B4 4th 5th Gear Shifter play

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
Joined
Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
Calling all B4 gurus...

When up-shifting from 4th to 5th, or down-shifting from 4th to 3rd, it doesn't always shift into the correct gear. Whether I'm up-shifting or down-shifting, it wants to shift into 3rd gear. If I move the shifter side to side first, then it shifts into gear correctly. It's like the annoying reverse/1st issue but it moved up.

I looked at the linkage. Everything tight. I can move the counter weight up and down a good 1/2 inch. I don't remember that having that much play in it. Is something loose or worn out?

All advice is welcome, good advice is encouraged. ;)

:)
 
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Frans

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 25, 2011
Location
Netherlands
TDI
Golf MK2 TDI
How much side to side play is there in the gearbox selector/shifter axis?
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
Joined
Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
Not sure, probably too much. Tomorrow I'll try to take and post a video.
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Normal for the wieght to move up and down.

Two things - one, check the plastic linkage piece to see if it is starting to fall apart:



Remove the nut (arrow) and see if there is play on the stud (arrow) where it is molded into the plastic. They ususally come apart there, and the solution is a new piece - dieselgeek sells an all-metal updated piece.

Second, take a look at the bracket that part attaches to:



The black plastic block piece/part closest in that picture - look on your car where it engages into the fork/slide on the shift shaft - there should be very little up down play between the two parts - this is best accomplished by looking with a flashlight and having someone in the car move the shifter side to side.

the fix for this is to replace that plastic block (I think it comes as part of the bracket) or you can bend the slide piece to make it tighter (not too tight or it will be stiff to shift).

Ultimate fix is to convert the car over to the MK4 shifter style - much better.
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
Hey Brian, I've already got one customer on board for a shift linkage update for my cross-country trip to TDIFest this year. I could bring another set of shift cables, box and shift tower to convert yours too :)

You'll be MUCH MUCH happier with it. I promise.
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
Joined
Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
I'm in. Send me a PM on the details: price, time needed, your travel schedule, and what's your favorite beer.

Hey Brian, I've already got one customer on board for a shift linkage update for my cross-country trip to TDIFest this year. I could bring another set of shift cables, box and shift tower to convert yours too :)

You'll be MUCH MUCH happier with it. I promise.
 

john.jackson9213

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
Miramar, Ca. (Think Top Gun)
TDI
1996 B4V
Hey Brian, I've already got one customer on board for a shift linkage update for my cross-country trip to TDIFest this year. I could bring another set of shift cables, box and shift tower to convert yours too :)

You'll be MUCH MUCH happier with it. I promise.

Matt is not telling you a story!!!

I am so happy he did this on my car!!!! It REALLY is the only way to go!!!
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
Joined
Sep 25, 1997
Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
Matt did an A4 shifter swap on my car at TDIFest. We got rained out Saturday afternoon and finished up Sunday.

Something was loose on the B4 shift tower and we didn't bother to take it apart since we were replacing it anyway.

So how is the A4 shifter swap? FREAKING AWESOME! Worth all the time and effort. The shifter is now the most precise thing on the car.

With an A4 shifter you get options; an Audi TT short throw counter weight and 42 Draft Designs billet shift cable bushings.

Some shifter pr0n: The Audi TT short throw counter weight.



A better shot of the 42 Draft Designs billet shift cable bushings.


I really can't describe how tight and controlled the shifting is now. The car has a completely different feel to it.

:D
 

bbob203

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
Louisville, ky
TDI
b5.5v
Matt did an A4 shifter swap on my car at TDIFest. We got rained out Saturday afternoon and finished up Sunday.

Something was loose on the B4 shift tower and we didn't bother to take it apart since we were replacing it anyway.

So how is the A4 shifter swap? FREAKING AWESOME! Worth all the time and effort. The shifter is now the most precise thing on the car.

With an A4 shifter you get options; an Audi TT short throw counter weight and 42 Draft Designs billet shift cable bushings.

Some shifter pr0n: The Audi TT short throw counter weight.



A better shot of the 42 Draft Designs billet shift cable bushings.


I really can't describe how tight and controlled the shifting is now. The car has a completely different feel to it.

:D

This is what I'm running and It's great..!!
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Ok, since both of you are running this conversion, I've read that the standard 02J setup has a shorter throw than the standard 02A setup. Is this correct? Is the TT or Sigma setup even needed?

