APR is just guessing if they have a ECU

[jsmutin]

I contacted Jeremy Cripe at APR and he was verry profesinal answered all of my questions sold me on how APR is the leader in engine performance upgrades .He checked to see if my car a 2013 Passat TDI was upgadeable and he said it was. I made a apontment with autherized Gearage for APR Wolfsburg Auto in Memphis they are amazing by the way and come highly recomended .They conected up my car and scaned it yes acording two APR they had a an up grade aviable .They removed the ECU tore off the glued in top carefully cutting the glue only to find no Referance pictures on there website after much searching they call APR and tell them the Processor #. To my shock they say they dont have a upgrade i can send it two them overnight and they can test it and might be able to get an ecu upgrade but they wouldnt comit to when they can have it back ,a car with out a ecu has nothing that works . I asked them why when they conected the unit it said there was an aviable up grade he said it must of been wrong . I asked who was going to pay for the Mechanics time they said they weren't. I now have an obvious tampered ecu unit with no up grade i contacted APR by email Jermy Cripe again and asked them the least they can do is pay wolfsbug for there time . Its been mutiple days and no response .I cant help but feal abused by APR and have to question a company that wont pay for wasted mechanics time? And cant help make good what they said they could do. makes me wonder what they are showing on there site as proven dyno testing if they dont eaven have an ECU upgrade for the 2013 Passat TDI they show amazing inscrease in power and torque all most 50 Foot pounds To good two be true

 

[808tdi]

I cant help but feal abused by APR

I know the feeling. It cost me several hundred dollars to do mine, and now I wish I had just gone with Malone. The first time I went in to get my APR flash I got the same thing that happened to you. The second time I went in they flashed it half way and bricked my ECU for a whole week, had to mail it to Alabama (APR HQ) and then gave me no compensation of any kind.

Now, even if I want to get any of the nice Rawtek components available for the TDI, I can't.... I would have to call a 600$ upgrade a loss, send my ECU to Malone, and then pay more money for their tune.

 

[bengone1]

I have heard that same story from more than a few customers, seems a bit shady.

Edit: If it makes you feel any better I flashed an APR dealer's car and their customer's car after they could not make good on a sale (tune was rolled into the car purchase 515 miles on a 2013 Beetle!). So it isn't the dealers screwing up.

 

[808tdi]

I'm actually surprised they haven't posted here yet.
On vortex if you even type the letters A-P-R they bust through the wall like Kool-Aid to defend their products.

 

[rimad]

Why would you blame APR? You should blame the dealer. It's dealers responsibility to check if there is software available. If they make a mistake it's on their own time of course. Why would you pay for all this?

Also please do not compare APR to Malone Tuning. It's like comparing Mercedes to Hyundai. APR is a fullblown tuning company employing numbers of engineers and most of them worked for Bosch or similar before. Malone is one man remote-tuning deal with shady OEM connections and no dyno access. Not saying Malone is bad or anything, just that you can not possibly compare the two.

What APR is going to do is possibly check the OEM calibrations in your ECU and compare it to the files they have. If they find a match they are going to re-calibrate your ECU and make a new file available in their database for direct-flash.

APR is making some of the finest products available and their ECU recalibrations are OEM-like. I drove their APR Stage 3+ kit for 1.8T engine for 4 years. Driveability was better than stock!

 

[808tdi]

Malone is one man remote-tuning deal with shady OEM connections and no dyno access.

Really? I think that statement needs to be fact checked

That being said your whole post is startlingly similar to what I predicted in my last post.

 

[rimad]

It is a fact. You can feel free to check that. Malone Tuning has no access to dyno. It's one man deal with possible help from outside. This is not necessarily a bad thing! No access to dyno is tho'.

Diesels are very easy to tune and very forgiving. This is why there are more dyno-free tuners out there for diesel cars than petrol.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4

 

[ejg3855]

Having been a Unitronic rep in the past this isn't all that uncommon, there are differences to the chips that can't be seen until the ecu is open.

Its not tampered if the ECU has been resealed with OEM adhesive, which if you say this shop is that good should be the case. I know Roc-Euro here does it that way.

