Audi bringing A4 TDI to US- 190 hp/295 lb/ft

[Jetter_Sprinta]

They are already offering the FWD A3 sedan with TDI as an automatic. All indicators are that they will also offer the hatch version as a 2016, FWD & auto, of course. Back during the auto shows, the reps were saying the lift back version would be available late summer. Nothing yet.

There was a brand new Golf Sportwagen parked behind my 07 A4 wagon yesterday. It looked a good bit larger than my Audi, especially around the tailgate. And it was a beautiful dark blue TDI. I couldn't get a good angle.

People around Boston seem to like wagons. With the Outback getting bigger and taller every year, finding a true wagon is harder to do. I still like the 328d wagon with European delivery. If Audi does offer an A4 wagon in the near future, it might make the choice harder. For one thing, I like Audi red much better than BMW red.


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[Random_Vibration]

They are already offering the FWD A3 sedan with TDI as an automatic. All indicators are that they will also offer the hatch version as a 2016, FWD & auto, of course. Back during the auto shows, the reps were saying the lift back version would be available late summer.

I know the A3 is FWD in TDI form in the US. The subject of this thread is the A4 thus when I say "it", it means A4. When I say they will probably pull an A3 and make it TDI in FWD only it means they probably will pull an A3 and make the A4 TDI in FWD only.

 

[frugality]

With falling fuel prices, diesels become harder to justify in the consumer market.

The problem is that 'the consumer market' generally doesn't know how to operate a calculator.

When I bought my 2000 Golf TDI, fuel was $1.25/gallon and the upcharge for a TDI was $1250. The break-even point was 70,000 miles with those numbers. I had the car up to 284k miles before selling it to r90sKirk, who has it up over 420k miles now.

Today fuel prices are higher, but so is the TDI upcharge. Maybe $2500? Still, with fuel prices having been as much as $4.50/gallon, and usually in the $3.xx/gallon range, the payoff period is more like 35,000 miles.

The kicker is the more complex fuel delivery and exhaust systems. Even those of us who like diesels are wondering about the financial viability of diesels with these problems. The upside is -- like catalytic converters were problematic and people deleted them, now they're pretty much a non-issue -- DPF systems will become more robust. When I bought my 2010 CR TDI, I knew I was going to be something of a guinea pig. So far, I haven't had reason to regret it.

 

[frugality]

Yeah, that's a bit of a head-scratcher. The Golf Wagon is too similar to the Audi A3/A4 wagons, and is pretty much a cannibalistic marketing move.

Delete one of the wagons, and give us the Polo, please.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Except that right now there aren't any A3 or A4 wagons, just the Allroad and the Q3, which I don't think has been launched yet. And no wagons with TDIs from Audi...yet.

 

[waltzconmigo]

sprinta---I thought the Audi A3 was larger than the Golf from the A pillar back, and it looks like from you photo that the A4 is larger than the golf wagon from the A pillar back, could just be the angle of the photo.

 

[Jetter_Sprinta]

Sorry, 1) it's Jetter, and my Audi is a 2007 a4 2.0t gasser (and I do love it) I was in a rush and didn't get the right view where my car looked small next to that pretty Golf wagon.. But it really did. The rear of the GSW looks like it has more space.
2) if Audi and VW would listen to me, I want a simple wagon. I have to carry crap 300 miles all the time. I know how to drive in snow, so AWD is not necessary. Add to that, I am middle aged, so I want heated seats and logical a/c. I'll admit I want heated steering wheel. Not that complicated and I don't think I'm that unique.


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[IndigoBlueWagon]

Except for the heated wheel the GSW has what you'd like. And the higher trim levels are really nice inside with better seats (heated). And you can get rid of that pesky automatic. Wait for 2016 (now, really) for better stereo interface.

I really like the new GSW, but I already have a simple wagon.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I was in the neighborhood today so I stopped at our local Audi dealer to look at the A3. I've seen it at a couple of auto shows but I wanted to get a look without someone breathing down my neck to sit in it after me.

My reaction? What a small, expensive car. I don't think it's any bigger inside than my A4 Jetta. I could sit behind myself, but I can easily do that in my wagon (mostly because I'm short). And it's pretty easy to hit a 40K sticker with the TDI, more with the quattro gasserss. Not a lot of value there. The trunk is tiny, high floor, miniscule opening. Almost useless.

I asked whether there will be a Q3 diesel. No. And if any of the next gen A4s will have manual transmissions. No.

I like Audis. But their product mix has moved away from me. Must be for older people.