I've read the TT setup isn't really worth it, but the Sigma setup is notchy, although people end up liking the notchiness.

-Todd
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
The TT setup is absolutely worth it.

Don't even get me started on DG short shifters...
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
Ok, since both of you are running this conversion, I've read that the standard 02J setup has a shorter throw than the standard 02A setup. Is this correct? Is the TT or Sigma setup even needed?

I've read the TT setup isn't really worth it, but the Sigma setup is notchy, although people end up liking the notchiness.

-Todd
I'm also running the 02J shifter with the TT shorty. I tried the stock shifter at the start to see how it would feel, and it was fine, but the longitudinal throws were a bit long (however, they did feel less notchy). In the end, I went with the TT in my B4V 02J shifter setup and have been quite happy. Any 02J shifter is better than the carrot-in-a-food-processor shifter we received from the factory.

Note- if you also run a 2 gallon ww tank from a GLX, there will be some slight interference issues with the golf club and the tank on the TT shifter in 4th (and in my case 6th).

Some heating and bending may be required.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Don't even get me started on DG short shifters...
Can they be that bad...?


Any 02J shifter is better than the carrot-in-a-food-processor shifter we received from the factory.
I never really thought our shifters were terrible, but apparently I'm mistaken. I guess hamburger is ok, until you've had porterhouse.

Are you guys chopping out your tunnel brackets or running the Polo housing?

-Todd
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
No chopping on mine - I drilled a hole and massaged the tunnel slightly in order to allow the Jetta housing sit flush up against the tunnel. Others have spaced the housing down with washers or spacers.

Because I used the jetta shifter box/housing and didn't space it down, my shifter ended up a little high. so I cut it down about 1.5" and rethreaded the lever - quite happy with the result.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
Hmmm... No major gaps with your method or did you seal it with something?

-Todd
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
This may be the wy to go, then. I've heard you need to trim the rod a bit, so what's a little more? Thanks!

-Todd
 

bbob203

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
Louisville, ky
TDI
b5.5v
i chopped two front brackets on mine my reasoning being theyre is no better upgrade that i would have to worry about needing those brackets...
[/URL]
 

Matt-98AHU

Loose Nut Behind the Wheel Vendor
Joined
Apr 23, 2006
Location
Gresham, OR
TDI
2001 Golf TDI, 2005 Passat wagon, 2004 Touareg V10.
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?3344454

^This is the thread where I got my inspiration from. There are a couple differences as the thread pertains specifically to Corrados, but extremely similar for the most part. First conversion I did was on my own car, the '97 Jetta GLX swap. That was in early 2011 if I recall.

The front bracket that needs to be cut out of the Corrado is non-existant on the B4 Passat and Mk3 Jetta. So you don't have to worry about that step.

You do, however, need to cut away the left front portion of the opening in the chassis to clearance the lever mechanism.

I personally have been using the method in the above link where I install longer bolts in the front of the box and use spacers to keep it approximately level. I also elongate the holes on the back of the 02J shift box to line up with the square nuts welded to the rear mounting bracket for the shift box.

I use foam (sometimes carpet padding, I've also used other insulating foam a local kitchen and bathroom place in Maine literally gave to me for nothing) to fill in the gaps between the shift box and the body of the car. I like doing that as it usually ends up making the car even quieter than it was before. Plus the spacing means the shift lever isn't intruding as far into the chassis as before, the shift boot doesn't have to stretch and the lever is in a more normal position.

You can also use a Mk4 or newer shift knob on the car. I've done this with Brian's B4 Passat here as well as my own Mk3. My B4 has got a 6 speed knob out of a newer GTI. It seems to sit a fair bit lower on the lever than the standard 5 speed ones do, making the throws slightly shorter than with the Mk4 knob.

A number of these conversions I've also cut 12 x 1.50 mm threads in the top of the lever so you can use the original shift knob if so desired. It's a bit of a pain, though. And I'm pretty sure my Snap-on 12x1.50 die is a little worse for wear after doing a couple of these. Though, to be fair, that particular die got a lot of use in other repairs as well... Starting the threads on one of these levers is certainly not the easiest, though. The lever is a bit on the thick side for 12mm, but it's doable without shaving it down.

