Audi's 3.0 TDI "Cleanest Diesel in the World"

chewy

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2006
Location
CA
TDI
None
Lug_Nut said:
Cleanest diesel
Lowest calorie lard
Least carcinogenic cigarette

Sorry, but as much as I like my diesels, being the best of an admittedly not all that clean group doesn't confer bragging rights.
The VW/Audi TDIs get a 6 on the EPA clean rating scale. Many gasoline powered cars (including GM hybrids) get a 6 as well. About a dozen gasoline powered cars get less than a 6 rating (Dodges/Jeeps/Lexus/Scion) Almost every "heavy duty "truck" regardless of gas or diesel engine gets less than a 6 (3 or lower) The F-250/E series vans and so on are a lot dirtier than the passanger diesels sold by the Germans.

As for vehicles that get better than 6, gas powered vehicles sold in CARB states and around them usually get a 7. Many gas powered cars have a 9.5 rating in CARB states because they are PZEV (the 2.5 and 2.0T VWs have that) Most hybrids have that rating in CARB states, hybrids get a lower 8 rating in non CARB states. GM hybrids get a 6 in all states.

Basically any new TDI/German diesel powered car will be as clean according to the EPA as most gasoline powered cars. Especially in non CARB states. It will be a lot cleaner than any pre 2005 cars, even some first gen Toyota Prius.

Also, all particulate equipped diesels will have spotless exhausts, not all gasoline cars have that even the PZEVs (including hybrids) have sooty exhausts.
 

donfromnaples

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 23, 2005
Location
Naples, Florida
TDI
2004 New Beetle Blue and 2009 Jetta TDI Sportwagon
Let's not forget the million Prius customers who were promised 60 mpg and actually achieved 44 mpg. Hybrid diesels are still a good alternative that I really hope will become available in the U.S. over the next 2 to 3 years.
 

Mike in Anchorage

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
2016 Touareg Lux, 2015 Golf Sportwagen SE, new 4 Sept 2017;2009 VW Jetta TDI Sportwagen (Ruby) sold to VW on 22 SEP 2017
clint440 said:
when i hear about diesel naysayers. As people do not realize the extent of diesel fuel in terms impact. Agriculture and infrastructure is because of DIESEL. Diesel is used because it is EFFICIENT when taken into consideration with all the other attributes it posseses which in my opinion far outweighs whatever peceived toxic pollution they spew out, according to diesel haters.

It just seems as their [sic] is a conspiracy in the US against diesel engines, even though they are pretty darn clean now adays.

The US is very ignorant about diesels to put it politely. When say the US, I mean the govt, elitist media and people who all believe their hogwash and cant apply common sense.
I can see your point. Since I live in Alaska, I think a large part of the "conspiracy" is with big oil. If they can make more buck$ by sending the diesel to other countries, they will. Diesel here is continuing to be
$ 1.00 M O R E than RUG. :eek: It ain't because we don't have the crude. If you haven't read the papers, a good portion of the Alaska legislature is in jail due to "gifts" from oil companies. Yes, Uncle Ted got off on his rap due to a technicality, but there is little doubt he accepted the $250,000 in gifts unknowingly.

The legislature is considering a bill to make all fuel in Alaska no more than 10% over the similar stuff in Seattle. Do you think that bill will get through? Look into Sarah Palin's eyes and see if you see supreme intelligence. Or do you see "bought out by big oil?"
 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
tiguando said:
So when will they offer the 3.0 TDI in the Audi A4 here in the U.S.?
As a die-hard Cubs fan, I believe I have the answer to your question:

Wait 'til next year.
 

D_Bill

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 13, 2006
Location
SE Pa
TDI
old_v1 - 01 jetta / old_v2 02 golf / new 13 jsw-6sp
wxman said:
FYI - I've put together a "research clearinghouse" of references involving diesel vs. gas emissions and their impacts on air quality (see sig).

. . .

.
Wxman's link in his "sig" about gas-v-diesel is long but cool !

Would this be a valid summary of stuff that I think debunks all the propoganda coming from pseudo science ?

> European diesels have lower emissions than gassers

> Gassers have super-micro PM's that are worse than the pm's of diesels ( and in fact are so small as to not be measured ( why ? ) by EPA/CARB equipment - 1 micron -v- 10 micron for diesel ? )

> Gassers have volatile toxic/carcinogenic vapors that are not measured and are non existent in diesel - ie formaldehyde, benzene, etc etc - why not part of EPA/CARB standards ?

