Audi A6 Avant 2.5 V6 TDI Quattro

[adamss24]

Little clip i made today, could not drive it too fast as there was heavy traffic on London roads !

 

[LongJohn]

Have anyone tried GTB2260VK in 2,5TDI V6 system? How difficult is it to install, does it allow "stock like" installation and does it perform better than a hybrid made from stock turbo?

I know 2260 is working with servo so that has to be dealt with but overally. Intake, piping, oil connections and so on. Is that 3,0TDI Y-pipe plug & play compatible to 2,5TDI exhaust manifolds?

 

[adamss24]

Nope, the GTB2260vk is not plug and play, the exhaust manifold collector is not the same and even if you do get the flexi pipes the end flanges will need cutting and rotating + holes enlarged where they fit the manifolds. Also the gtb will need clocking and the vacuum actuator sits at an odd angle towards the bulkhead. The VNT arm needs shortening and stop screw installed. New adapter flanges are needed to raise the turbo to fit properly with the pipes, the adapter raises the turbo about 40mm. You will also need to fabricate a new downpipe, the oil drain does not fit anymore (easy to overcome though) and the oil feed pipe needs modding as well.

The GTB2260vk flows better on a v6 tdi but you will need larger nozzles, it's still very laggy and the boost maps in the ECU need modifying to get the large turbo to spin.

The best bet is to have a hybrid machined to your own turbo however that will need tuning too and large nozzles.

This is the Turbo Dynamics hybrid which was fitted on the car when i bought it, they only fitted a 60mm compressor wheel and clipped the turbine- it spooled great but it was working close to the surge line. I had it rebuilt due to damage to the turbine and i used a newer technology extended tip turbine wheel.

Had a new map started from scratch- puls very well but the clutch slips in 5th and 6th if going over 3000 rpm's + the engine is much more smokey under 2000rpm's, remember i run Bosio race 683 nozzles which are like 80% larger then standard. Car goes very well but had to revert back to old Celtic Tuning map which i cannot adjust being encripted !

I will have a couple more hybrids done depending on what power goal one wishes, either GT2056, GT2060 with billet wheels and i will try to machine a gt22 turbine and a extended tip 60mm compressor wheel if there's enough meat left on the old housing !

 

[PhilB27]

Hey everyone, been scanning through the turbo thread, i bought a turbo kit from a allard demo car a few months ago which consisted of a allard fmic, boost pipes , milltek downpipe, mapped ecu, and a garrett 2359v turbocharger, iv only just found out what type of turbo it is because the label was removed from the charger. I was told my car ( golf mk41.9 tdi pd130) is running around 230bhp. Nothi g to back this up. The car is laggy low down in the revs but really does go when it kicks in. Its all top end power. Anyone help me with this and know what the potential of this turbo is on a 1.9tdi? Do i need bigger nozzles and anotherr remap? Any information would be great. Cheers
PHIL

 

[PhilB27]

The turbo is of a mercedes cdi i believe which runs 230bhp standard
Phil

 

[diffas]

adamss, it's not wise to put bigger turbine wheel (45mm/50mm) than you find from gt2260v.
Imho best hybrid comes when using 5-blade compressor and turbine from bmw gt2260v. Spools from 1700 and goes over the redline.

I had biggest turbine (51.5/47) available inside stock housings, from gt25v. It was bit laggy with that, with the same compressor wheel. Housing is probably too small for that wheel. Emp decreased about 0.8bar compared to the smaller gt22 turbine on upper revs.

 

[adamss24]

adamss, it's not wise to put bigger turbine wheel (45mm/50mm) than you find from gt2260v.
Imho best hybrid comes when using 5-blade compressor and turbine from bmw gt2260v. Spools from 1700 and goes over the redline.

I had biggest turbine (51.5/47) available inside stock housings, from gt25v. It was bit laggy with that, with the same compressor wheel. Housing is probably too small for that wheel. Emp decreased about 0.8bar compared to the smaller gt22 turbine on upper revs.

