkyard regulator. It now no longer makes horrid noises. I noticed at the time of replacement that the circular plastic nob that is used for adjustment was somewhat mauled on the old regulator, as if the motor was being too forceful. I adjusted the new regulator with the new nob, however, it seemed to bite into the plastic and the regulator looks to end up in the same configuration that it did without the nob at all.

Anyways, I also noticed that despite adjustment when the window rolled up all the way the door frame flexes slightly. It seems that the other windows do not do this. I have begun to notice that the same teeth on the new regulator are starting to show wear and tear. This again seems to indicate to me that the motor itself is exerting too much pressure on the regulator itself. Unfortunately the window motors are OUTRAGEOUSLY expensive even from the junkyard ($140 used).

Does anyone have any thoughts or advice? It is sorely needed. Thanks

New motor? Reset pinch protection? Fabricate a more durable oval, plastic, configuration nob that doesnt get bitten into?

 

[Lug_Nut]

Not much can be done. Sorry.
You could take control and briefly press the 'down' button to relieve the load on the oval disk, but that's about all. It's the resistance of that disk that is intended to 'stall' the motor and trip the circuit breaker to shut off motor power a the end of the glass stroke.
Perhaps you can come up with a micro-switch substitute that cuts power precisely at (not a few mm after) the glass is seated. It's the few mm extra that causes the window frame flex.

 

[ken.fresno-tdi]

regulator motor that won't quit

I also have a regulator motor that just keeps on going after it pushes the window to the top-- grind, pop, grind, pop, grind. I took it apart and could see no broken teeth on either the regulator or motor. The only worn part appears to be the plastic piece on the cam disk that looks like it has been repeatedly squashed. I'm a bit confused though - does that cam signal to the motor to quit, or is it an 'adjustment' as I've also read. With or without the cam in place the motor keeps going, on both the full up and down positions. My guess was that there was something wrong with the motor itself, or the circut breaker that is supposed to switch off the motor. I ordered another motor and regulator (from 94x) and hope that that fixes the problem, but I'm not sure it will. Ideas? I think the microswitch idea is a good one - I have a spare lock from a 02 Jetta sitting around and may try to splice the microswitch from that in if I can't fix it otherwise.

Not much can be done. Sorry.
You could take control and briefly press the 'down' button to relieve the load on the oval disk, but that's about all. It's the resistance of that disk that is intended to 'stall' the motor and trip the circuit breaker to shut off motor power a the end of the glass stroke.
Perhaps you can come up with a micro-switch substitute that cuts power precisely at (not a few mm after) the glass is seated. It's the few mm extra that causes the window frame flex.

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

If anyone decides the motor is the problem I still have both front motors in the garage from when I went to manual regulators. PM with any interest, they will be cheap. I'm even willing to let you try one for just the cost of shipping to see if it helps/solves your problem as long as you promise to post the results.

 

[diesel steve]

I have had window problems too. There is a metal bracket towards the front of the door that the window probably poped out of. The window track near the front. Look with a flashlight inside the door wth the door panel off. The window is probaly not in the track. I think it's a 10mm bolt that holds the bracket. Also see if the spot welds are broken on the bracket,good luck.

 

[lupin..the..3rd]

If anyone decides the motor is the problem I still have both front motors in the garage from when I went to manual regulators. PM with any interest, they will be cheap. I'm even willing to let you try one for just the cost of shipping to see if it helps/solves your problem as long as you promise to post the results.

Any details on the manual regulator swap? Sounds like a nice alternative to these poorly designed power window regulators.

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

Here's a very brief summary since I'm traveling minus my laptop for the next month.

You order everything for a US spec B3 that has manual windows. You need the regulators which are priced similar to the electric ones. You need a pair of adapters for the front windows that add length. You need a set of window cranks, screws and washers. You reuse the bolts from your electric regulators. On three out of four door panels there was a mark on the backside for where to drill the holes in the door panels. Covering the old switch holes is harder. The parts must be ordered from Europe and some colors are out of production. The front and rear switch cover is the same so you need 2 lefts and two rights. ETKA shows what appears to be the correct plug to fill in the switch hole on the dash. I have not tried ordering it yet but appears to be available for US order.

I've got all the part numbers on my laptop and can post them in November. Feel free to PM me if I forget.

Wagon regulators are the same as sedans so you are good there too.