> There are laboratory diesel hybrids that match the emissions of fuel cell counterparts ( see link in wxman's sig )

> Some ( many ? ) believe Big Oil/Energy has far too many politicians ( and Agencies ? ) in their pocket

> Biodiesel reduces diesel emissions even further

> B100 from algae would lower diesels carbon footprint to zero - whats burned is ( re ) claimed from the atomosphere - take that you prius owners !

> My own opinion here would be that the only thing that could be more cool than a (bio) diesel vehicle would be pure solar/photovoltaic cell electric with the capacity for me to drive cross country . . . in no more than five days ( or at night ? ? ? ).


'Course I'm preaching to the choir - but think I got the gist of it - did I miss something(s) ?
 
Last edited:

MacBuckeye

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2009 Jetta
What emmisions?

In response to some of the first posts, I'm very impressed with the little to zero emmisions from my new 09 TDi. My wife's new Honda Accord pollutes like no other. Just the time it takes her to pull out of the garage and go to work, my garage stinks to high heaven of exhaust fumes. I can run my new Jetta TDi for a lot longer and not smell anything. That amazes me!! And yes, after 9,500 miles not a spec of dirt/filth on my pipes. An atta-boy for the VW clean diesel team!

PS
Do Not attempt to leave you new TDi running in the garage. I'm sure at some point it will be bad for you. ;)
 

wandlc

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Location
Visalia, CA
TDI
2000 NB GLS TDI
cptmox said:
http://www.everymilesamemory.com/diesel_fact_page.htm

Summary

Diesel motors are better than petrol motors with reference to carbon dioxide, the global warming gas.

Diesel motors are better than petrol motors with reference to carbon monoxide, a poison.

Diesel motors are better than petrol motors with reference to hydrocarbons which cause cancer.

Diesel motors are similar to petrol motors with reference to nitrous oxides, which cause smog.

Diesel motors are worse than petrol motors with reference to particulates, which have unproved health impacts.
Diesel cars don't have the hydrcarbon volatile emissions of gasoline which cause more smog than NOx. Also, the additives in gasoline such as the banned MTBE are very harmful.
 

wxman

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
TDI
Other Diesel
D_Bill said:
///> Gassers have super-micro PM's that are worse than the pm's of diesels ( and in fact are so small as to not be measured ( why ? ) by EPA/CARB equipment - 1 micron -v- 10 micron for diesel ? )
EPA/CARB regulate PM by mass, and it's total particulate matter (TPM) mass at that. Since ultrafine particles (generally defined as particles having a diameter of less than 100 nanometers (0.1 micrometers)) are now thought to have greater impact on human health per unit mass than PM10 (particles having a diameter of less than 10 micrometers (10,000 nanometers)) or even PM2.5 (particles having a diameter of less than 2.5 micrometers (2500 nanometers)), regulating PM by mass is obsolete, in my opinion. The metric should be particle number in addition to, if not in lieu of, particle mass.

In general, gasoline engines easily meet the existing PM mass regulations. However, that's mainly because, as you point out, gas engines emit extremely small particles which have virtually no mass; the smallest size category (e.g., 10 nanometers) typically represents the largest number of particles of any size category. In the Ecotraffic (Sweden) study, the gas vehicles emitted particles in the 5 nm size category at numbers greater than the uncontrolled diesel vehicles under all test conditions.

D_Bill said:
> Gassers have volatile toxic/carcinogenic vapors that are not measured and are non existent in diesel - ie formaldehyde, benzene, etc etc - why not part of EPA/CARB standards ?
Formaldehyde and benzene are starting to be regulated as "air toxics". Ambient levels of benzene, in particular, are overwhelmingly produced by gasoline mobile sources.

Gasoline vapors contain air toxics that EPA refers to as "BTEX" - benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene, xylene.
 

wxman

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 26, 1999
Location
East TN, USA
TDI
Other Diesel
wandlc said:
Diesel cars don't have the hydrcarbon volatile emissions of gasoline which cause more smog than NOx. Also, the additives in gasoline such as the banned MTBE are very harmful.
Actually, NOx produces ozone ("smog") because of NMHC/VOC. The oxidation of hydrocarbons in the atmosphere produces peroxy radicals which interfere with the NOx photolytic cycle.

NOx in and of itself will not produce net ozone because ozone is detroyed as fast as it's produced without the interference from the peroxy radicals.
 

