Audi A6 Avant 2.5 V6 TDI Quattro

[fjtwelve]

Asked if he wanted your business - here's his response:

"Sounds like a good opportunity. We would be happy to produce some of the downpipes. Please feel free to pass on our details.
Very best regards,
Zhev

Zhev Liberson, Managing Director

Stainless Fabs Ltd
19A Alvington Street
Plymouth
PL4 0QL

Tel 01752 266 566
Mob 07968 775 853

 

[Fez]

Sorry Fez no! but i'm sure that there's plenty of people on this forum that do , a 150mph what were you in?

I was in my a6.
Sorry for no replies, I haven't been getting any emails notifying me of posts on this thread!
Just got a straight through pipe no cats no back box no nothing, made a big difference in performance, can hear the turbo whistling which is very nice. Car now sounds like a v8 jet.
I've got a new gtb2260vk which will be installed this Monday and I'm on the hunt for r683's.
I will see if I can get the guy to design a air intake for it.
I will try post a vid of the exhaust.

 

[mojogoes]

I was in my a6.
Sorry for no replies, I haven't been getting any emails notifying me of posts on this thread!
Just got a straight through pipe no cats no back box no nothing, made a big difference in performance, can hear the turbo whistling which is very nice. Car now sounds like a v8 jet.
I've got a new gtb2260vk which will be installed this Monday and I'm on the hunt for r683's.
I will see if I can get the guy to design a air intake for it.
I will try post a vid of the exhaust.

Hi mate how are you doing?..........yeah right gotcha! ha those motors really do sound great don't they when you open up the exhaust tract , wait until you put the larger turbo in , it will have a right good old snarl on her then = the older Audi RS2's come to mind

 

[fjtwelve]

3" pipe on, sure doesn't sound like a diesel anymore. First impressions - instant improvement at the bottom end, idle shudder worse, revs quicker, fuel economy up. will post photosa nd more info when i've had a chance to drive a few miles. Need to get another remap. I do have silencers, my wife said lancaster bomber not v8 jet.

R683s from Jeremy Lear contact details above somewhere

 

[Mikkijayne]

I started the 1.9 with no exhaust at all today It sounds like a tractor but is remarkably quiet considering. Shame I'm so far from Plymouth, otherwise your guy could make a downpipe for me too. I guess I'll have to make mine myself

 

[fjtwelve]

You're in Devon, Plymouth is in, er, Devon. How far away are you? It isn't exactly around the corner from me either but choices in Cornwall are kind of limited.

 

[Mikkijayne]

Ah dammit! I was sure that said Falmouth cos thats near you

I'd struggle to get it to Plymouth regardless, since it currently has no MoT and no tax, and its not going to get either until it has a downpipe!

 

[fjtwelve]

Exhaust photos (and others) here http://s627.photobucket.com/albums/tt360/fjtwelve/

 

[Mikkijayne]

That looks pretty good Didn't realise you'd got a full system. How does it sound with just the two boxes?

Gotta love those cam followers

 

[fjtwelve]

I'll try and get a video and sound posted. Booked back into Celtic on Monday to see what they can do with it now

 

[Pieman]

Its taken me some 3-4 hours to read through this great thread!!

Just out of curisoity, will an auto gearbox take these power and torque levels ok?? The misses has seen a A4 180 auto quattro avant that she wants.

And does anybody know how many intercoolers these have, is it 1 or 2 and can you get an aftermarket upgrade??

 

[im570rm]

if you limit the torque should be ok!Car haves 2 intercoolers .

 

[Pieman]

if you limit the torque should be ok!Car haves 2 intercoolers .

Nice.

What sort of torque limits are we talking, 400lbft??

What power are the intercoolers able to run at nicely, are they any good??

 

[im570rm]

I don't know the limit but i would guess ~ 500nm.Stock intercoolers should be good for ~ 260 bhp or so.