 

[Mr_Deezy]

My driver side window (1997 Passat TDI) keeps rotating forward as it goes up and leaves a huge gap at the rear corner of the window because the entire glass is cocked forward. I replaced the regualtor with a new one from GAP and I still have the problem. I installed the clip/hook device on the rear end of the long regulator slide (the one that the window bolts to) but don't have any clip for the front side, nor do I see a track for the front.

Any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Robert Beecher]

Dezzy I had the same prob only mine would come out of the track. I took off the passenger side panel and noticed there was an adjustment on the mounting screw for the front window guide, there was not on the driverside. The door had been replaced before I bought it, was a different color on the inside. Anyway I did something similar to what CrazyQuantumMan had suggested earlierwith drilling a new hole. I took a dremill tool grinder and made a slot for the mounting screw down and back about 1 inch. Adjusted the screw on the front window mount all the way down in the new slot and tried it. Works perfectly. Hope this helps.

 

[Mr_Deezy]

Dezzy I had the same prob only mine would come out of the track. I took off the passenger side panel and noticed there was an adjustment on the mounting screw for the front window guide, there was not on the driverside. The door had been replaced before I bought it, was a different color on the inside. Anyway I did something similar to what CrazyQuantumMan had suggested earlierwith drilling a new hole. I took a dremill tool grinder and made a slot for the mounting screw down and back about 1 inch. Adjusted the screw on the front window mount all the way down in the new slot and tried it. Works perfectly. Hope this helps.

Just so I completely understand, the large/longer track, the one that the window actually bolts to, it has the recatangular plastic blocks that slide fore and aft as the window goes up or down and has two metal stops, 1 forward, one aft, this is the piece that needs to be drilled, right? And I drill a hole about 3/4" rearward of the forward stop and install a bolt/new stop, right?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Robert Beecher]

No its the shorter about 6 or 8 inch track on the inside of the door. It just has 1 plastic block in it.One arm on the regulator goes from the long track that you are talkin about to the track I'm talkin about. Take your inside door panel off and there will be 2 10mm bolts about halfway down on the door towards the back. They are about 5 or 6 inches apart and thats what holds the little track on. The rear bolt is the one you need to adjust. I didnt drill a new hole, I just slotted that one down and towards the rear but a new hole might be just as easy. Sorry I wasnt on here yesterday to get back to you but mabey you can figure it out. If not I will try to figure out how to put some pics on here for ya. Will check back tommorrow.

 

[Mr_Deezy]

OK I understand. I had already opened that hole up a bit to make it work. Here's the latest on it.

After opening that hole in the downward position and adjusting the bolt/track to the fullest downward I could go and adjusting the forward window mount to the furtherst upward position, the window rode in the tracks up and down fairly well. It wasn't perfect but I could raise and lower the window and making a slight bump up or down at the very top of its travel and it would not leak or whistle while driving.

Today I had the window all the way down and had to get out of the car. I closed the door with the window still down and it came off the tracks that keep it centered in the door. Specifially the front track. I had to disassemble the door again, unbolt the window from the large regulator track to get it reposition in the front felt track again. I also opened up the hole a bit more. What I need is some way to keep the window in the front felt track. Keeping the rear slide on the rear track (the metal track that is part of the door) would help too.

Thanks

 

[Robert Beecher]

Mine is the same way at the top but I blamed that on the felt and rudder being worn out at the top rear of the window. Other than that I dont know what it could be. I looked for a way to adjust the front felt track back to help it stay in too but didnt see any way. My passenger side works perfectly,stays in the felt and everything all the way up, so I took the panel off of it and looked at it to see what the differnce was or what on the driverside might be worn out and that was when I saw the adjustment on that screw we talked about. Dont know about your door but if it works ok you might try that to see if there are any differences. One of the plastic blocks that slide in the tracks that the ends of the regulator pops into and has a clip that holds it in there was broke a little too. It would get pressure on it when the window gets to the top and it would pop out of the block. I couldnt get a new block so I just put the clip on and bent it tight on there with some pliers but a new block would be nice.That could be your prob mabey. Might need more adjustment too. Just guessin now

 

[RabbitGTI]

So, the black cap on the rear of the regulator moves toward the back of the car and off the L shaped rail in the door. Then the window moves forward and tilts down at the front. What is supposed to keep the black cap on the L?

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

Any details on the manual regulator swap? Sounds like a nice alternative to these poorly designed power window regulators.