DieselCruz

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 28, 2006
Location
Santa Cruz, Ca
TDI
2002 VW Golf TDI - Silver/Auto
Positive media review of the A3 2.0 TDI this morning:
2010 Audi A3 2.0 TDI Diesel

Only you and your fuel pump will know it's a diesel

By Ron Amadon, MarketWatch
Last update: 6:01 a.m. EDT April 18, 2009
Comments: 16



WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) -- A car that has always ranked high on the personal favorite list has now decided to go the Fred Frugal route.


Audi has popped a clean-burning, 2.0 liter, turbocharged diesel under the hood of the A3, good for 140-horsepower and 236 lb-ft of torque. How clean is it? Scheduled to go on sale here in the U.S. in the first quarter of next year, the A3 TDI meets the pollution standards in all 50 states.

Out on the road, the A3 TDI is a frisky devil. The McPherson front suspension and multilink independent rear along with good feedback make the A3 a true German road car with such good manners that even your mother-in-law will not complain about the ride. (I think.)
Power delivery could be a little more linear in its response so go easy with the right foot until you become more familiar with the car. At speed, the A3 is fairly quiet, certainly enough to hear your team take another step toward the World Series this fall or the market gain another 200 points. OK, optimism runs rampant in the spring.
The A3 diesel is good for zero to 100 kilometers, or 62 miles per hour, in 8.9 seconds. While that is slower than a gasoline engine-powered A3, the diesel felt faster from the driver's seat.
At first, the acceleration really caught my eye when I saw the needle at 100. Oops, this is a European spec car, and that is kilometers. Fortunately, there was a digital read out in miles per hour in the center of the instrument cluster to keep me in good graces with the polizei (those friendly folks with radar, speed cameras, and blue lights.)
The engine is, in essence, the same that I praised in the Jetta TDI. See previous Auto Review.
No matter where the Audi was and regardless of the driving situation one would never know from the inside that a diesel was present. The lone exception was with the window open inside a concrete walled underground parking garage. Even then, the noise was subdued.
The days of clatter, black smoke and foul smells is over, folks, and it is time to concede that the Europeans might be on to something with their love of the modern diesel engine. Audi claims 40 miles per gallon on the highway, while I registered 36 in all types of traffic conditions, from the big city to back country roads (a blast), to the interstates.
The test A3 came through with the fine S-tronic dual clutch automated manual transmission with front-wheel drive.
Class inside
Inside, the A3 diesel is classy enough to have brought the new first dog to the White House. It was easy to get comfortable behind the wheel while fit, finish, and materials were all first rate. Other makers would do well to look at what VW and Audi are doing inside their cars. (There is an appalling trend toward the use of too much hard plastic in too many cars, even in what are supposed to be padded armrests.)
Audi could have left off the gaudy red TDI lettering on both doors -- a bit of overkill in my opinion. Perhaps it will be missing on the models that come to these shores. See slide show.
The rear seats in this hatch are not for adults, but kids might like them. They fold easily to create not quite flat storage space. It is good for hauling groceries and good German beer, but you might want to find another way to bring home your new 60-inch flat-panel television. That is assuming this recession ever ends.
Audi has not announced pricing for the diesel A3, something that will come closer to its arrival in the U.S. You would be safe betting on a price somewhere north of $31,000, I would guess
In return, you will get an economical, long-lasting, nicely trimmed car that many just might find to be more fun than a hybrid anything else.
 

cptmox

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2001
Location
Villa Park, IL.
TDI
01 Jetta GLS, Silver 5-spd
That does it, I want one!

But, is it worth the extra scratch over say...a loaded sportwagen? I think some spirited test driving in the name of research is in order.
 

MrSprdSheet

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 6, 2005
Location
East Coast
TDI
'09 JSW TDI
35% better fuel consumption over gassers answers the question about CO2 emissions. If Rudolf Diesel were still alive he would be grinning from ear to ear.
Compared to what? Direct ignition gassers are more efficient, while the latest TDI's favor power. The gap is coser to 20-25%

A TDI VW can run over 200,000 miles easy unlike a gasser and a hybrid is going to even have shorter life span. So how is building more throw away cars more economical?
Throw away? The Prius fleet has plenty of examples of high milers, yet try to google up all the "throw away" stories and see what you find. Not enough batteries have even failed yet to give rise to a secondary market for them, and they're supposedly going to drop to 1k-2k in price when this happens. That's assuming the 100-150k mile warranty doesn't apply.