 

[fjtwelve]

Where to start? I went
Tuning box/chip
Remap
Bigger nozzles and a remap
Even bigger nozzles, hybrid or bigger turbo and another remap
A 3" exhaust and another remap

I'm running 266hp (198kW) and 455ft lb (630Nm) on standard clutch and intercooler. Car is in for probably the last remap after getting the 3" exhaust, not planning an intercooler upgrade at the moment (famous last words)

 

[Mikkijayne]

Just out of curisoity, wll an auto gearbox take these power and torque levels ok??

In a word, no. The autoboxes in this generation of Audis are made of putty and struggle to cope with the stock torque, let alone modified. This isn't just me being biased either - they really are terribly unreliable. Have a look in the A4 and A6 forums on http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk. At one stage probably half the threads were on gearbox problems The tiptronic is worst, but the multitronic fares little better.

There are two main problems with them, which may be solvable with enough effort:

#1 Audi say the boxes are sealed for life and never change the fluid, so it ends up getting burnt and causing the clutches to slip.

#2 The programming on the TCU is set to shift really smoothly, slipping the clutches as it goes and burning the friction surfaces. See point 1...

If you must get an auto then look for a low mileage one (60K tops) and have a dealer check the fluid. If it is still like maple syrup then its fine. If its dark or smells burnt the box is toast, and you should run away. If you really like a particular car then its worth spending an hour's labour with Audi to save yourself a £3-4K bill later!

If you do find a good one get on Google and look for a 'tip chip'. Some US-based tuners can supply this and it speeds up the shifts which in turns reduces the burning of the friction surfaces and the oil. Oh, and put fresh oil and filter in it (Audi will tell you this is unnecessary - ignore them and go to a specialist if so). Oh, and also look on Fourtitude.com for a mod to increase the solenoid pressure too.

None of this will stop it dying eventually, but it might prolong its life past 200K if you're lucky. My A8 made it to 188K before it died, but I was lucky.

Or get a manual

Footnote: BMW use the same 'boxes as Audi, but they don't die. Why? Harder (ie sporty) shifts and scheduled fluid changes...

 

[Pieman]

Where to start? I went
Tuning box/chip
Remap
Bigger nozzles and a remap
Even bigger nozzles, hybrid or bigger turbo and another remap
A 3" exhaust and another remap

I'm running 266hp (198kW) and 455ft lb (630Nm) on standard clutch and intercooler. Car is in for probably the last remap after getting the 3" exhaust, not planning an intercooler upgrade at the moment (famous last words)

Its been a very interesting read up on your car!! I was thinking that the standard coolers must be ok if you hadn't upgraded.

I was looking at bigger S4 intercoolers as an upgrade. I was just wondering if the would help at all??

In a word, no. The autoboxes in this generation of Audis are made of putty and struggle to cope with the stock torque, let alone modified. This isn't just me being biased either - they really are terribly unreliable. Have a look in the A4 and A6 forums on http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk. At one stage probably half the threads were on gearbox problems The tiptronic is worst, but the multitronic fares little better.

There are two main problems with them, which may be solvable with enough effort:

#1 Audi say the boxes are sealed for life and never change the fluid, so it ends up getting burnt and causing the clutches to slip.

#2 The programming on the TCU is set to shift really smoothly, slipping the clutches as it goes and burning the friction surfaces. See point 1...

If you must get an auto then look for a low mileage one (60K tops) and have a dealer check the fluid. If it is still like maple syrup then its fine. If its dark or smells burnt the box is toast, and you should run away. If you really like a particular car then its worth spending an hour's labour with Audi to save yourself a £3-4K bill later!

If you do find a good one get on Google and look for a 'tip chip'. Some US-based tuners can supply this and it speeds up the shifts which in turns reduces the burning of the friction surfaces and the oil. Oh, and put fresh oil and filter in it (Audi will tell you this is unnecessary - ignore them and go to a specialist if so). Oh, and also look on Fourtitude.com for a mod to increase the solenoid pressure too.

None of this will stop it dying eventually, but it might prolong its life past 200K if you're lucky. My A8 made it to 188K before it died, but I was lucky.

Or get a manual

Footnote: BMW use the same 'boxes as Audi, but they don't die. Why? Harder (ie sporty) shifts and scheduled fluid changes...

