Audi A4R4 450HP CBEA (CR) Build

TDIsyncro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
ok. Updates. I did make some progress this past summer and spring. Been working too much for the last 4 months to make any more progress. Trying to get back on track now.


I will let the smart guys figure out what is different about my A4.


Interior came back together nicely around the cage. The exception is the roof liner. Will have to go custom on that part, it was just not working out.





Working on ride height. Front needs to come down a good inch+. I am building custom coil-overs (and I do mean building not buying), that will set things right for ride height and performance requirements.

 
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TDIsyncro

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
built the long block last spring. here are a few of the steps.

was going to design/build custom piston coolers, opted for customizing the existing ones. Here you can see I am adjusting the angle of it to properly line up with my piston selection.




Piston clearance notches for oil squirts need opening up a fair bit. Had to readjust the weights of all the pistons after this.



Testing for alignment and clearances. A failed piston cooler = catastrophic engine failure.




fresh paint. no fancy colours.





Dry Sump Oil Pan - in progress picture. It is complete now. Will get pictures some day soon.

 

TDIsyncro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
I could use some help on the dry sump system.
I had received this adapter plate from INA (Issam) and it does not fit the block. I am not sure what engine block it is suppose to fit but it is not a modern TDI. I need to get a new one milled and need some input from the community on the design of the new one - ie what ports and pressure regulation to head. I will design the part using Inventor and have it milled locally. I then have control over quality and delivery time.
I have two scavenger pumps feeding to the external tank, and one stage of oil pump feeding the adapter plate (one oil line). The one sent to me has three ports. I am guessing the following:
1. Port A was to feed the head
2. Port B was to feed the main oil gallery
3. Port C is return back to sump.

Port C on my long block is blocked off, so I will not have this port on the adapter. If a return port is needed, it will go back to the external oil tank. The adapter I did get has a built in pressure relief valve. I can't remember where by-passes too and it is not here with me right now. I would assume it is parallel to the oil flow on the head port. I can confirm this tomorrow.

Is there anybody on this forum with some expertise on dry sump systems?
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
most logical would be if you have an external pressure regulator to just feed main gallery and head with oil. oil return from you external pressure regulator then will be back to tank or to scavenge pump inlet.
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
most logical would be if you have an external pressure regulator to just feed main gallery and head with oil. oil return from you external pressure regulator then will be back to tank or to scavenge pump inlet.

OK. That is a good point. However, does the oil feed to the head need to be regulated to a lower pressure than the block? I do not want it (the head) to get flooded. I assume the OEM keeps it as a separate cell in the casting to accomplish this.
 

JFettig

Vendor
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Aug 18, 2010
Location
Blaine, MN
TDI
B5 Passat, 2010 Jetta
The one you got from INA is for an ALH style block(or early PD). On that one, Port C is crank case vent, Port B is the feed FROM the oil pump to the filter housing and port A is what feeds the engine with filtered oil. I'm guessing the layout is the same on the newer block but I don't know for sure.

Your oil pump might have its own check valve and pressure regulator - you'll want to check this or add them if needed.

I see it now, you have the "oil feed to the head" port mislabeled, that feeds the lower end, the small hole right above and to the right feeds the head. Look at the old filter housing, you'll see just a half moon cutout which is a restriction to feeding the top end that you need so it doesn't get flooded.
 

TDIsyncro

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Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
The one you got from INA is for an ALH style block(or early PD). On that one, Port C is crank case vent, Port B is the feed FROM the oil pump to the filter housing and port A is what feeds the engine with filtered oil. I'm guessing the layout is the same on the newer block but I don't know for sure.

Your oil pump might have its own check valve and pressure regulator - you'll want to check this or add them if needed.

I see it now, you have the "oil feed to the head" port mislabeled, that feeds the lower end, the small hole right above and to the right feeds the head. Look at the old filter housing, you'll see just a half moon cutout which is a restriction to feeding the top end that you need so it doesn't get flooded.

Ah! you are right. I have had this project sitting too long and forgot that. :eek: So there is just a physical restriction (an orifice of sorts) controlling the oil volume to the head port?
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
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Audi/TDI x 2
I should of reposted my original sketch. :eek:




Anyway, it sounds like I have the choice of either regulating the flow to each port separately, or regulating it to main gallery, and using a similar milled restriction between the main gallery and the head supply port. Is this you read on it?
 