The latest post reminded me I'd never followed up with this information. Hope it helps someone in the future.

The parts list for the manual regulator swap is below. You pull the door panels, unbolt the motors and power regulators, install the manual regulators with the same hardware from the old ones and drill a hole in each door panel where the shaft for the hand crank comes through. 3 of my 4 door panels actually had a perforated circle on the back side for where to drill. I'd still suggest measuring twice before drilling once. Easy swap can be completed in just a few hours. I did this 6 years ago so I don't remember everything in great detail. I did this on a 96 sedan. The wagons should work the same as the regulators are the same part number....only the glass is different. Any B3 Passat with manual regulators would works as a donor. I bought mine parts new since I didn't know at the time they were B3 parts.

LR Manual Regulator: 3A0-839-401-F
RR Manual Regulator: 3A0-839-402-F
LF Manual Regulator: 3A0-837-401-B
RF Manual Regulator: 3A0-837-402-B
Wind Crank Levers: 3A0-837-581-B All 4 are the same
Front Window Crank Adapter: 3A0-837-459 Not needed on rear
Window Crank Washer: N-012-130-1 All 4 are the same
Front Window Crank Screw: N-101-736-01
Rear Window Crank Screw: N-033-023-1

 

[reddtekk]

Replacement regulator

FWIW the Dorman 740-805 replacement (power, not manual) regulator that I bought on Amazon is reasonably stout. It is much thicker than the OEM and it doesn't cost too much more than what most junkyards charge for a used one. You get all the new plastic parts too...it's a full drop in replacement. I have to pull mine apart again unfortunately because tonight I tried to roll it down not realizing that it was frozen shut and it made a pretty loud pop before I could let go of the switch. I would think that the motor would trip out before damaging the regulator so hopefully it just pulled it off one of the tracks. I'll post an update when I have a chance to look it over.

 

[reddtekk]

OK the Dorman regulator performed OK on the ice test - one of the steel ends popped out of the blue plastic slide on the track that mounts to the bottom of the glass. Set the window back in its tracks and popped the pivot back together and all was well. I have had this in the car since June and so far this has been the only incident. They have a very encouraging video up on Amazon touting their advances in re-engineered window regulators. I remember frequently removing my stock one (and afterwards the junkyard replacement) to bend it back into shape. I can't foresee needing to do that with this one. I would rather see a break-away pop loose than have a gear strip or an arm bend. Hopefully this continues to perform as it has for the past 8 months. BTW - I didn't have to do any slot extensions or additional holes to make this work. I studied the slop in my old regulator before buying this one. I was ready to build stuff up with weld, add strongbacks, make new bushings, buy new weatherstripping, whatever it took to make this stupid thing work again like it should. Part of the problem was in the adjustment cam and the frequently mentioned plastic part, which was also chewed to bits in my case. I'd flattened it out with the heat gun trick several times and eventually gave up. The flange, let's call it, of that plastic piece is necessary to keep the driven gear segment tight against the rest of the regulator. If it gets too floppy, the arms are allowed to flex too far off parallel with one another. The force applied to suspend the window is no longer going through the path of greatest resistance and the arms begin to bend, sometimes past the point of yield. Once that happens, it's all over. The geometry of the whole assembly is then changed, leading to the window tilting too far forward and falling out of its track at the slightest jarring when in the downward position. I have had mine fall out of the track when going over speedbumps and potholes, when closing the door like others have observed, etc. Changing nothing more than the regulator assembly mentioned before, all of these problems were addressed and I can again enjoy the great green TDI.....until something else breaks anyway.

Has anyone else tried these? Any success stories? Criticisms? Anyone tried any other aftermarket parts for this? How'd you make out?

 

[mrbrefast]

The parts list for the manual regulator swap is below.

LR Manual Regulator: 3A0-839-401-F
RR Manual Regulator: 3A0-839-402-F
LF Manual Regulator: 3A0-837-401-B
RF Manual Regulator: 3A0-837-402-B
Wind Crank Levers: 3A0-837-581-B All 4 are the same
Front Window Crank Adapter: 3A0-837-459 Not needed on rear
Window Crank Washer: N-012-130-1 All 4 are the same
Front Window Crank Screw: N-101-736-01
Rear Window Crank Screw: N-033-023-1

Hi there - any chance you recall how much all of this cost you? I am thinking about doing this, one less electrical system which can break or go wonky in the winter....