Thats some great info there, Thanks.

The car we have just got is a 180 quattro and has 105k on it, so if I can anyway help the box live a little longer and help it take a little extra power would be great.

I have seen that most Tuners limit the torque to about 350lbft and I now know why!!

 

[diffas]

So what the difference between the Tiptronic and multitronic??

I have seen that most Tuners limit the torque to about 350lbft and I now know why!!

Tiptronic is the way to go if you want a automatic gearbox. Multitronic sucks big time and it brokes even with stock car. Multitronic is variator based gearbox so it can't hold loads of torque. In other hand tiptronics are possible to hold more torque and even more with reinforcing it.

 

[im570rm]

also for tiptronic you can find lots of mods =)

 

[Pieman]

also for tiptronic you can find lots of mods =)

Sorry for Hijacking this thread.


I had a good search last night for about 2-3 hours and found that people have done mods and it was a lot better after but couldn't find much on the tuners doing this. "Vast" seem to be the company to use for "Chipping" but cant find anything about it. Also it looks that its the gearbox on a 2.7 that people "chip" and not the 2.5, Why?? Do you have any links or know of anybody in Europe than can help???

Seems that our American friends are the only people doing this.

 

[Mikkijayne]

I think its probably so rare in Europe because we mostly have manual gearboxes, whereas the US didn't even have a manual option on a lot of models, so they have to find a solution to the autos dying all the time.

You're seeing references to the 2.7T because thats the most common A6 in the US, and they never got the 2.5 at all. Its the same gearbox though, so the software and mods will work the same too The 2.7T is very easy to get more power from, and breaks the gearbox almost straight away afterwards

If you've already bought a car then the first thing you need to do is get Audi to take a sample of the oil and see whats going on. That will let you know how urgent (or not) it is to do something about it. Regardless of the state of it, I would change it and the filter (in the gearbox sump) immediately as a safety measure. Its not cheap, but you must use genuine Audi oil only, because obviously it is special. There are aftermarket oils that claim to be compatible but Audi are notorious for putting a spec on the bottle thats not even close to whats inside. The 6-speed manual is exactly the same - says EP80 on the spec sheet, but is more like rape seed oil in the bottle!

Did you find the line pressure mod on Vortex? Thats easy to do while the sump is off to change the filter and gives the clutches some more holding power.

As im570rm said, there are lots of mods for the tip 'boxes. I'd make sure thats in the best state you can afford before modding the engine

Oh, and just for reference, the 5-speed tiptronic is made by ZF and is called the 5HP19F (or FL for Quattro). You can find a lot more technical info on it searching on that code, along with how it all works and spare part numbers etc. There is a full teardown and rebuild procedure in the A4 Bentley or factory manual too, which is handy if you want to get really in to it.
Next time I get a car with one of these (an S8 probably) I am going to buy a spare 'box and bulletproof it on the bench, then swap it in just before the original goes pop

 

[Pieman]

I think its probably so rare in Europe because we mostly have manual gearboxes, whereas the US didn't even have a manual option on a lot of models, so they have to find a solution to the autos dying all the time.

You're seeing references to the 2.7T because thats the most common A6 in the US, and they never got the 2.5 at all. Its the same gearbox though, so the software and mods will work the same too The 2.7T is very easy to get more power from, and breaks the gearbox almost straight away afterwards

If you've already bought a car then the first thing you need to do is get Audi to take a sample of the oil and see whats going on. That will let you know how urgent (or not) it is to do something about it. Regardless of the state of it, I would change it and the filter (in the gearbox sump) immediately as a safety measure. Its not cheap, but you must use genuine Audi oil only, because obviously it is special. There are aftermarket oils that claim to be compatible but Audi are notorious for putting a spec on the bottle thats not even close to whats inside. The 6-speed manual is exactly the same - says EP80 on the spec sheet, but is more like rape seed oil in the bottle!

Did you find the line pressure mod on Vortex? Thats easy to do while the sump is off to change the filter and gives the clutches some more holding power.