 

[frugality]

I like 'cozy' cars. I think I'd like the A3. Small trunk, as noted, but has great reviews. Half tempted to get a Fiesta ST, or Ecoboost that gets 37mpg average.

A friend of mine who's a former amateur rally car driver has the philosophy that a car should be 'worn', like a garment. I think he had a 240Z as a rally car.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I like small cars, too. Part of why I've hung on to my MKIV is because the newer ones are bigger than I like. And the driver's seat was fine. The rear seat was small, and that's a big downside of my wagon. And I do have to carry stuff pretty often. I bet I couldn't fit my recycling bin in the trunk of the A3. Or an exhaust system, which I frequently pick up at our fabricators. Or a window air conditioner.

I like the Fiesta as well. Friend of mine has one, loves it. Looked at a TDI but the Fiesta was much less money. Just don't expect a lot in the interior finishes department.

 

[gmcjetpilot]

I know the A3 is FWD in TDI form in the US. The subject of this thread is the A4 thus when I say "it", it means A4. When I say they will probably pull an A3 and make it TDI in FWD only it means they probably will pull an A3 and make the A4 TDI in FWD only.

I looked at Audi web site. I did not see the A3 TDI hatch that they use to have. I looked on eBay and saw a few used 2010 versions. I test drove one way back when in 2010....

WHEN DID THE DISCONTINUE THE 2.0L (VW ENGINE) IN THE A3 HATCH?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

They now sell the Q3, same platform as the A3 (and Golf/GSW) but Quattro and 2.0L TSI only. Too bad, it's kind of a nice CUV.

 

[Jetter_Sprinta]

WHEN DID THE DISCONTINUE THE 2.0L (VW ENGINE) IN THE A3 HATCH?

My memory is sketchy, but I think Audi discontinued the A3--which was only available in the US as a hatch--about 1.5 years ago in anticipation of their redesigned sedan launch in 2015. The hatch is allegedly coming soon as 2016.

Totally off topic, but I like the A3 Cabriolet a lot. Now if it was available in TDI....

 

[WagenFan]

I'm still betting on this coming in TDI Quattro form.

Btw, Mercedes has confirmed the C300d 4-matic will go on sale at US dealers in Feb 2016

 

[frugality]

I looked at Audi web site. I did not see the A3 TDI hatch that they use to have. I looked on eBay and saw a few used 2010 versions. I test drove one way back when in 2010....

WHEN DID THE DISCONTINUE THE 2.0L (VW ENGINE) IN THE A3 HATCH?

You have the same internet that the rest of us have, but I'm always up for aiding and abetting the lazy.

http://www.edmunds.com/audi/a3/2013/wagon/st-200421450/used/?tab-id=reviews-tab

There was no A3 hatchback/wagon at all for 2014, TDI or otherwise. Click '2014' and 'Audi'.....no A3's at all for that model year.....see how easy that was?

http://www.edmunds.com/used-cars/

Edmunds had written on their 2015 A3 sedan review that a wagon was coming in fall 2015 as a 2016 model year, but I can't find that in the A3 sedan description anymore.

 

[2.2TDI]

I'm still betting on this coming in TDI Quattro form.
Btw, Mercedes has confirmed the C300d 4-matic will go on sale at US dealers in Feb 2016

Link? And wouldn't it be a C250 Bluetec just like they have the E250 and GLK250 bluetec

 

[WagenFan]

Link? And wouldn't it be a C250 Bluetec just like they have the E250 and GLK250 bluetec

http://www.automotive-fleet.com/new...des-benz-to-offer-diesel-c-class-in-2016.aspx

https://www.cars.com/articles/2016-mercedes-benz-c-class-whats-changed-1420680679643/

http://www.emercedesbenz.com/autos/...c-300-d-4matic-sets-new-record-at-pikes-peak/

I believe it's the same engine as the current 250 Bluetecs, just typical badge naming trickery. Since they no longer offer a C250 in the US, they do not want the diesel C-Class to appear lesser than the base C300 gasser, especially since the diesel version will likely carry a small price premium.

The GLE300d has also been announced, which is the replacement to the M250 Bluetec

 

[volksjaeger]

Whatever it is I'd buy it for the cluster display. I love that.

Am I the only one left on this planet that prefers old fashioned analog dials and a manual?
No thanks to this Audi. I'll stick with my '02 TDI Wagon as my daily driver and my old school throwback GT4 coming in November.

 

[frugality]

Am I the only one left on this planet that prefers old fashioned analog dials and a manual?

