Are 2003 Jetta Station Wagon IPs not affected by Bio?

[Eric 1207]

I read at biofueloasis.com that they have never had a customer with a 2000-2003 Jetta station wagon complain of having their car's original injection pump develop leaking seals due to biodiesel.

Can any one confirm or deny this with personal experience?

Biofueloasis says and I have read that these wagons were made in Germany and so the IP may be built a bit different as a result.

I am trying to decide if I should take up my neighbors offer of biodiesel for much less than the current price of petro diesel.

I'm new to TDIs but my neighbor is not and has run his 2006 Jetta sedan and ~ 10 other friends/neighbor's TDIs without problems on the Biodiesel he makes. He uses a Probio machine in his garage from http://www.springboardbiodiesel.com. He did have to replace the fuel lines & IP seals on his son's 2003 golf though and another neighbor did the same on his 2003 Jetta Sedan.

So do you think I can get away with not having problems on my station wagon's IP seals when/if I go to bio?

I've read a lot and am aware of all the other precautions when starting to use Bio so no need to discuss anything else, just whether this vintage station wagon IP seals are more tolerant of biodiesel.

Thank you

Eric

 

[Ohnoitsthexops]

Vitton seals will fix that, maybe someone else can chime in if the stock lines are bio rated. Have a few extra fuel filters ready to go!

 

[PeterV]

The 06 is a DIFFERENT car from your ALH model. You might consider a 30% bio at first for several thousand miles and if all is OK go to 50% the seals can swell with some Bio. You have a 10 year old car and you did not indicate them to us. It seems that you are not the orig owner so you have little idea of the actual maintenance done over the past 10 years and engine condition ie cam shaft wear Injectors or other modifications.

If this is WVO waste vegi oil be careful.

You should remember your savings will not be much is you have to pay for repairs to expensive parts.

 

[fruitcakesa]

I ran homebrew B100 for 40k miles in my 02 and the IP did indeed need a reseal after a while.
I have heard it said that using BD softens and swells the seals and returning to D2 causes them to them shrink and ultimately fail.
I used the DG reseal kit and it solved the problem

 

[Eric 1207]

Thanks for the replies. Still looking for any testimonials that a 2000-2003 Jetta wagon IP is not affected by biodiesel.

Fruitcakesa appears to have had a problem with his 2001 Jetta wagon IP and had to reseal so maybe thats what I will eventually have to face.

Fruitcakesa Did you DIY on the seals. I'm pretty handy with cars (already re-lubed my starter bendix) but have heard that it is difficult to rebuild/seal Ips and re-calibrate, bleed etc..... I have never worked on diesels, injectors, IPs nor turbos and not sure I want to. This is my first diesel but my neighbors love their TDIs and so far I do to.

Anyone else care to chime in. I'd really like to hear how other wagons of this vintage handled bio.

PeterV: Yes I know about the change in 2004. The original owner had pretty good records. There was no evidence of IP replacement but the injectors have been replaced 3 or 4 times per receipts I have. It has 119K non bio miles. A "Trusted TDIclub mechanic" inspected and drove it for me and said it was a "good car". Don't know about the cam wear. This is not WVO it is bio diesel from a commercially manufactured machine that does everything but measure in the chemicals. My neighbor is a very careful and cognizant person who has a pretty nice and clean set up and I see him and our neighbors filling up with bio at his garage frequently.

I know the savings will not be huge but if I can get away with not having to reseal the IP I think I can handle the rest. Or maybe the reseal is not that big a deal

Thank you and please anyone else chime in about their ALH wagon & bio.

Eric

 

[Tap2112]

I am not aware of any IP that are impervious to biodiesel from the factory. You can modify them with viton seals to take care of the problem but just because no other wagons had the problem does not mean they are not problematic. Remember that the diesel wagons are quite rare so not many are around. And even fewer run them with biodiesel so the actual number of user are quite low.

I run 100% bio in my 3 TDIs and my F250. I have not yet had any fuel related issues (injection pump or otherwise) and I have more than 60K on B100 in one of them.

Switching back and forth between bio and D2 is what appears to cause the most problems. Biodiesel does swell the seals/gaskets and if you stay with bio they stay swelled and there are no leaks or issues, but when you switch back and forth they will likely fail from expanding and contracting enough times. While the engine doesn't care how often you switch, some of the supporting hoses and seals do.

Also, the return fuel lines are not biodiesel resistant and you will want to buy a Viton kit for this ($13.95 from Greaseworks.org). Installation is easy enough to do yourself.

Best of luck.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I agree with the above posts that running bio is OK (assuming it's good quality), but switching between fuels can cause problems. Biodiesel is high in aromatics which cause seals to swell. If you switch back to dino diesel the aromatics migrate back into the fuel causing the seals to shrink and, perhaps, leak.

