Audi A6 Avant 2.5 V6 TDI Quattro

[diffas]

Yeah. With modified pump it is possible to go a bit further but maybe 220 max.
With good correction factor 250 is possible

 

[sali87]

nozzles from AFB and maybe pump from BDG/BDH or unlimited pump

 

[adamss24]

Bit of an update, fitted my old race 683 nozzles in a set of AFB injectors and no more idle shudder issue, IQ is a solid 3.5Mg/stroke and no more smoke. I still have to replace the needle lift injector plug from round to the square AFB plug but that's rather easy to fix !

 

[doktorec]

nozzles from AFB and maybe pump from BDG/BDH or unlimited pump

Where is that unlimited pump?

 

[adamss24]

Where is that unlimited pump?

Early allroad v6 tdi AKE pumps ( year 2000) have no limitations, you can inject up to 80Mg/stroke from these ! I had race nozzles (fitted to wrong AKE injectors) and gt2060v hybrid and apart from the smoke the car was un-believable ! I never felt that level of acceleration even from twin turbo charged engines !

 

[Rub87]

And what the limit on later ones? Guess somewhere in the 60-65mg range..?

 

[adamss24]

And what the limit on later ones? Guess somewhere in the 60-65mg range..?

Some are 50Mg/stroke and some are 59Mg/stroke ! With the later ones only big nozzles will cheat the pump !
Very, very happy with the way the race 683 behave, i have rock steady idle and low smoke under 2000rpm's and -as a bonus - the engine does not shut down on hard acceleration anymore ! However i am experiencing loss of power when the engine is hot, it seems like turbo lag but it does not happens when running from cold. Also the pump makes a "barking" noise so i suspect dieselbob did not do a great job after all ! No faults logged in the memory though !

 

[doktorec]

Early allroad v6 tdi AKE pumps ( year 2000) have no limitations, you can inject up to 80Mg/stroke from these ! I had race nozzles (fitted to wrong AKE injectors) and gt2060v hybrid and apart from the smoke the car was un-believable ! I never felt that level of acceleration even from twin turbo charged engines !

You had so much fuel because of wrong AKE injectors.The needle lift was the problem.That's why the car smoked and had more fuel.

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

Early allroad v6 tdi AKE pumps ( year 2000) have no limitations.

Do you know the part number off this early model pump?

 

[2stroke]

Early Audi Allroad V6 2.5 TDI "AKE" pumps have no limitations, you can inject up to 80 Mg/stroke from these !

Some are 50 Mg/stroke and some are 59 Mg/stroke !
With the later ones only big nozzles will cheat the pump !

adamss24

Please explain some more about the above and the differences.
Do you have any VAG part #'s ?

 

[2stroke]

I have just swapped the engine in the Audi A6
1. The new engine is a BDH 180 Bhp block with BDG heads, lower compression head gaskets, heavily ported and fitted with new, solid genuine camshafts.
To be honest i am a bit disappointed with the swap,
the new engine does not pull as hard as the old one
the new cams does not have that aggressive profile anymore to keep emissions low !

2. The main reason for the swap was the clutch slip limiting the boost amount i could ask in the tune-had to de-tune it just to make it cope.
On inspection the monkeys that fitted the clutch did not reset the pressure plate self adjusting mechanism hence the clutch not grabbing properly !
The old clutch done a couple of thousands miles if that so there's plenty life left in it.
First impressions with the Sachs SRE clutch is very, very light pedal, i was quite impressed with the bite, it's a little more grabby on take off-needs slight more revs for a smooth engagement but quite ok for now !
I have done a few logs so not a hint of clutch slip yet !
Does anyone knows if the Sachs SRE need bedding in ?

1. Can you tell me the differences between the different V6 2.5 TDI engines ?

2. If I understand this right,
the Sachs SRE clutch is not an OE clutch,
It is probably a clutch that will take some more punishment than the OE clutch.
Tell me more about this Sachs SRE clutch compared to the OE clutch.
Price ?