I prefer throwing my wash in a washer and drier, rather than hand-scrubbing and wringing.

Even the exotic sports cars have gone away from manual transmissions, opting for dual-clutch autos.

There's nothing inherently superior about a manual transmission. In fact, it's a very crude technology. Back when cars were invented, there was a battle as to whether steam or electric or gas powerplants would be the prevailing technology. Steam and electric don't need multiple gears. Gas prevailed due to its energy content, but needed multiple gears as cars surpassed 30mph. Manual transmissions are long overdue for obsolescence.

There are folks who don't like CVT transmissions, too. They feel that a car needs to surge and pulse in order to 'feel' like you're accelerating. It's not that it needs to be that way, it's just that over the decades of crude multiple-geared transmissions (manual and auto) were used, it's what people have come to expect. If electric cars had prevailed back in the 190x's, everyone would expect SMOOTH power delivery from a car, and would think the herky-jerky on-and-off power of a crude manual transmission would be intolerable. It wouldn't be 'a driver's car', it would be a piece of junk.

The ideal scenario is that you put your foot down and get seamless, smooth power from a crawl up to top speed.

I don't keep a buggy whip in my car.

 

[52172]

Manual trannys are lighter and outlast the manual shifting autos. That's another reason to like them even more.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Am I the only one left on this planet that prefers old fashioned analog dials and a manual?
No thanks to this Audi. I'll stick with my '02 TDI Wagon as my daily driver and my old school throwback GT4 coming in November.

No, you're not. I'm still driving my '02 wagon and plan to for the foreseeable future. But I saw that display in a TT and I thought it was neat. I don't know how I'd like the "fake" instruments in use.

There's another thread here that goes on endlessly about how everyone should read the writing on the wall and succumb to automatic transmissions. Despite my post above I'd be hard-pressed to buy a car with an automatic. And a CVT is a certain deal-breaker. I don't think it's archaic to want the engine speed to have some relationship to road speed.

Automakers are phasing out manuals because demand is low and it's easier to meet emissions standards with automatics. But a very few manufacturers continue ot offer manuals in cars I'd want (Mazda, Honda, BMW, and, of course VW). Good enough for me.

 

[Random_Vibration]

I prefer throwing my wash in a washer and drier, rather than hand-scrubbing and wringing...

...Even the exotic sports cars have gone away from manual transmissions, opting for dual-clutch autos....

..There's nothing inherently superior about a manual transmission....

...In fact, it's a very crude technology...

...Manual transmissions are long overdue for obsolescence...

...I don't keep a buggy whip in my car.

Electric motors and batteries predate the manual transmission. There's no need to be overly dramatic about washing machines and buggy whips since its of no value in this conversation. Manual transmissions do have technical advantages...better yet to use your terminolgy 'superior'. They simpler to build and repair. Also from a mechanical engineering perspective, they have less failure points. In some other nations, it is the transmission of choice because of it's simplicity. In Africa, I never rented automatics because field repairs aren't going to happen if the automatic fails.

Please spare the silly comparisons. I have a bicycle and somehow I'm not being accused of being a leddite. I go kayaking yet I'm not being accused of being a technological hold out. There are choices people make based upon preferences. That is something your little diatribe seems to ignore. I enjoy riding my bike and I enjoy driving manual transmissions.

I have a sixteen core workstation at my desk that can solve a broad array of fluid dynamics, thermal, and structural problems but I don't run to it every time technical problem arrives. A pencil, a piece of paper, and a calculator will due in many cases. I like having choices and being able to select my mode based upon wants and needs. I design components for rockets, missiles, and bombs so I spent my days on the frontier of what is possible. I'd like motor home in a conveyance of my choice.

As long as manuals are available, I will own atleast one.

 

[tadawson]

While I am relatively indifferent on the transmission issue, I do prefer analog dials over the incomprehensible video game dashboards being used today. Gone are the days of a quick and easy panel scan to see that all is well.

- Tim

Am I the only one left on this planet that prefers old fashioned analog dials and a manual?
No thanks to this Audi. I'll stick with my '02 TDI Wagon as my daily driver and my old school throwback GT4 coming in November.

 

[volksjaeger]

I prefer throwing my wash in a washer and drier, rather than hand-scrubbing and wringing.
Even the exotic sports cars have gone away from manual transmissions, opting for dual-clutch autos.
There's nothing inherently superior about a manual transmission. In fact, it's a very crude technology.

Looks like you should just take the bus then and skip all cars because having to think for yourself and navigate individually is so old fashioned and crude.