I would love to run bio more often, but fuel availability and winter here causes problems. And I don't like to switch between fuels for reasons mentioned above. Having said that, I have run B20 on and off in my wagon for years, never had a problem. German built cars use the same pumps from Bosch as Mexican or Brazilian VWs.

 

[Lug_Nut]

I've had fuel leaks from seals in my cars. I run high percentages of biodiesel.
I also buy used cars of unknown history and high mileage and some have been leaking from before my term of ownership.

Her Golf is presently leaking. I'll have to address that this spring. It also runs a high percentage of bio (though not as high as mine in the winter), and it is a former grease fueled car.
My Jetta is not leaking. It is presently at B50. When temperatures are sustained above freezing it'll be right back to B99.

None of the rubber or synthetics are immune. The factory fuel system 'rubbers' are resistant to the effects of fuel, but even they will eventually suffer the loss of resilience and will degrade, if not by biodiesel, then by petroleum diesel, or by age if you never drive it at all.


HOWEVER......
I'd be less cocky if I were using home-brewed bio from a neighbor's hobby. Biodiesel is easy to make, but bad biodiesel is as easy to make as good biodiesel.
Mine is from a commercial supplier, every batch is tested to ASTM standards, and test results are available for me to audit.

 

[philngrayce]

You should expect that your seals may leak, if you go back to D2. But it is not the difficult job you are picturing - nothing like rebuliding an IP. I have not done it myself (I was a WVO guy) but friends have done it and said it is a simple job. If they start leaking, it won't leave you stranded on the side of the road and is not a reason to avoid biodiesel.

I am curious about them having replaced the injectors "3 or 4 times" in 119K miles. That is very unusual.

 

[Eric 1207]

thank you for the replies.

philingrayce: So replacing the seals in an IP with viton is not that hard (as opposed to rebuilding it)? Maybe I'll take that on if I need to, but I'd hate to screw up and create expensive problems that need a pro to fix. I suppose there is a thread in here describing a IP reseal. I have no special tools or knowledge, (yet) on how to bleed or calibrate this fuel system if that is also required.

I thought it strange that the injectors were replaced so often, too. Once or twice by a dealer and a few times by an independent diesel mechanic but not a "trusted TDIclub mechanic" from The List. At least I can cross that off my to-do schedule for now.

Thanks again for the replies.

 

[philngrayce]

I have never done it, but I think it is a matter of removing some allen bolts pulling out the old seal and puttin in a new. No calibration necessary, and probably no bleeding. And if bleeding is required, it is very easy on these cars - they are extremely tolerant of air, compared to an old fashioned diesel. I'm sure there is a discussion of it somewhere on here.

The only thing I can imagine is they put in bad injectors, or damaged them in the installation. Or lied about putting them in.

 

[blazen71]

I'm pretty handy with cars (already re-lubed my starter bendix) but have heard that it is difficult to rebuild/seal Ips and re-calibrate, bleed etc..... I have never worked on diesels, injectors, IPs nor turbos and not sure I want to. This is my first diesel but my neighbors love their TDIs and so far I do to.
Anyone else care to chime in. I'd really like to hear how other wagons of this vintage handled bio.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=287336

Check the link above for a How-To on changing IP seals. I have been running B20-B50 for a year now and plan on going B100 this Spring. I haven't changed the seals yet, but plan on it this year do to limited availability of B100 while I travel. Going back and forth between B100 and DinoDiesel will cause the IP to leak! So far my IP is fine and doesn't leak!

 

[sqdude]

Hey there. While not a wagon, my car is an A4 so the same vintage as what youre talking about. I started running bio in my 2000 when i got it in 2006. I am the second owner and the car only had 30k miles when i got it. I ran it on b99 in summer and b20 in winter, with a few b50 tanks spring and fall.

I had leaking at the head seal in the fall of 2010 after switching back to b20. I topped off with b99 getting me back to about b40. The seal re swelled and the leak stopped, giving me enough time to get up to Portland and see Oldpoopie who replaced 3 seals. (for what its worth, the inside of my IP was sparkly clean, no rust or any weird wear). Cost was a few hundred $. Full replacement or factory rebuild is $1,300 to $2,000 if you go to a shop or dealer.

Since youre in Seattle that puts you near TDI gurus and easy drive to portland if need be.

As said, its the switch back to dino is the problem especially if done quickly (like going from b99 to b0).

I used to work for a biodiesel company and i saw a lot of A4 customers with leaking IP's. Sadly, virtually all of them went to the dealer or repair shops and paid way too much.