The biggest trick is sourcing shift towers, honestly. Many junkyards don't like removing an integral part of a transmission like that. Thank goodness for u-pull it style junkyards, though! They don't give a flying crap about what parts you take off their cars. Half the time they don't even know what it is I pull off the car when I show up with a shift tower. They'll fumble around in their computer system attempting to make up a name and price for it. As you can imagine, the prices I've paid for these parts are very inconsistent, even though I tend to source them from the same corporate junkyards (Pick-n-Pull in California).

Fortunately, early Mk4s are becoming a more common site in these style yards. Every time I go to one, I specifically am on the lookout for these shift linkages.

EDIT: Oh, also, I sometimes have to bend one of the intercooler pipe brackets upwards (the one behind the battery) a bit to ensure the shift weight doesn't hit the pipe when engaging 5th gear. That is a B4 Passat specific issue, though. The mk3 has the intercooler piping routed more towards the front of the car and away from the shift linkage.
 
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Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
I knew there was an A4 in the local junkyard and the owner gets insane crazy prices for parts. He runs the business to crush cars so he usually gets crush weight for parts, but sometimes it does depend on the part.

I went there today with the expectation the A4 would be crushed, but there it was. I asked about it and the shifter assembly and he said if his crew wasn't so lazy it would have been crushed already.

I managed to get the whole shifter setup with the tower for $20, along with a keyless entry module for the B4, some hubcaps, and a CV boot shield. I also scored some ECU's for a member on here but those were extra.

I'll toss it in at some point but I have a lot of other irons in the fire right now. I'm hoping it's as smooth as everyone says, the shift bushings in my sedan are plan worn out. The other two shift exceptionally well though, so it'll be a good comparison.
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
mild hijack here... sorry.

our junkyard takes the tires off and sets the cars on their floor pans so you cant get under them. can the parts i need be remove from an A4 jetta/golf be removed from the inside of the car?

the only other option the junkyard gave me was to flip the car on it side with the forklift but they dont seem ambitious enough to actually do it for me because they then have to stand around while i pull the parts so they can put it back on its belly after.
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
No, the shifter tower must come out through the bottom, unless you can cut the transmission tunnel out of the car from the top. You will have to move the exhaust out of the way as well for it to clear.
 

ToddA1

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 3, 2011
Location
NJ 08002
TDI
'96 B4V, '97 B4 (sold), '97 Jetta (scrapped)
I managed to get the whole shifter setup with the tower for $20, along with a keyless entry module for the B4, some hubcaps, and a CV boot shield.

I used to have a place like that but he rarely ever got VWs in. Amazing price; I thought I did well with $110 shipped for the needed parts. I guess I can rationalize that I just sat and waited for them to arrive. My hands stayed clean, lol.


can the parts i need be remove from an A4 jetta/golf be removed from the inside of the car?

I'd say no. The exhaust and the heatshield need to be dropped to pull the shift box and cables. The tower, yes. The lower receiver, is located on the bottom of the trans. Grab it, you may need it.

-Todd
 

Windex

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Location
Cambridge
TDI
05 B5V 01E FRF
These cars and the necessary junkyard runs are good therapy.

For getting the needed bits off at a pick and pull, there are usually spare tire jacks littering up the place, so jack up the front of the car, then support it with some steel rims to make it stable enough to get underneath.

As above, you will need to get the exhaust out of the way - a cordless reciprocating saw helps immensely here.
 

ketchupshirt88

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Location
waupaca, WI
TDI
2005 Passat daily, a bunch of others in the graveyard out back...
i guess i just didnt think about just cutting the floor (tunnel) around the stick out to do it from the top. ill at least give it a shot next time im at the yard. thanks for the idea.

i knew i needed the tower from the top of the trans but why would i need the bottom part? are some A3's a different style of shift tower on the trans and thus not compatible with the A4 shift towers?

i know i can get the parts out of the trans by jacking the engine up but they dont even leave rims on the yard so i have nothing to stack under the car to hold it up safely for me to be willing to go under it like that for the shift box
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Location
Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
TDI
Only the B4V left
Oh man, I wish, but the wife would kill me. I build and rehab old bicycles when I can't get to the junkyard and have a complete bike shop in the basement with three repair stands and all the tools.
 
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