I have no problem with spool Diffas, it's clutch slip i am experiencing in 4th,5th and 6th gear if i get over 3000rpm's, also i suffer from fuel starvation- drilled the banjo bolt supply lines a little larger so we'l see if it makes any difference. FJTwelve mentioned that they have replaced the lift pump in the tank- however i wonder if they have fitted the right one ! I am thinking on using a bmw 530 in-line pump or passat 1.9Tdi quattro in tank lift pump if it's able to flow more fuel than i get at the moment, when i step on it the pump has a funny "bark" when it's trying to adjust/fuel the hungry nozzles ! So far the engine holds toghether rather well, the smoke is minimal and the power is there- reverted back to Celtic Tuning map as it's easier on the clutch !

 

[ulinux]

Do you have some logfiles with measuring blocks 3-8-11 that you can post ?

 

[diffas]

If you're installing external lift pump remember to add big enuff. Something like 300+l/h @ 1bar should be good.

 

[adamss24]

If you're installing external lift pump remember to add big enuff. Something like 300+l/h @ 1bar should be good.

Thanks, will look for something that will deliver enough fuel to keep the injectors happy ! So far i have reverted to old Celtic Tuning map as it's easy to live with it + it's not too smokey under 2000 rpm's ! I need to take it to a rolling road soon to see what power the engine has at the moment !

 

[diffas]

Are you still running bosio races?

 

[adamss24]

Yep, still running these, i am thinking to get some nozzles from Doktorek but i am afraid they might be of dubious quality...Some recommended Firad tips and i know you're running cummins nozzles. The turbo above is meant to go on my allroad v6 tdi, it's been in the bodyshop for the last 6-7 months for a full respray/colour codding... That has Bosio pp683 nozzles fitted to AFB injectors and i just had a map done for them- will report back when i get it back in a day or 2...not a hint of smoke on them and nice progressive power although has less torque low down- still on original tune !

The allroad is my tow horse so i need it reliable, i bought another one (newer- 2004 model) whilst this was in the bodyshop as i buy cars as spares or repairs ! The newer one is thirsty-its auto BAU 180Bhp- and not as powerful.

 

[adamss24]

For the a6 i still have my real gtb2260vk turbo which i built adapters to fit but just need to take it to exhaust fabricator to get the downpipe made to fit the exhaust...

 

[doktorec]

Yep, still running these, i am thinking to get some nozzles from Doktorek but i am afraid they might be of dubious quality...Some recommended Firad tips and i know you're running cummins nozzles. The turbo above is meant to go on my allroad v6 tdi, it's been in the bodyshop for the last 6-7 months for a full respray/colour codding... That has Bosio pp683 nozzles fitted to AFB injectors and i just had a map done for them- will report back when i get it back in a day or 2...not a hint of smoke on them and nice progressive power although has less torque low down- still on original tune !

The allroad is my tow horse so i need it reliable, i bought another one (newer- 2004 model) whilst this was in the bodyshop as i buy cars as spares or repairs ! The newer one is thirsty-its auto BAU 180Bhp- and not as powerful.

For the quality you can ask http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=20752 .He has one set.I don't know if he has putted them.

 

[adamss24]

For the quality you can ask http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=20752 .He has one set.I don't know if he has putted them.

Don't be offended mate, it's just that i am old enough to know that branded products are most of the time better than un-branded products. Injector nozzles are delicate and i would not get a gamble with cheaper nozzles unless i know they've been tried and tested before.
Price of nozzles + sourcing new 2nd hand injectors + pop testing will result in few hundred pounds down the drain if the tips are not satisfactory quality ! How much is a set of your nozzles, the ones that flow a little more ? Cheers !
Chris.

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

I've got a set of the nozzles they will be installed soon and go into my A6.

 

[ulinux]

For the quality you can ask http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=20752 .He has one set.I don't know if he has putted them.

@doktorec: Do you have some close up images to see the pattern of the hole positions? Also I would like to know how much they flow (cc/min).

