Audi A6 with a CJAA Common Rail

nate0031

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I figure it's time I start a build thread. I'm preparing to swap a 2010 CJAA in place of the 2.7tt in a 2000 Audi A6. The car already has a 6-speed 01E, so that's being left alone for now. I'll add pictures and more details later, but I have a couple quick questions.

Is there a difference between the ALH/BEW and BRM/CBEA/CJAA oil pickup tubes? I know the 1.8t tube works for an ALH in a longitudinal application, but would the 1.8t tube also fit the CJAA oil pump? Idparts lists two different parts, one for an ALH/BEW and another for the BRM/CBEA/CJAA but I can't distinguish any differences from the photos alone.

Oil pan. Everything I'm finding suggests that the AWM 1.8t oil pan will fit the CJAA just fine. Can anyone confirm this before I buy one?

Thanks!
 

jimbote

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the difference in the pickup tubes is due to the oil pan difference....I tried to put a BRM pan on an ALH but the pickup interfered with the bottom of the pan....so the pickup tube is slightly different between the common rail, BRM and the earlier VE/PD's ....I think you would probably be ok using the 1.8t longitudinal pickup and pan..
 

nate0031

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Does anyone have a way to look up the part number for a 2010 Audi A4 2.0 TDI (as sold in Europe) accessory bracket? Ideally I need the part numbers for the bracket, idler, and tensioner pulleys. I don't have access to ETKA. Found a few places to download it online, but that seemed a bit sketchy. Maybe I'm just new to it, but I couldn't seem to find it on vagcat. Thanks.
 
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baja_brewer

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Assuming you'll need to source it as well, PM Frans. He's in the Netherlands and is a vendor of used parts on here with good prices.
 

GTiTDi

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Assuming you'll need to source it as well, PM Frans. He's in the Netherlands and is a vendor of used parts on here with good prices.
Let me know if you get in touch w him, been nearly a month and still no reply to me on T4 TDI conversion parts :(
 

nate0031

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Will do. Are those parts you already bought or need to buy?
 

94x

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Let me know if you get in touch w him, been nearly a month and still no reply to me on T4 TDI conversion parts :(
I just bought a rebuilt DUJ Eurovan trans and conversion parts 2 weeks ago, delivered last Tuesday. Use his email address - dutchautoparts.com
 
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nate0031

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GTiTDi - Frans got back to me promptly as well, so I would try him at the email given above if you haven't yet, that's what I used.

Aside from getting the ECU tuned and the new accessory bracket, all the parts have come in. I just got the Bentley manual as well, so I'm going to spend some time studying the wiring diagrams. I'll make a spreadsheet with the pin-out, and be sure to document what I do to the harness to make it work in this car. I can see that being pretty useful on here.

Getting the 2.7t pulled out so I can get the ball rolling.
 
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nate0031

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Pictures to come. I'm hoping to have the CJAA setting down in there after this weekend. Then it's a wiring game, lol.
 
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nate0031

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I was swapping on the new oil pan yesterday, and just about had a heart attack. The AWM pan wasn't the same. The bolt pattern is the same, but the CJAA pan has sections that extend out beyond the bolt holes to clear the windage tray. Here's a Picture:



After removing the windage tray, I see that the block continues underneath, so there is a straight path and no issue with having a surface to seal against. So one question, what to do about the windage tray? I'm guessing simply cutting the tabs off would not be best. Is there another that will fit with this pan? One out of an ALH maybe?
 
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vwztips

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Subscribed. I picked up a 2000 A6 2.7t with 6 speed manual, but the plan is to install a BHW and a euro spec TDI gearbox. I already know the RPM the gasser gearbox will be turning so no need to go back and take out and install the gearbox twice as I would not be happy with the RPMs. Good luck and make good notes.
 

Hasenwerk

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What are you doing for engine management? Are you going to take the entire CAN bus controller / ABS system / instrument pod to make it all work?
 

nate0031

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Thanks. Yea I'd prefer higher gearing, but from my calculations, the gearing is similar to my MK4 ALH. In 6th, I came out with 2360 RPM at 60 instead of 2240 in the ALH. Can you confirm this? I've never driven the car at highway speeds, so all I have is my spreadsheet, lol. I also got 2750 at 70 for the A6 vs 2610 for the ALH. These seem about right? I'd like them much lower, and will probably re-gear in a few years. They seem acceptable for the time being though.

For engine management, I'm just using the stock ECU with a stage 2 tune, immobilizer delete, DPF and lowpressure EGR delete. Much as TDISyncro and Whitbread did. At this stage, no other modules will be used, and the ECU will not have a VSS signal. As such, it'll have no cruise control for the time being. The stock 2.7t ECU will be maintained to run the cluster, and be fed with sensor data from the CJAA (water temp, oil pressure etc). After I get it running at a basic level, I'm going to start tinkering with my Raspberry Pi and a CAN shield. Ideally, I can use this to broadcast VSS data onto the CAN bus, and otherwise have it act as an interface between the newer ECU's CAN bus and the more standard outputs of this car, a decade the engines senior. My hope is to make a straightforward wiring guide so it's easy for most to make a CR work for their application. If I can get my Raspberry Pie to do as I want, it'd be a cheap way to keep the ECU happy regardless of the chassy, and keep things like cruise control working well.
 

vwztips

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I always use 2000 RPM as my reference point, so the stock EDU gearbox in the A6 now will be going 52-53 MPH at 2000. An FTF or DQT will be going 65 MPH. It will work fine, you will just want to go to a higher gear once you get on the HWY.
 