Going Electric? First find a car, then make sure it's legal-by the time you build a crashworthy car chances are the weight will be right up there.
Cars generically weigh a little over 3000lbs. The new Ford Fussion Hybrid (EPA 41 City) comes in at 3300. Its a mid-sizer. Big deal.

Alot of the shine is..because no one has figured out all the drawbacks...People run like lemmings because the label says "new", some of us like to see what's in the box first to find out if it's just a fresh take on the SOS.
And which direction do the lemmings run? Regenerative brakes aren't "SOS". They are, head and shoulders improvements that are part of a marvelous technological package. One that, for some reason, gets bastardized by public, or political, sentiment.

Some times I wonder what car guys are anymore. Seems like everyone's a fanatic these days. The Car & Driver culture has disowned the "diesel breath" (their words) crowd, while the cars are so much better. C&D itself was, until recently, having an identity crisis of its own about hybrid technology. The same guys who were once into nuts and bolts, now have to play arm chair politics and miss the point about where things are going. Its the cars, stupid. Just focus on, and try to get excited about, THE CARS.
 

darrenf

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2008
Location
Durham, NC
TDI
09 JSW TDI Black/Black, Pano, Avignons
I saw a white Q7 TDI pulling out of the dealership in Cary, NC today. It had no license plate and a bunch of TDI stickers on it. Are these available to the public already or is VW going the demo route that they did with the '09 Jetta TDI?

-darren
 

bluengreen

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2008
Location
Hauppauge NY
TDI
2012 Passat, 2009 Jetta, had 1985
Quote:
Going Electric? First find a car, then make sure it's legal-by the time you build a crashworthy car chances are the weight will be right up there.
Reply: Cars generically weigh a little over 3000lbs. The new Ford Fussion Hybrid (EPA 41 City) comes in at 3300. Its a mid-sizer. Big deal.

--------------------------------------------------------------
Response:The Fusion is not an Electric car, it is a hybrid car. A twofer gas engine powertrain + battery powertrain. Not the same thing, but still having a battery liability which proponents refuse to acknowledge. Since the original post, smaller gassers like the Smart 4 2 and like sized "clown cars"
have horribly failed crash testing. Original point - reinforced.

Quote:
Alot of the shine is..because no one has figured out all the drawbacks...People run like lemmings because the label says "new", some of us like to see what's in the box first to find out if it's just a fresh take on the SOS.
Reply:
And which direction do the lemmings run? Regenerative brakes aren't "SOS". They are, head and shoulders improvements that are part of a marvelous technological package. One that, for some reason, gets bastardized by public, or political, sentiment.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Response:
Lemmings run in the wrong direction, that's what makes them lemmings.
The quote has nothing to do with regenerative brakes- all hail the regenerative brake. Technological drawbacks do not know any politics, they simply exist. Lithium batteries are loaded with disposal problems. Pushing the peas around the plate doesn't make them disappear- disadvantages include ALL the ones related to running a technology. We only fool ourselves if we cherry pick only the disadvantages we "like", that is where the politics comes in. Pollution doesn't only come from CO2, superfund sites don't clean up CO2 or particulates and no one wants to drink well water from the middle of one. Remember how fast people stumbled over each other for corn based Ethanol- and of course that had no disadvantages. :rolleyes:
Electric cars will require massive copper mining both for themselves and for infrastructure to deliver the juice, not politics -fact.
 

Dusty Sidewinds

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 2, 2008
Location
Langley, WA
TDI
2006 Jetta
I don't care what my friends drive and they don't care what I drive. I'm an individual and make my own decisions based mostly on intuition and thinking. I drive a Jetta diesel and enjoy it, especially the 45mpg average fuel economy along with the present fuel cost of $2.15 a gallon here.

I don't buy the global warming BS and would not call myself Grean either as one of my other cars is a 2008 Corvette and I still use a 2003 Jeep with the old Chrysler 318 V8 and a worn out cat.

The worlds polution problem is caused by overpopulation. Eliminate half the humans and proplem solved.

The idea of calling CO2 a problem is a joke. The more CO2 in the air the better will grow all plant life.
 

TDIMOFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Location
Playa del Rey
TDI
2009 Jstta TDI
clint440 said:
This carbon footprint, clean up the air is so blown out of proportion. I don't see any damn efficiency out of a hybrid when it is far more complex with 2 completey different powertrains. That is just a way for dealers and govt to make more money on services and have batteries replaced.