Nothing inherently superior about a manual? Spoken like someone who has never driven a stick.

You have a lot more control while driving a stick.

Going downhill on a highway and putting the car in neutral so as to not have the engine act as a brake. Yes a few advanced automatics can do this now (finally after how many decades?). But even the best automatics are still annoyingly dumb.

What if you left your lights on over night and your battery is dead and you have no other car that can jump you? have you ever heard of pushing your car and then popping the clutch to jump the car? Yes I know these things don't ever happen to pampered trendies living in city centers but I have done this many times in my youth while working on cars and trying to get them started again.

I see grown men that have no idea what to do with jumper cables that I hand them and yes they drive automatics. Not saying automatics are bad but to say that a manual is obsolete and serves no purpose shows a real lack of real world experience and most importantly driving enthusiasm. It's just FUN to row the gears.

The manual transmission for sure has it's days numbered as the age of electric cars, automatics and just overall addled lazy Americans hooked on their iphones is here.

Want to know why there's a huge waiting list (multi-year long) for the Porsche GT4? One reason is that Porsche brought back the manual since the prior GT3 came in PDK only. Huge outcry for the manual.

I think Chris Harris sums it up quite nicely... https://youtu.be/L9-Sr8RPty4

 

[LRTDI]

On the Manual v DSG front, the cheapskate in me prefers to save money up front and buy a manual, the long term cheapskate knows that the DSG change every 30,000miles (15 months for me) is $400.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

DSG service is every 40,000 miles. Kits from vendors like us run about $100 and the tools are getting less and less expensive.

 

[BMW Guy]

New clutch and flywheel on my 158,000 mile 2008 328i $1950. Rebuilt transmission from Volvo on my wife's 2009 132,000 mile s80.....$7,500! Even a used trans with labor was 3k. Lucky we got Volvo to do a goodwill replacement.

Manual over auto any day of the week if you plan on keeping the car out of warranty.
I know people who basically scrapped their cars with auto trans because the cost to replace was more than the car was worth.

 

[frugality]

Nothing inherently superior about a manual? Spoken like someone who has never driven a stick.

You have a lot more control while driving a stick.

Ha. My first car in ~1988 was a '77 AMC Matador with an automatic. Since then, all of my cars have been sticks: 1980 Mazda GLC, 1979 Rabbit FI, 1973 Beetle (Baja Bug project car), 1988 Ford Festiva, 1992 Mazda Protege, 2000 Golf TDI, and 2010 Jetta Sportwagen TDI. Just on those last 2 TDIs alone, I put on over 460,000 miles. I know how to drive a stick just fine. I'm just saying it's crude technology that's outdated. It's just cheap and reliable, which is mostly why I've driven them.

I'm thinking my next car will have a DSG, though. I took my first one for a test ride a few weeks ago and was impressed. It's a little 'busy', shifting more often than I would with a manual, but it's always in the right gear, or a quick shift away -- quicker than you can do manually. And I still stall my manual once in a blue moon, because this CR TDI has very low torque off the line compared to my old ALH where you just let your foot off the clutch and away you went. Especially with the air on early in the summer, I get a reminder that I have to be careful to feed more throttle to keep the CR from stalling with the A/C load. Plus 1st gear is a little taller than it should be. With the DSG, you'll never stall it because the software reacts quicker than a brain. And the DSG has a shorter 1st gear, too.

In emergency situations, an automatic is better. Being in the right gear at any time is a nice plus. I learned this in motorcycling, too. I had a regular motorcycle, then went to a 650cc Suzuki Burgman maxi-scooter (like a Honda Silverwing) that had a CVT. It was a big safety plus to be in the right gear at any time, and not shift in corners and such. Now I'm back to a regular motorcycle, but for other reasons....

I think when people say 'you have more control with a manual', it's from a prejudiced viewpoint that 'no machine can do it better than me.' While there are still auto reviews that read, "transmission is slow to downshift," or "transmission has a tendency to hunt for the right gear," there are plenty of automatics that are well tuned and programmed to anticipate your demands.

I drive other people's automatics -- slushbox or CVT -- and aside from occasionally going for the missing shift lever or left pedal as I approach a stop (just old habit), I don't don't feel like my driving experience is suffering from driving an automatic. Kinda nice to just put your foot down and go, actually.

 

[atc98002]

Back on topic...

Audi has the 2016 models on their web page. sadly, this isn't there yet. In fact, all they list is the Premium and Premium Plus 2.0 TSFI. No Prestige or even a V6 any more. Looks like they're just marking time until the 2017 comes out.