 

[adamss24]

1. Can you tell me the differences between the different V6 2.5 TDI engines ?
2. If I understand this right,
the Sachs SRE clutch is not an OE clutch,
It is probably a clutch that will take some more punishment than the OE clutch.
Tell me more about this Sachs SRE clutch compared to the OE clutch.
Price ?

Early v6 tdi engines (AFB/AKE/AYM/AKN/BFC) used solid cast chilled cams and rocker arms, later engines (BDG/BDH/BAU) used cam rollers and hollow cams. Due to high cam failure the later hollow cams were replaced with solid cams and the early cams were machined from billet. You can use early cams in later cam roller engines, the early cams have more lift than later's.
Sachs SRE is a much stronger clutch, it has organic friction linings and a solid hub- i have retained the DMF as i don't think SMF would have been too nice to drive !

 

[adamss24]

Hollow cams and the damage they cause when let go:





The clutch i used is a mixture of parts. I bought a Sachs SRE clutch for a v6 tdi and a Loba Stage 2 rs4 clutch. I used the SRE pressure plate and the sprung hub clutch disc from the rs4 clutch. Even with the dual mass flywheel the clutch is still a bit too grabby, can live with it though !

I don't have part numbers for the vp44 pump but with 1st occasion i will make a note of the pump fitted to my year 2000 allroad and report back with numbers !

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

IT looks like the SRE clutch takes a different flywheel?

 

[diffas]

IMHO SRE (assembly+clutch disc) works much better with stock DMF than stock clutch disc with springs.

 

[adamss24]

IMHO SRE (assembly+clutch disc) works much better with stock DMF than stock clutch disc with springs.

I did try the solid organic disc that cam in the SRE clutch and i did not like it much hence switching to the sprung hub clutch disc. The rs4 is a self adjusting clutch kit, sold by Loba but it's made by Sachs/LUK. Only issue is the rs4 pressure plate does not fit the dowels on the v6 tdi flywheel but if you have a good engineering shop that can machine and fit new dowels then you can use the rs4 PP.

 

[adamss24]

IT looks like the SRE clutch takes a different flywheel?

Scott, i used a stock LUK dual mass flywheel, i looked everywhere for a Sachs DMF but could not get one in uk ! The old flywheel did not look too bad for wear but LUK flywheel have more play in them from new than any Sachs DMF i ever removed even high mileage parts !
The SRE kit is used in many cars- mainly 2.0Tdi quattro, 4.2 quattro and some vans, SRE just use upgraded friction linings and stiffer springs. Very nice kit out of the box and quality is very high indeed. What puzzles me is how strong is the stock self adjusting LUK clutch, rs4 boys are using standard, genuine clutches at 500bhp/650Nm torque without issues !

 

[2stroke]

Early V6 2.5 TDI engines (AFB/AKE/AYM/AKN/BFC) used solid cast chilled cams and rocker arms,
later engines (BDG/BDH/BAU) used cam rollers and hollow cams.
Due to high cam failure the later hollow cams were replaced with solid cams and the early cams were machined from billet.
You can use early cams in later cam roller engines,
the early cams have more lift than later's.

Is it possible to retrofit the new type of cam rollers in AFB/AKE/AYM/AKN heads ?

Where can I buy a complete kit in good quality at the right price ?


Is this the right cams to use ?

1. http://www.ruville.de/fileadmin/use...Technische_Info-Flyer_Motor/GB/ti_1001_gb.pdf

2. http://www.faiauto.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/LEAF-8672-C244-C245-C246-C427-New-to-Range.pdf




Is this any good ?
* http://www.excelengineservices.com/camshaft-kit---audi--vw--volkswagen-25-tdi-v6-106-p.asp
* http://autosmotorcraft.eu/listings/2.5_TDI_NEW/KIT/camshaftkit25tdiv6newtype2.html

 

[adamss24]

