B4 Accessory Belt, Harmonic Balancer, Tensioner (aka B4 chirp)

[grimlock]

Ok, so I've read several posts about this topic... Including:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=96366&highlight=chirp

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=149459

I have the harmonic balancer, tensioner and a new accessory belt, as well as a new power steering belt. (belts are probably about 60k km's old)

My question is:

How "exactly" do I remove the accessory belt?

Twob4s, indicates in his post to "pry the serpentine belt tensioner and lift the belt...."

Does the belt tensioner "give" when you press firmly on it? I looked at the tensioner, it doesn't seem to move, from what I recall. (parts are not in front of me at the moment -- I'm at work)

If you can't already tell, I'm a little nervous about attempting this without detailed instructions (and/or pics).

I do have the bentley books, but from the posts I read the huge 3297 lever doesn't seem to be needed.

thanks in advance.

Richard

 

[RIP TDI]

Got a large crescent wrench? Slide it over the down-facing portion of the tensioner lever shaft just after it turns 90 degrees out of the alternator bracket. Lever/rotate the shaft clockwise to relieve belt tension.

 

[rdkern]

I used either a pickle fork (you know - that thing to get off tie-rod ends on an old bug) or big vice-grips. It does turn - strong spring. I had more fun getting the ps belt off. You may also consider changing the tensioner spring and roller - after I did the "jumping" of the belt stopped. The balancer was next changed because everything else was.

Good luck. (trip still planned?)

 

[grimlock]

Awesome, I'll have a look at it tonight. Printing your guys' instructions now Thanks guys!!

Trip already done. (I know, I know, I didn't get a chance to meet up with you in Eureka ) Me and the Mrs. were really behind schedule - in a rush to make an appointment with relatives in San Francisco. Not to mention I had a lot of last minute stuff to take care of at work before the trip - made planning extra stops difficult. Would have been nice if I had more time along the coast as well as a stop in Eureka. Round trip was seven days... (not exactly a vacation, more like a getaway and then a rush home)

On a good note, the only car maintenance thing I had to do during the trip, was top off the oil, and drain the oil catch on my mann provent. (yep I was over-worried)

I'm already planning a trip down early next year, hopefully a little more relaxing one though!

 

[grimlock]

Oh, I guess I have to put in some details pertinent trip details:

Best mpg peaked at about 47mpg pretty damn good, considering I was driving anywhere between 100 km/h - 140km/h, rarely using cruise control. (too much traffic, and/or winding roads)

Worst mpg was around 40mpg. (mixed city/highway)

Since I got back, I already did an oil change, tranny fluid, and brake fluid change (didn't get a chance to do it before the trip) And installed dieselgeek short shift kit, which I had sent to a relative in the US, and brought back tax-free.

 

[rdkern]

Glad you had a good trip. Maybe next time - or on our next trip up your way.

 

[RC]

There is that one thread I was looking for and couldn`t locate.

Thanks grimlock! It`s in my "favorites" folder now.

 

[grimlock]

no problem! thanks to your original post, great info for many of us!

 

[grimlock]

I got around to replacing all the components in my original post. (Harmonic Balancer, Tensioner/Spring, Roller, Accessory belt, and PS belt)

btw, the original tensioner/spring was "stuck" on the shaft... took much more force than I felt comfortable with using in order to remove it.


But I still have a distinct "chirp" when the AC is on. Is it the AC pulley now?

Anyone else have this problem?

 

[rdkern]

I had a worse chirp before my AC clutch froze (on my way back from Las Vegas - let's not go there) so You might consider replacing that if all else has been done. Perhaps get a piece of tubing to "hear" where the chirp is coming from. You've been having ac issues anyways, no? Perhaps it's time for a new compressor.

 

[RIP TDI]

The only remaining cause involving the serpentine belt tensioning system would be worn tensioner shaft bushings in the alternator bracket. After you removed the tensioner spring, how much radial clearance was there in the tensioner shaft (i.e., how much could you rock it in its bushings)? Unless the shaft had been badly bouncing for a very long time, its unlikely that the bushings would be worn enough to cause an alignment problem.

And you did remove/clean/re-grease the shaft when you replaced the tensioner spring, right?

The alternator pulley shouldn't really be a problem unless its loose or damaged. It shouldn't be necessary to replace the original pulley with the later style that incorporates the one-way clutch if you've replaced the tensioner spring and balancer.

 

[LLL]

I'm changing the belt tensioner (50$) and ACC belt tensioner pulley (7 (seven )$!) tomorrow. Both parts are new.

But, the tensioner shaft was damaged (didn't prevent the tensioner shaft bushings right on time, stupid me), and guess what: found new shaft for - 60 (sixty!?)$$$$$!!!!!!
Are they nuts???!!! 60$ for a piece of 25cm of simple metal?! No way, I'll try to repair the old one... or find a used part... we'll see. I wont give fortune to the thieves!

Btw, I have a chirp when the AC is on, too.

Waiting for advices and solution.

Thanks.

