B4 GP Relay...poof!

[9passat6]

My GP fuse was burnt out in my 96 Passat so I decided to replace everything. I got the kit from idparts all went smooth, until that is I turned the key. There is a black wire going from the key cylinder to the fuse block (ground wire?) went up in smoke and burned off all the covering. Took out the new relay that they sent and it had no resemblance to the old. I lost power to fuses 13-18. Checked the other relays one by one pulling them out to bench test and they are all good... Anybody have an idea where to go? We spent about 3 hours chasing wires reading pin outs and searching the inter webs with no answer. I plan to call idparts tomorrow and find out wth they sent me.

Edit- a 97 GP relay was put into a 96 car... What would blow because of that and cause the issues above?

 

[Steve Addy]

Did you happen to have a look at the GP sticky at the top of the page here so see exactly which system you have and how it's wired in?

Steve

 

[ToddA1]

Man, that sucks!

Sorry to hear, but if the new didn't resemble the old I wouldn't have installed it. Did the new relay have the schematic on it?

-Todd

 

[9passat6]

I looked through that thread and didn't really find anything helpful. After going to Napa and getting a relay from them the relays were completely different. Idparts had 3 prongs top and bottom with one large spade. The new one from Napa...not even close to being similar, which I found out afterwards the Napa was correct style.

 

[9passat6]

I take that back I did see that there were 2 different relays after the fact, which they sent me the 97 relay. So since I put a 97 into a 96 I am now trying to find the culprit to what killed my power to the fuse block. Hoping there isn't something internal in the block or the ecm that I fried...

 

[Steve Addy]

I take that back I did see that there were 2 different relays after the fact, which they sent me the 97 relay. So since I put a 97 into a 96 I am now trying to find the culprit to what killed my power to the fuse block. Hoping there isn't something internal in the block or the ecm that I fried...

Well it's not that there are two different relays, it's where the relays are located. The important relay, the #180 is located up and behind the relay panel at the base of the bulkhead behind the dash. That's also where you'll find the maxi-fuse holder too. Check the pages of that GP thread to see about this.

Both systems use the #180 relay but the wiring for the early cars can require a relay (103, 104 possibly) in position #12 of the relay (fuse) block. The 180 relay never goes into position #12 ever.

The wiring for the GP system changed at some point and the relay in position 12 went away. That's also how the GP wiring is done for the late 97 and up Mk3 cars, no relay in position #12.

Steve

 

[9passat6]

I took a 180 relay from a 97 and put it into slot #12....Not realizing it until the smoke went up. I did not see the 180 behind the fuse block anywhere. So I am gathering that I fried my system? I don't have the car it is like 2 hours away from me, I can't get to it until the weekend. What happens when 180 goes into the #12 spot? There was no power going to the maxi fuse and then the list of fuses up in my original post.

 

[Steve Addy]

I took a 180 relay from a 97 and put it into slot #12....Not realizing it until the smoke went up. I did not see the 180 behind the fuse block anywhere. So I am gathering that I fried my system? I don't have the car it is like 2 hours away from me, I can't get to it until the weekend. What happens when 180 goes into the #12 spot? There was no power going to the maxi fuse and then the list of fuses up in my original post.

Not sure what kind of damage was done, you'll have to wait until you can get in there and drop the fuse box down to see what's going on.

Was there a fuse in #12 before you inserted the new one? If so what number was it?

There are two ways power can come to the maxi fuse. Which one you have depends on whether you had a relay in position #12 originally or not.

If there was a relay in position #12 OR your system is the type that requires a relay in #12 then power comes to the GP system from Z1 on the back of the relay box.

If there was no relay in position #12 or your system did not require a relay in that position then power to the GP system comes direct from battery power at the Y block of the relay panel.

Take a look at this, it'll help you understand the electrical system better.

At the very least the burnt wiring will need to be replaced, which isn't really as daunting as it sounds.

Steve

 

[9passat6]

We were able to replace the burnt wire, and yes the car had a relay in the #12 location. All the fuses were in the block no empty spaces. The maxi was originally blown so we replaced it and unfortunately I didn't check the relay before putting the new one in( spot #12). That link is what we were referencing to try and figure out what was what. Im not the best with wiring and schematics so still trying to figure that part out.

I looked at it again on a full computer screen and not a phone. We traced the wiring in the schematic, but the thing we were unable to find is where do the fuses get their power that I was not able to find. If I read it right x relay gets power from x fuse. but x fuse gets power from?