As im570rm said, there are lots of mods for the tip 'boxes. I'd make sure thats in the best state you can afford before modding the engine

Oh, and just for reference, the 5-speed tiptronic is made by ZF and is called the 5HP19F (or FL for Quattro). You can find a lot more technical info on it searching on that code, along with how it all works and spare part numbers etc. There is a full teardown and rebuild procedure in the A4 Bentley or factory manual too, which is handy if you want to get really in to it.
Next time I get a car with one of these (an S8 probably) I am going to buy a spare 'box and bulletproof it on the bench, then swap it in just before the original goes pop

Great reply there Mikkijayne!!

The car is booked in at my local Audi dealer for Monday to have the gearbox serviced and a good check over. They have had to order the filter in but have the fluid on the shelf. They were very helpfull and the price wasn't to bad either.

I coundn't find the pressure mod on Vortex.

However I have found a dealer in the UK that can remap the gearbox. Regal motorsport http://www.regal-shop.co.uk/vw/acatalog/Products_With_Choices.html and they are a GIAC dealer. They can also remap DSG too. But reading what has been said in America the VAST chip is best. I have emailed VAST and I'm now just waiting for a reply.

 

[Mikkijayne]

Huh apparently the line pressure mod originated here! Or course lol!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=584164

That thread was for the 4-speed auto in Golfs n stuff, but someone on Vortex tried it on an Audi tip box as well.

If you search the Vortex Auto Transmission Forum for 'line pressure' it comes back with 4 results which ultimately all link back to the TDIclub one. I can't find the original one on Vortex though.

 

[Pieman]

Huh apparently the line pressure mod originated here! Or course lol!

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=584164

That thread was for the 4-speed auto in Golfs n stuff, but someone on Vortex tried it on an Audi tip box as well.

If you search the Vortex Auto Transmission Forum for 'line pressure' it comes back with 4 results which ultimately all link back to the TDIclub one. I can't find the original one on Vortex though.

Thanks for the link. Looks like loads of reading again tonight!!

I may have the gearbox out now over Xmas and new year while I'm not working to sort the box out so it can take a few more lbft.

 

[fjtwelve]

Hmm. Celtic didn't have a lot of joy. They said that the exhaust is almost too free breathing for the turbo now, a lack of back pressure at low engine speeds is not helping the turbo spool up (apparently VNT need back pressure to help spooling?). I'd welcome some feedback on this. I need to sort the resonance i'm getting at about 2k rpm and if another baffle is needed then i could get it put up at the bottom of the downpipe to help with the backpressure.
The slightest bit of additional fuel at the upper end of the rev range is resulting in smoke. The good thing is that the engine is revving noticeably more smoothly now, and i went back to where i took the video and it comfortably ran up to 125 (was 118) and i didn't go for it 100%. I've only done 50-60 miles so far and haven't got a full feel for everything yet, but it seems if you are driving the car as opposed to dawdling along in traffic it doesn't smoke much atall.
I've just been told that as of Monday i'm working at Heathrow for 8 months (like they told me i'd be here in Dublin for a year, 2.5 years ago). Can't fly there from my neck of the woods so it looks like my 60 miles a week is just about to turn into 600. Be spending about 10hours a week in the car so that should help

 

[Pieman]

What was the standard Audi system I/D??

I would say that your exhaust I/D is to big, maybe 2 1/2" to 2 3/4" would have been enough. I find it hard to see how it would cause to much of a problem but have seen it on petrols doing the same.

Could you add a cat to the system to add a little back pressure??

 

[im570rm]

imo is something wrong with the turbo or is not adjusted properly...ussually backpressure is needed for small turbos like 1749va/vb so it will not OVERBOOST ,not cuz it doesn't make the requested boost down low.
Some logs will help!

 

[Mikkijayne]

Could you add a cat to the system to add a little back pressure??

It still has the pre-cat / particulate filter thingy...

 

[fjtwelve]

It still has the pre-cat / particulate filter thingy...

Nooo that went in the skip with the rest

 

[Mikkijayne]

Oh my mistake. Its still in this picture so I presumed you had left it in place. Did you just make a drop-in pipe to replace that then?