 

[LLL]

... Unless the shaft had been badly bouncing for a very long time...

Unfortunatelly, that happened to me .

 

[grimlock]

The only remaining cause involving the serpentine belt tensioning system would be worn tensioner shaft bushings in the alternator bracket. After you removed the tensioner spring, how much radial clearance was there in the tensioner shaft (i.e., how much could you rock it in its bushings)? Unless the shaft had been badly bouncing for a very long time, its unlikely that the bushings would be worn enough to cause an alignment problem.

And you did remove/clean/re-grease the shaft when you replaced the tensioner spring, right?

The alternator pulley shouldn't really be a problem unless its loose or damaged. It shouldn't be necessary to replace the original pulley with the later style that incorporates the one-way clutch if you've replaced the tensioner spring and balancer.

hmmm, I wasn't getting much of "bouncing" or "jumping" or the accessory belt before (or after) I replaced the above parts. From what I remember there was zero radial clearance for the shaft.

Having said that, I didn't realize I was supposed to remove the entire shaft and regrease it. I only cleaned off / regreased the end of the shaft where the spring slides on.

To clarify though, my question above was referring to the air conditioning pulley, as opposed the alternator pulley. I'm also doubtful the alternator pulley is the problem.

Do any of you think removing the tensioner shaft to clean/regrease will help at this point? The belt is not bouncing at all, and the chirp only occurs when AC is on, otherwise everything sounds normal. (I guess I will do it... sigh.)

thanks,
Richard

 

[redmondjp]

hmmm, I wasn't getting much of "bouncing" or "jumping" or the accessory belt before (or after) I replaced the above parts. From what I remember there was zero radial clearance for the shaft.

Having said that, I didn't realize I was supposed to remove the entire shaft and regrease it. I only cleaned off / regreased the end of the shaft where the spring slides on.

To clarify though, my question above was referring to the air conditioning pulley, as opposed the alternator pulley. I'm also doubtful the alternator pulley is the problem.

Do any of you think removing the tensioner shaft to clean/regrease will help at this point? The belt is not bouncing at all, and the chirp only occurs when AC is on, otherwise everything sounds normal. (I guess I will do it... sigh.)

thanks,
Richard

I would definitely do it--my tensioner shaft was essentially frozen in place when I first got my car (no corrosion, just hardened lubricant)--I had to "break it loose" in order to even release tension on the belt. I cleaned out the bushings inside the aluminum housing (one bushing on each end, not a continuous bushing) and regreased with Syl-glide--a wide-temperature-range silicone lubricant which you can get at any Napa parts store. I believe that on my car, the friction on the tensioner shaft was effectively preventing the tensioner spring from keeping the belt tensioned.

I seem to recall having to remove the airbox in order to slide the tensioner shaft all the way out of the housing. I also replaced the seals on each end of the tensioner shaft--they were inexpensive and I got them from the local VW dealer.

 

[RIP TDI]

Ditto, except for the Syl-Glide. I used it for this purpose 3 years ago and had occasion to remove the shaft recently (for a water pump replacement). It was not happy with that grease...very rough shaft rotation (felt as if there was no grease at all). I re-lubed it with synthetic wheel bearing grease...what a difference, at least initially. Remains to be seen how well it ages.

 

[LLL]

Done! Belt tensioner, ACC belt tensioner pulley, belt, bushings (bronze) - changed.
Old damaged tensioner shaft handled very well (15$ ), like new now!
Shaft and housing greased, no more squicking, chirping! The sound of silence!... I just can't stop listening it!... but ...
...50% of this pleasure is a merit of all forum members, which help and advices are of great
significance for all of us, the VW fans.
THANKS GUYS!
P.S. Grimlock, removing the tensioner shaft to clean/regrease will help a lot!
Do not hesitate to do it, just do it! (as Chris Bell wrote: use a synthetic wheel bearing grease). Good luck.

 

[grimlock]

hmmm yeah, I've been thinking about it....

I think, at the time, I was just too excited to get the spring off the shaft. It took way too long to get off, as well as using a LOT more force than one should probably use. (hammer & screwdriver w/ very hard wacks) It should have occurred to me to take the entire shaft out and relube it. (especially after reading posts about doing that... *slaps forehead* DOH!)

I'll be retackling the job this weekend....


Is it possible to save time, by not removing the power steering belt? and just slacken the accessory belt off, remove airbox & spring then remove the shaft?

thanks guys for all the help & advice! much appreciated!!!

Richard

 

[LLL]

Yes, I think it's possible.

 

[rdkern]

I'm not sure how much time would be saved - but any time you can avoid taking off the skid plate I guess you may wish to try.

I just don't recall if there is any issue with space.

 

[grimlock]

Chirp free! yay! *knocks on wood*

Tensioner shaft lubed, so far not one peep with the AC on!

I was doubtful it was going to make a difference, but I know now.

I do see a very slight play in the accessory belt, side to side... about half of 1mm. (yes very, very slight) I assume this is normal, however, I never noticed this before....

thanks to all for the info & help!

Richard