Nope, the newer type cams(BAU/BDH/BDG) cannot be fitted to AFB/AKE but you can fit the whole heads onto AKE block.
That Ruville cam kit looks decent quality however i used Kolbenshmidt cams from Automotorsport in Germany ! Very good quality and genuine INA lifters/rockers... Here's a link:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COMPLETE-...arts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4abd3f27d2

 

[mojogoes]

Some are 50Mg/stroke and some are 59Mg/stroke ! With the later ones only big nozzles will cheat the pump !
Very, very happy with the way the race 683 behave, i have rock steady idle and low smoke under 2000rpm's and -as a bonus - the engine does not shut down on hard acceleration anymore ! However i am experiencing loss of power when the engine is hot, it seems like turbo lag but it does not happens when running from cold. Also the pump makes a "barking" noise so i suspect dieselbob did not do a great job after all ! No faults logged in the memory though !

Have you resolved this heat / loss of power problem as yet..............if so what was it caused by.

 

[adamss24]

Have you resolved this heat / loss of power problem as yet..............if so what was it caused by.

I have just had the car on a rolling road at AMD in Thurrock, it made 303 Bhp and 530 Nm of torque... The issue was the map i suppose, had a map tweaked by some clever chap in Germany- the car is a hoot to drive- almost as fast as my 370 Bhp NA b6 s4 !

 

[mojogoes]

But a bit slower than the 335d 355hp sat on my drive

 

[adamss24]

But a bit slower than the 335d 355hp sat on my drive

Yeah but at least i can put the power on the road without fancy traction aids in any weather ! Thing is that i can get much more with a better turbo, i have a hybrid gt20 with machined internals from a gtb2260 with a 66mm compressor, whilst the turbo can do a bit more boost- i don't want to push the old girl too much- i have issues with the flywheel rumbling under the torque in 5th and 6th gear !
I also run the old Bosio Race 683 nozzles which are a bit hard to get them to spray nicely without causing much smoke !
All in all it's a very nice drive that still returns +40 Mpg, seats 5 in comfort, it's roomy, can be driven all year round and it cost me 5k including the mods ! Try and get a 535d for that money...

 

[mojogoes]

The 51 reg 330d I had had 400hp and went ((((((kaboom)))))granted it didn't have 4wd and the audi 2.5l Quattro sport b4 that did was untouched.........and I believe the missis old x5 3.0d uses the 22/60 turbo.

The 249whp / 279hp 1z engine mk3 golf with a long list of mods I sold to RyanP and his brother for peanuts 4/5 years ago.................If trying to mod a car you will only get so far although it will all depend with which car / motor you started out with power wise in the first place................300hp from a 2.5l is one thing 279hp from a 4 banger is another and it ain't going to be cheap even if your in the business.

But also remember there are lots more choices and parts available now that have all been beta tested and proven to work.............so what did I want after all this modding and a friend of mine = A turn key monster that can best most so called sports cars and tuned diesels alike and not have any or minimal issues as there are still a few mods to be had even so.

24 have you changed your crank pistons rods pump gearbox axles etc.

 

[adamss24]

The 51 reg 330d I had had 400hp and went ((((((kaboom)))))granted it didn't have 4wd and the audi 2.5l Quattro sport b4 that did was untouched.........and I believe the missis old x5 3.0d uses the 22/60 turbo.
The 249whp / 279hp 1z engine mk3 golf with a long list of mods I sold to RayanP and his brother for peanuts 4/5 years ago.................If trying to mod a car you will only get so far although it will all depend with which car / motor you started out with power wise in the first place................300hp from a 2.5l is one thing 279hp from a 4 banger is another and it ain't going to be cheap even if your in the business.
But also remember there are lots more choices and parts available now that have all been beta tested and proven to work.............so what did I want after all this modding and a friend of mine = A turn key monster that can best most so called sports cars and tuned diesels alike and not have any or minimal issues as there are still a few mods to be had even so.
24 have you changed your crank pistons rods pump gearbox axles etc.