I think the power, efficiency, mileage, and durability are always forgotten with shortsighted environmentalists! If a Semi that pulls 50 to 80,000 lbs on a engine that can last a million miles is pretty damn efficient compared to how many gassers it would take to haul the same volume with FAR shorter engine life.

A TDI VW can run over 200,000 miles easy unlike a gasser and a hybrid is going to even have shorter life span. So how is building more throw away cars more economical?

Only in America can we have so many ignorant people! Europe has been running diesels for years and they don't have smog problems. And the EPA is more stringent than Europes air quality standards. explain that? just some far left lobbysts making money behind there hyprocasy

Just wondering. How do they make money? Proof?
TDIMOFO
 

TDIMOFO

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2008
Location
Playa del Rey
TDI
2009 Jstta TDI
Dusty Sidewinds said:
I don't care what my friends drive and they don't care what I drive. I'm an individual and make my own decisions based mostly on intuition and thinking. I drive a Jetta diesel and enjoy it, especially the 45mpg average fuel economy along with the present fuel cost of $2.15 a gallon here.

I don't buy the global warming BS and would not call myself Grean either as one of my other cars is a 2008 Corvette and I still use a 2003 Jeep with the old Chrysler 318 V8 and a worn out cat.

The worlds polution problem is caused by overpopulation. Eliminate half the humans and proplem solved.

The idea of calling CO2 a problem is a joke. The more CO2 in the air the better will grow all plant life.

Which half do you propose to remove? Playing god? Wishing for a pandemic? Hope to not become a victim?
 

wolfskin

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 30, 2008
Location
Timisoara/Romania
TDI
Skoda Fabia Combi TDI
Dusty Sidewinds said:
a) The worlds polution problem is caused by overpopulation. Eliminate half the humans and proplem solved.

b) The idea of calling CO2 a problem is a joke. The more CO2 in the air the better will grow all plant life.
a) I don't suppose you'd be willing to volunteer? Me. for one, I'll be happy to keep my family alive (all of them), and try to use the availbale resources efficiently.

b) Well, than you'll have plenty opportunity to laugh at that joke in the decades to come, ever harder by the year...
 

gmcjetpilot

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2008
Location
Memphis TN
TDI
2010 JSW TDI DSG Matalic Grey
Motorweek review 5/16/2009 - Audi A3 TSI

PBS / Motorweek TV just had a A3 TDI review (they usually repeat it on Speed the following weekend so check you listing).

Here is my "transcript" of the review.

Available USA early 2010
Test mileage 42.7 mpg (WOW) :)

2.0L I4 TDI common rail (same as VW TDI)
140HP, 236 Lb-ft torque
S-tronic dual clutch tans, FWD Drive
NO urea injection NOX trap like VW

Accel 0-60 time - 8.7 sec
1/4 mile time/speed - 16.9 sec/83 mph
(about ~1.5 sec slower than 2006 Audi A3 2.0T gasser)
prodigious torque (daha was know) and feels faster than times

Handling nice like A3 sport sedan
based on gulf rabbit chassis
4 corner independent suspension
good handling, hint of push
min body roll-in hard slalom cornering
When pushed rear starts to get light followed by front
stability control stays out of way until needed

17" alloys
4 wheel ABS disk
Stopping - 120 feet 60-0 mph
Firm peddle

new drop jaw grill (cross over sedan/mini suv style)
Design, no discernible diff look than standard gas A3
new for 2010 new bumper and side mirrors with turn signals
new dash from 2008, more modern lay out for 2010
seats are law slung (height adj) w/ good bolster for spirited driving
Leather wrapped steering wheel
duel zone climate control with pollen filter
Good standard stereo
Optional Bose stereo 6 disk in-dash changer
option, two piece glass roof with sunshade recommended
8 air bags including two read seat side bags
rear seat for under 6 footers who will run out of head and leg room
hatch back cargo 19.5 cu-ft (seat up)
fold down back seat split & pass through for more cargo / longer items
price unknown but $28,000 est

Motorweek says the car makes you want to drive it and will be a big success.

In my opinion this is very exciting. I wanted a 2009 VW TDI wagen by have to say the Audi is better looking in the Cross over. I like the VW nose better but the Audi A3TDI has a more aggressive "athletic" look than the VW TDI Wagen (which they discontinued for 2010?). The down side is about ~$4,500 more than the VW sedan TDI Jetta.

NEXT week they are doing TDI VW sport wagen. They already did the sedan.
 
Last edited:
Top