I saw on the schematic that -30 was the main power to the fuse block. So if that is correct then there must be a link inside the block that burnt out? All fuses have power except for 13-18 and the maxi.

 

[Steve Addy]

I would tend to agree that if you don't have power at 13-18 that something inside is probably messed up. Although if you lost power to 13-18 I would expect you to lose it at fuse 6 too since that should be the same source.

If you did have a relay in position 12 then you need to find that and compare to the relays you recently purchased to see whether one of those is like that. Also, you need to get to your 180 that's back by the bulkhead behind the fuse box and get that out and look at it.

Also, how did you know your maxi fuse was blown? Those are typically located back behind the fuse box near the GP relay attached to the bulk head. Was this maxi fuse somewhere else?

Steve

 

[9passat6]

I unhooked the fuse block and dropped it down to put a new fuse in and noticed it was blown. I did not recall seeing the 180 relay back in there though. There was a wire going from the fuse to the block and another wire going through the firewall. Fuse 6 I am unsure about bc my A/C doesn't work...Next thing on the list to fix lol. The new relay from napa matches the old relay, we sized them up at the store. The idparts relay is the 97 which went poof, and then realized it was way different. I will ask my buddy if he can try searching again for this 180 relay to see if it is not operating

 

[Abacus]

You won't have a 180 relay in the car since you have a 1996 B4. The 1996 B4 used relay 103 in the #12 position, which was an actual relay. The 1997 used a grey bridge (looks like a relay but there are only 2 terminals on the underside and no numbers on the outside) to shunt power to the 180 relay above the fuse block. The 1996 B4 does not use the relay 180 anywhere.

The 1996 and 1997 B4's have different glow plug wiring harnesses.

 

[9passat6]

I ordered a used fuse/relay holder on eBay. I'm guessing I fried something inside the block? Does that sound right for my symptoms?

 

[Steve Addy]

I ordered a used fuse/relay holder on eBay. I'm guessing I fried something inside the block? Does that sound right for my symptoms?

Abacus is correct, because you have the early car with the relay in position 12 you won't have a #180 anywhere, but you will have the maxi fuse.

The relay block might not be bad but those things cannot be diagnosed without being there. I guess it's better to have one going in since you're not where the car is at the moment.

I would think it more likely that you lost some wiring somewhere but again too difficult to diagnose from here.

Steve

 

[9passat6]

If all goes well I will be going back down early Saturday. It just sucks that the wires are so tight so I cannot really pull the block out to far without wires being strained. Ill throw on a head lamp and jump in there see if any wires are messed up. The PO was a real hack so I am sure I will find something! Not sure if I should just swap blocks out and spend time trying to find something that may not be there

 

[9passat6]

What would the chance I fried the ignition switch? That is the only thing I haven't checked.

 

[Wiggins Welding]

Have you figured out what was wrong? I did the same thing, put the 180 relay in the number 12 spot on my 96 b4 and I heard a faint pop sound now the car just cranks but won't start and I have no lights come on on the dash at all

 

[Jettax3]

Sounds just like a problem I'm having. Quick background. A few years ago, the wire feeding the injector pump broke(?). It had power back about a foot or so, so I attached one of those blue clips (the kind used to add a wire to an existing wire without cutting it) to the wire back where it still had juice. If I remember correctly, I had to go back on the other side of the big circle connector where all those wires go through. That has worked for several years just fine. Now my problem started when I had to change the heater core. So I had the dash out to do the job and when I reinstalled everything, I got the same symptoms mentioned above. We even tried putting a hot wire to the injector pump to see if it would even run at all like that. At best, we just got a bit of gray smoke. I thought maybe we pinched a wire when we reinstalled the dash, but it seems like that isn't the issue. I wouldn't rule the possibility out entirely, but I'm fairly confident that we didn't pinch any wires. The only other consideration would be the alarm system. Before this problem came up, it was going off all the time. It would lock the doors randomly (going down the road, sitting empty in a parking lot, etc...) Maybe that's a different issue, but I thought I'd include it just in case it factored in.

Edit: this is on my '98 Jetta

 

[Jettax3]

Well, I don't know what the issue actually ended up being. I sold the car to my brother and he put the engine in a '97 Passat and it runs fine. So there was some electrical issue that I simply couldn't track down. I would still be curious to know what may have been causing the issue.