TDIsyncro

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Location
Saskatoon, SK
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Audi/TDI x 2
It appears that way on the ALH style filter housing.
thanks for the picture. Put things into perspective.

I am going to be running a higher oil pressure than factory (heavier oil and larger clearances). I am thinking I need to use a separate regulator to the head or, use an adjustable screw in the passage to the head port and experiment with it a bit to get reasonable flow rates.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
i think more oil is always better, the only problem could be if the hydraulic lifter gets so much pressure so it pumps up. for the rest I think unless cam bearings are really worn out the head can never get so much oil that the return bores cannot cope with it.
 

v8 coupe

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2008
Location
bloomington, mn
TDI
09 rabbit 2.5L Gas
in a dry sump I wouldn't worry so much about oil filling the head in a wet sump this can cause the pan to run dry, but you don't have the same issues.

I would be interested in that plate as well for my build as the factory filter is right in the way for me.
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
thanks for your thoughts guys. :) It seems like I should take a simple approach to this; design a similar restriction to OEM in the milling and when I run the higher oil pressure it will just bump up the flow to both areas a bit.
 

TDIsyncro

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Location
Saskatoon, SK
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Audi/TDI x 2
I would be interested in that plate as well for my build as the factory filter is right in the way for me.
I will post the design image on the thread and get pricing. You can let me know if you want one at the same time. Should save both of us a little money.

Any other parts we should be doubling up on? I have to come up with some custom HPFP lines. Have you come across any options or sources for this?
 

v8 coupe

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Sep 3, 2008
Location
bloomington, mn
TDI
09 rabbit 2.5L Gas
A line kit to allow a cp4.2 with y piece would for sure be a great product
this can be done, I've discussed with several company's that can do this, only issue is no one has the CP4 16mm nuts so you'd have to source a few stock lines then can cannibalize to get the nuts. I'm shooting for a dual feed rail so each piston fills each end of the rail to hopefully keep it from starving.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
Ok, but that would also require custom lines and extra nuts, and would increase cost.. Do you think there is a problem running a Y piece?
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
TDI
Audi/TDI x 2
I have OEM, CP3 (LBZ) and CP4.2 (3.0TDI). The Cp3 and OEM have same nut sizes, I did not even think to try the CP4.2 to see if it is different. I will check today.
 

TDIsyncro

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Location
Saskatoon, SK
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Audi/TDI x 2
Ok, but that would also require custom lines and extra nuts, and would increase cost.. Do you think there is a problem running a Y piece?
I am going to approach this with one line to the rail. If I use the CP4.2 then a Y piece or something like that is fine to me. The CP3 only has one outlet. If I have rail problems I will go for custom design as required.
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
Location
Saskatoon, SK
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Audi/TDI x 2
Sean,

Here is the filter adapter concept. pretty simple. Mine will have only one hole (supply to the block/head). Yours will have three holes. 1/2"NPT holes for AN fittings.




Back view - small channel will be milled from oil hole into pocket. I don't have a filter bracket here with me to come up with the hole geometry. Let me know what you think. Check your email for a drawing. Print out to scale and place on your filter mount to check for accuracy. I do not have a printer with me today so I cant check.






.
 

TDIsyncro

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Nov 14, 2005
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Audi/TDI x 2
I was doing some digging on CP4.2 pumps.

Bosch Pump CP4.2 FP3 - 0445010622, both the 3.0 TDI and the new ford 6.7 use the same pump number. I have not got flow numbers yet, but guessing it is around the 180 to 200liter/hr, as per previous pumps on the Ford V8's. I will have more info in the New Year.


Anybody wish to chime in with any other information?
 

2micron

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Mar 23, 2012
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Canada
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None
Very good read. wow. lots of good work guys!! :) If the fittings are a problem right now, I will try to come through on these.
Many have been contributing to the CP 4.2 Bosch pump retro project. We are all thrilled you are back into your project Syncro!!!
Please back us up a bit......your rear suspension looks very serious!!!
Those tires look huge!!!
Certainly looks like shortened half shafts, special hub carriers, where in the heck are the springs / struts???
Must be some creative clearancing work!!!
Awesome!!
If you decide to run a CP4.2 pump, the Euro Ford pumps we all have seem to be missing the inlet and return line fittings.
I made up a bunch of fittings, here's a sneek peek!!
.

Basically a copy of the 2Microntech barbs.
Probably put a couple oring grooves on the next batch!!
All the best,
Andrew
 
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