 

[Reider]

I've attempted this modification.

I ordered the manual regulators (3A0837401B, -402B, 3A0839401F, -402F).

It seems, to me, that the spindles for the cranks are not long enough to protrude through my door cards (door cards intended for the power window set-up). In fact, I installed both rear window regulators and re-installed my original door cards without having to cut a hole for said spindles. Am I missing something here? How in the heck are we supposed to roll our windows up and down if the spindles aren't long enough.

I know this may be an old thread, but I still need some help figuring it out. My crappy power windows are ready to quit on me.

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

On the front doors you need to buy an extension that goes between the regulator and the crank. 3A0-837-459. I needed no extensions on the rear doors.

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

Hi there - any chance you recall how much all of this cost you? I am thinking about doing this, one less electrical system which can break or go wonky in the winter....

My costs were very high. I ordered all my parts from Norway and shipped ($200 right there) them to the US. It ran about $950. I later discovered thanks to the reverse part number search in ETKA 7.0 that these were U.S. spec B3 parts. Put all the part numbers into www.1stvwparts.com and you can calculate your own current cost.

 

[mrbrefast]

I really appreciate you getting back to me...

My costs were very high. I ordered all my parts from Norway and shipped ($200 right there) them to the US. It ran about $950.

I did email them earlier, and I hope to god they have it cheaper than that.

 

[mrbrefast]

Put all the part numbers into www.1stvwparts.com and you can calculate your own current cost.

Their direct answer tonight puts it at approx $615 for nearly all the parts:



Not going to do this prior to the winter, but come the spring, this is tempting...

... though I am also tempted, since my windows are way shot anyways, to try and DIY modify them into manual cranks. If it works, hundreds of dollars saved. If not, I will then have even stronger reason to buy the right parts!

 

[IanDunham]

Hi, for what it's worth, you can get the regulators at carparts.com for about $20 each. They're not OEM, though.

All the other parts are being more difficult to track down.

 

[Steve Addy]

I have been wondering about this route as well. I had hoped to stumble upon an early B3 wagon that was ordered without power windows so I could snag all the parts I needed.

The B3 power window system is really crappy and although I did end up fixing the passenger side windows I still need to do some work so the driver goes up and down properly. I'm hoping that the stuff I need can be harvested from a B4 since I think it's just guides and / or rails etc. The window shifts in the opening on the way up and then won't close all the way before the relay kicks off.

I kind of wondered what parts could be sourced from a Mk3? Obviously not the regulators but perhaps the misc bits / handles etc?

Steve

 

[IanDunham]

Yeah, maybe from an MK3. I would imagine the parts are relatively similar, but I'm really just going off the homework that diesel_aggie has done on this project.

Really the part I'm most concerned with is that extending adaptor for the front two windows, I think the washer's screws are probably sourceable from other places. And the cranks themselves might be fairly generic? I really have no idea.

This is obviously not a project for me that will get done in one go. The fact that these parts are not manufactured any more by VW is the problem, and tracking down aftermarket parts through Google searching for the part numbers has been nearly useless.

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

Unfortunately my install CD for ETKA 7.0 was damaged and I lost the program when I had to upgrade to Win 7. Someone with working ETKA should be able to take any of the part numbers and do a reverse lookup by part number. This will then show the chassis and year range that it fits. Then you know exactly what you can salvage from.

B4 wagon and sedan regulators are the same even though the rear door glass and upper frame are different. I suspect it is the same on the B3.

 

[IanDunham]

I have ETKA installed, but can't see how to do a reverse search on a part?

 

[Diesel_Aggie]

In the version of ETKA 7 the function was in one of the pull down menus and I believe it was called ATP. You put the part number in there and check the box for all models, not just the specific one you are looking at. It gives you the ETKA model name and year/serial number range the part fits. Hardware parts with an N at the beginning have a trick to how you input them to make it work I don't recall the trick. Also any part with a color code suffix should have the color code left off. You may have to remove the dashes in the part numbers as well. I haven't had access in several years so I've forgotten. Hope this helps.

Oh, if you have a world version it should also list models not made sold in North America as well.

 

[IanDunham]

Gotcha, thanks.

I found these cranks, which I think will fit:

http://www.hansautoparts.com/357837581WindowCrank.aspx

Still hunting for the adapters and other hardware.