 

[doktorec]

I have this video http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/dfouxzjhwiyzegwenktwhr.mp4/ and the autocad pictures.The nozzle holes are on different hight of the SAC
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/22/nozzle8x180sachole.jpg/

but they are positioned to run on the same angle.The goal is to have 8 holes and not to have interference between the sprays from the holes.I don't know how to explain it because my english is weak.See this video of 7 hole bosio nozzle.See the difference in the spray from the left and that on the right
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuHUQNv11wc .Soon I'll show you video of those +66 nozzles pop up testing.

 

[doktorec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uPK_BHTNHI

Every nozzle is pop up tested to ensure the spray pattern is perfect.

 

[doktorec]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBAC-syRE00
This is one of the test cars.We are maping it now so it's not on 100%.

 

[LongJohn]

Has anyone bored V6 TDI to oversize?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gen_Group_diesel_engines#Six-cylinder_diesels

Stock 78.3 by 86.4mm. Is there a compatible longer stroke crank available and do V6s use normal VAG 88mm bore spacing or something else?

And even further would bigger bore allow modifying cylinderheads and for example use bigger valves?

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

Has anyone bored V6 TDI to oversize?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...gen_Group_diesel_engines#Six-cylinder_diesels

Stock 78.3 by 86.4mm. Is there a compatible longer stroke crank available and do V6s use normal VAG 88mm bore spacing or something else?

And even further would bigger bore allow modifying cylinder heads and for example use bigger valves?

I'm working on boring a 2.5 to 2.7 using 4.0 liter pistons. Initial problem is the head gasket as the bore is slightly smaller than the 4.0 piston diameter.

The 2.7 and 3.0 chain tdi engine use a different bore spacing than the 2.5 so you cannot use those headgaskets.

You can also use a 3.0 liter gas crankshaft with modifications at 92.8mm stroke, which with a 4.0 liter tdi piston will yield 2.9 liters. I don't know if you can use 83mm pistons from 3.0 tdi.. But you will get 3.0 liters.

 

[LongJohn]

81mm and 83mm pistons are rather common in several VAG diesels. 3,0i +92mm crank indeed should be suitable for stroker engine.

I guess disadvantages over this is price, possible problems to find suitable headgasket but what about advantages, what to expect from 3,0 liter 2,5TDI?

 

[Rub87]

Why all that efort for suchs a piece of **** engine.. Better get a 3 liter and an immo delete, you wont regret

 

[diffas]

Engine ain't **** with roller heads (same structure as in 3.0tdi) - pump is ****.
81mm bore is absolute max. Wall is getting too thin. You can use cr 2.0tdi pistons for that...

LongJohn, you're always asking year after year...you never do anything.

 

[doktorec]

Engine ain't **** with roller heads (same structure as in 3.0tdi) - pump is ****.
81mm bore is absolute max. Wall is getting too thin. You can use cr 2.0tdi pistons for that...

LongJohn, you're always asking year after year...you never do anything.

Pump is **** before you get bigger nozzles.Then it's perfect because she can provide 1820bar.

 

[Scott_DeWitt]

Better get a 3 liter and an immo delete, you wont regret

3.0/2.7 have their own set of issue. Cam chains are craptastic and the later engines have 100 pounds over the 2.5 and are a lot larger in size.

We will see however.

 

[adamss24]

I have yet to see a 2.5 v6 tdi with damaged engine unless it was hydrolocked, or the cambelt snapped ! In my opinion it's twice as well put together compared with the CR units and not that crippled with mechanical issues as monkey mechanics claim ! As diffas said, cam roller heads on a AKE/BAU/BDG block with early injector pump and big turbo and you have a nice recipe for power and 600+Nm of torque ! As a daily driver works perfectly and you only need to upgrade the clutch, the 01E gearboxes fitted on these are tough like old boots !
Lack of aftermarket mods and *****e Longlife Servicing is what gave them a bad name...and the true reason of cam issues ! I do still 450 miles on a tank in my 1800Kg quattro on a mixture of urban/rural drive and it gets thrashed within an inch of it's life, guess what ? Keeps coming back asks for more !

 

[LongJohn]

Ok. Hybrid turbo and Doktorec 8x0.19 nozzles coming up. Installed some time august...

 

[sali87]

i drive now +75% Nozzles and gtb2260vk(1,95bar) in my AKE
result is 287hp and 580Nm