Also, the fact that your neighbor is selling his fuel to other people is a good sign that he knows what hes doing. You might ask him though what he would do if he had a bad batch and it caused damage. Commercial retailers carry liability insurance for such events. It may just be a "use at your own risk".

Despite all the potential downsides and the required use of your brain, biodiesel is awesome! You get the same happy feeling as eating fresh local food prepared by a loved one.

 

[Eric 1207]

Thank you again for all the replies. I think the subject has been well covered so unless someone wants to add to this I am satisfied an will probably start using this stuff. As someone said it is a local product that is "recycled" and reduces demands on resources, all good in my book

 

[AndyBees]

I just skimmed thru this thread....seems your direct question never got addressed head-on.

Unless I am totally mistaken, the IP in the '03 JSW is no different than the IP in an '03 Golf or '01 ...... 99.5 thru '03 all have ALH engines with the same IP.

 

[guapo42]

I have an A4 2003 Wagon with 155k miles on it I've running B100 for 80k of those. I had to replace the hoses between the injectors (cheap) at about 100k (25k on BD) and then I had to have the IP rebuilt ($700) about 20k miles after that.

Other than that I've had no BD related problems with the car in the 4 years I've been driving it. These problems did seem to crop up when I went to a tank of ulsd. But over 80k miles I'm pretty happy with and extra $730 to run B100.

Overall it's a great car, the 03 wagons are a great car for BD

 

[Brian_Spilsbury]

I agree with AndyBees.
You WILL end up with IP problems if you run BIO for long enough in a high enough %.
I have been living on the edge with BIO in Ontario and my car, in over 200k of use with B100 down to B5 leaks like a sieve from almost everywhere. New IP going in this week. Our winters make it difficult to stay at a high enough concentration to prevent seal damage when we had to drop back to D2.

 

[philngrayce]

I don't think he said that, did he?

 

[Brian_Spilsbury]

I don't think he said that, did he?

I filled in the blanks in this:
Unless I am totally mistaken, the IP in the '03 JSW is no different than the IP in an '03 Golf or '01 ...... 99.5 thru '03 all have ALH engines with the same IP.

I have never heard of continued use of higher concentrations of BIO, not leading to pump seal failure, which most often shows up if you have to switch BACK to D2...like in winter.

As always, your mileage many vary. All of the members of our co-op have tales of woe after using BIO in their VW's after several years.

 

[Lug_Nut]

All of the members of our co-op have tales of woe after using BIO in their VW's after several years.

Is that a purchasing co-operative to meet minimum volume requirements from a commercial producer / reseller, or is that a manufacturing co-operative to make your own biodiesel?

 

[TDI4evah]

I've run home brew biodiesel in ALH cars since 2007 or so, on and off as I had oil to process. Concentrations ranged from 0 to 100 percent depending on trips, season, and oil availability.

In these six years I have yet to see the IP leak at all. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Even if one was to have IP leaks, viton seals for it are much less than buying regular diesel.

 

[runonbeer]

I don't think he said that, did he?

No he didn't say that.

I have been running Bsomething since I got my car 12 years ago with 24K miles on it. It has 298K on it now. Original pump. I put seals in it once in 2007. No big deal. I'm running B100 right now but I usually stick to B20-50.

I did also have to replace the N108 advance solenoid last year due to an electrical failure of that component. Not fuel related.

 

[runonbeer]

By the way, I have sealed up 20 leaking pumps so far THIS YEAR. It happens to all of them eventually. Bio or no bio.

 

[50harleyrider]

By the way, I have sealed up 20 leaking pumps so far THIS YEAR. It happens to all of them eventually. Bio or no bio.

I think you hit a home run there. All mechanical components are prone to wear out and my experience going on 6 years with B20-B100 is it aint gonna hurt your IP. If it's good biodiesel, it's gonna last longer!
The adblue engines could be another story

 

[TomB]

I filled in the blanks in this:
Unless I am totally mistaken, the IP in the '03 JSW is no different than the IP in an '03 Golf or '01 ...... 99.5 thru '03 all have ALH engines with the same IP.

I have never heard of continued use of higher concentrations of BIO, not leading to pump seal failure, which most often shows up if you have to switch BACK to D2...like in winter.

As always, your mileage many vary. All of the members of our co-op have tales of woe after using BIO in their VW's after several years.

HAHAHAHAHA. 2 2005 Passats running bio 100% for the whole time. Not one IP leak ever. Switched back for 2 years on D2 and no IP leaks.

 

[philngrayce]

I think the '05 has a very different pump from the 99.5 to 03s he is talking about.

 

[TomB]

I think the '05 has a very different pump from the 99.5 to 03s he is talking about.

I had the 2002 Jetta as well and never had the issue.