I know exactly what you're on about, however i like to go against the grain and tuning the v6 tdi it's just that ! Since i had this v6 it never broke down on me, it grips and grips and grips + everything else is original bar the clutch, suspension and brakes !
To double the stock power output is rather easy with just a set of nozzles, turbo and a remap ! I can tell you they don't build cars like they used to... I was thinking to look for a 4.2tdi v8 next however driving the a8 they came into it's boring !

 

[mojogoes]

I know exactly what you're on about, however i like to go against the grain and tuning the v6 tdi it's just that ! Since i had this v6 it never broke down on me, it grips and grips and grips + everything else is original bar the clutch, suspension and brakes !
To double the stock power output is rather easy with just a set of nozzles, turbo and a remap ! I can tell you they don't build cars like they used to... I was thinking to look for a 4.2tdi v8 next however driving the a8 they came into it's boring !

Yep definitely tuning diesels is going against the grain in general and good to see someone tackling the v6tdi motor ..............I'd love to see someone put that lump or v8tdi and gearbox in a mid/rear engined mk2 golf or rallye or 4motion as that would be fun/rad

 

[doktorec]

With 400bhp this 2.5tdi is very nice to drive
And here is the pump limit.No more smoke.Now we are building MONSTER VP44 pump for more power.

 

[adamss24]

With 400bhp this 2.5tdi is very nice to drive
And here is the pump limit.No more smoke.Now we are building MONSTER VP44 pump for more power.

I be it's very nice to drive with 400 Bhp, my a6 was a handful with "only" 300 Bhp... Do you have a dyno printout yet ?
Are the head bolts you sell good for BDG/BAU/BDH cam roller heads or just for the early heads ?

 

[IndiaRed]

more clutch clarifications/questions

I did try the solid organic disc that cam in the SRE clutch and i did not like it much hence switching to the sprung hub clutch disc. The rs4 is a self adjusting clutch kit, sold by Loba but it's made by Sachs/LUK. Only issue is the rs4 pressure plate does not fit the dowels on the v6 tdi flywheel but if you have a good engineering shop that can machine and fit new dowels then you can use the rs4 PP.

Scott, i used a stock LUK dual mass flywheel, i looked everywhere for a Sachs DMF but could not get one in uk ! The old flywheel did not look too bad for wear but LUK flywheel have more play in them from new than any Sachs DMF i ever removed even high mileage parts !
The SRE kit is used in many cars- mainly 2.0Tdi quattro, 4.2 quattro and some vans, SRE just use upgraded friction linings and stiffer springs. Very nice kit out of the box and quality is very high indeed. What puzzles me is how strong is the stock self adjusting LUK clutch, rs4 boys are using standard, genuine clutches at 500bhp/650Nm torque without issues !

Adamss24 - I am trying to find the best combination for my 2.5 TDI clutch setup (A4 b5 quattro/6-spd AFB) . Powerwise I am targeting the stage I level. I am a little confused by the earlier posts and photos.

If I understood your earlier posts you used the SRE clutch kit with the stock Luk DMF. To clarify the stock DMF has a flush surface (i.e. no raised perimeter where the dowel pins are located). I have a RS4 clutch kit that requires a raised perimeter flywheel (is that the Sachs DMF you were referring to?) that won’t work (bolt spacing diameter is different too) . From the photos it looks like the SRE is mounted to a raised perimeter flywheel (SMF?) so how would it fit on the stock DMF which is flush? Or do I have something wrong?

In your opinion is the best combination (other than stock) using the stock DMF, the SRE pressure plate and a sprung disk (not the SRE fixed disk)? Would the stock friction disk be adequate in this setup?

Any idea how much extra "capacity" a full stock set up has? Would it handle 15-20% more power/torque?
Thanks
Sven

 

[adamss24]

Go for Sachs SRE clutch, the stage 2 rs4 clutch slips with 550-600 Nm at 3000rpm's. Sachs SRE is fine with over 600Nm...