Dirtracr95

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Thanks. Yea I'd prefer higher gearing, but from my calculations, the gearing is similar to my MK4 ALH. In 6th, I came out with 2360 RPM at 60 instead of 2240 in the ALH. Can you confirm this? I've never driven the car at highway speeds, so all I have is my spreadsheet, lol. I also got 2750 at 70 for the A6 vs 2610 for the ALH. These seem about right? I'd like them much lower, and will probably re-gear in a few years. They seem acceptable for the time being though.

For engine management, I'm just using the stock ECU with a stage 2 tune, immobilizer delete, DPF and lowpressure EGR delete. Much as TDISyncro and Whitbread did. At this stage, no other modules will be used, and the ECU will not have a VSS signal. As such, it'll have no cruise control for the time being. The stock 2.7t ECU will be maintained to run the cluster, and be fed with sensor data from the CJAA (water temp, oil pressure etc). After I get it running at a basic level, I'm going to start tinkering with my Raspberry Pi and a CAN shield. Ideally, I can use this to broadcast VSS data onto the CAN bus, and otherwise have it act as an interface between the newer ECU's CAN bus and the more standard outputs of this car, a decade the engines senior. My hope is to make a straightforward wiring guide so it's easy for most to make a CR work for their application. If I can get my Raspberry Pie to do as I want, it'd be a cheap way to keep the ECU happy regardless of the chassy, and keep things like cruise control working well.
Why not go to a larger turbo? The A6 is a boat and the quattro is going to require more power to keep cruising. Keeping the stock gearbox will keep the RPMs up where the Cr140 turbo doesnt do so well. Cr170 turbo I would say is a minimum since it breaths a little better up top.
 

nate0031

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That's definitely the plan in the future. My aim is to have it running within a few weeks, spend whatever time that's required to iron out kinks (cruise control etc), then start saving up for further upgrades once it's running well. Intent being to install an upgraded clutch, taller gears, and turbo at the same time. For the time being, power shouldn't be an issue. The CJAA will be around 180 HP and 330 tq after the tune, and I'm sure the turbo can build plenty enough boost to keep me rolling at 2,800 RPM. Stage 2 dyno plots still have it producing anywhere from 250 to 300 tq at that RPM. Even with the added weight, the A6's power to weight ratio will be better than that of my ALH, and it's actually losing weight with this engine swap. The A6 will weigh 375 more pounds than the Jetta the engine came from. Not to bad I don't think, given the increase in size and addition of AWD. I towed over 1,500 lbs with my ALH, and even it didn't have an issue maintaining 70 on the highway with its stock turbo. Never required a downshift. So I'm confident I'll be happy for now. Very strongly considering compounds for the future though, so I don't give up bottom end with a larger turbo. Especially since a cp4.2 might be an easy bolt on pretty soon.
 
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Scott_DeWitt

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2800 rpm is extremely high cruise RPM for a diesel. 1900-2100 is the highest I would want to see a diesel spin at cruise.
 

nate0031

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I'd prefer it lower. It'll be changed in time. It'll only be that high when I cruise above 70 MPH, and I rarely do more than 65 currently, which puts it at 2550. I'm not concerned though, as I used to run at 75 everyday in my MK4 ALH. With stock gears it was at 2800 at that speed. It never complained, and I doubt VW would've geared it as such if it would've caused damage. It had nearly 300,000 on it when I sold it, mostly high speed highway, and still ran just great. Ergo I highly doubt those RPM's effect longevity in any significant way. At highway speeds, there's only about a 100-150 RPM difference between this and what the ALH ran. I think it's perfectly acceptable for now. I wouldn't consider 2800 extremely high. Not preferable, but not an extreme. My 7.3 diesel runs 2500 at 70, with factory gears and a much larger engine.

To be more precise, and as I'm sure is known, 1st 2nd and 3rd are the same between the 2.7tt and the TDI variant. If I compare the EDU box to my ALH/02J, I get this:



I'll likely skip 4th much of the time, essentially netting my ratios as this:



This will be corrected in time, and I'll enjoy cruising even more. For now, they're similar enough to what I'm used to, what VW thought appropriate for their older diesel, and I have bigger fish to fry.

Any experience with the windage trays?
 

TDIsyncro

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I was swapping on the new oil pan yesterday, and just about had a heart attack. The AWM pan wasn't the same. The bolt pattern is the same, but the CJAA pan has sections that extend out beyond the bolt holes to clear the windage tray. Here's a Picture:



After removing the windage tray, I see that the block continues underneath, so there is a straight path and no issue with having a surface to seal against. So one question, what to do about the windage tray? I'm guessing simply cutting the tabs off would not be best. Is there another that will fit with this pan? One out of an ALH maybe?
The cjaa oil pan is the only one that will work with the windage tray. The cbea does not have a windage tray. I am not sure what options in europe have the Windage tray. The tray is a nice to have but your best bet is to eliminate the tray to use the oil pan u have.
 

nate0031

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Ok. Are there any detrimental effects of not having one? Would I be correct to assume the CBEA does not have one because of the balance shaft module? Thank you TDIsyncro.
 

TDIsyncro

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Ok. Are there any detrimental effects of not having one? Would I be correct to assume the CBEA does not have one because of the balance shaft module? Thank you TDIsyncro.
The cbea does not have one. Yes the bs assembly takes up a lot of that room but I also think it was low on the vag priority list for adding to tdi engines. All previois engines did not have them. It is a nice to have because it captures the oil and helps it settle faster. Perhaps they found the new oil spec for cr engines foams up more. If u have the egr and dpf delete I see no reason to stick with the oil spec. Certainly the pd oils have a higher viscosity and never seemed to have foaming issues. This is all just speculation on my part so please take it for what its worth. We are some of the first at playing with the cr engines and that always means some guess work and risk.:)
 
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