You should have dealt with the shop the entire time not APR directly, from the sounds of it they went on your word that a tune existed. If you would have went to them and they said yes there is a tune, then they pull the ECU and try to flash and nothing exists then its on them.

As for Malone he will give you 100% better customer service than APR, he can do what you want him to do not just a canned file. I can't say he has a dyno in his shop but at the same time to develop tuning that isn't really necessary. Open road tuning is the best for cars people drive on the road.

 

[RDC98tdi]

APR definitely has the edge with gassers, I will agree with that. And 808, I was thinking the exact same thing as you posted that . But, rimad, this forum is full of Malone users who are very pleased. I wouldn't say your Mercedes to Hyundai comparison is very accurate.

 

[storx]

My 2004 was apr tuned....my 2009 is Malone tuned......excuse my language....but fuk apr... There tunes are conservative it's not even funny... Plus to top it off at SOWO they raffled an exhuast system/tune combo off and after CUTTING his stock out and replacing it.... The new tune had check engine lights that the stock tune didn't...... Then when they called there headquarters they asked the guy if he could tow his car home or leave it with them and they sort it out over the next few days.....the guy was from Texas and couldn't leave his car with them...so he tried to drive it and it wouldn't come out of limp mode.....ruining the guys weekend and to top it off they said it wasn't there fault the car acted this way and told him they wouldn't compensate him for anything.....if this was malone....he could of CUSTOM tuned it and it would have at least been drivable...

 

[Savageman69]

Id put my malone stage 2 tune against apr any day.....my car runs perfect and goes like no bodys business.

 

[diffas]

There are no real need for dyno when tuning a car. APR probably sue you for buying wrong kind of car.

 

[gotsoot]

put in a complaint with their local BBB

 

[mckpat03]

Isn't Mark Malone a software engineer or something similar? I swear I read that. And the internet never lies. But he's no joke. And not having access to a dyno isn't necessarily a fault or a shortcoming. Some of the best tuners have been remote tuners and/or dynoless.

 

[LNXGUY]

Why do people still waste their time with companies like APR when it comes to TDI tuning? There are way better options from guys that specialize in TDI's.....

 

[H2O2H]

Why do people still waste their time with companies like APR when it comes to TDI tuning? There are way better options from guys that specialize in TDI's.....

My opinion? I wouldn't use APR to tune my TDI or my gasser.
I would really love to post my detailed and descriptive feelings about those trolls, but it is only futile.

UM does not have a dyno, and they more thoroughly tune than APR for gassers.

 

[TDI-JAY]

I've never had a malone tune, nor have I heard a bad thing about them. I like the smaller, 1 on 1 take on the tune. You are a customer not a number to them.

My first TDI I ever had tuned, I watched Jeff @ RC tune it INFRONT of me with a computer, a dash cluster and some other crazy set up. It was @ an open dyno day but he never had the car on the rollers - just took the ECU out. Waved his magical brilliant wand over it and bam! I really liked that he did it himself, if you had a question he was a foot away from you and you could ask - to me thats huge.

I've heard the customer service is awesome @ malone just as well, he works with you one on one to sort problems out.

Is the TDI tuning more of a niche' market that appreciates the customer service? I think so.

 

[rimad]

Dyno is not necessary when tuning? It is more than necessary. It's a MUST! Especially when tuning heavily modded cars. I would never start a tuning business without dyno, period.

First, how would you know what changes affect power in what way? How would you know how much power you are making? Accurate high sampling rate lambda readings? You re-calibrate customers ECU without knowing all this? It's irresponsibility!

The only reason your cars even run is because they are diesel cars. As I said before diesels are very forgiving. You really gotta be an idiot of a tuner for a diesel car to "run" bad. Calibrations can be crap and car can still run for thousands of miles without problem. However you may have slashed its lifetime in half and you will never even know.

I had 3 of my cars tuned by APR, software is proprietary of course, encrypted. I had Golf IV 1.8T with Stage 3+ for 3 years. ECU calibration was stock like. I logged everything hundreds of time and software was highly perfected. This is petrol car but I am sure no diesel tune will leave APR without being perfected as this one is.

I had many tunes from Malone as well. His software is not encrypted (it takes loooots of expertise to implement this) so i was able to take a look at the changes myself. I wasn't pleased with the work. For the one tune I provided dyno for, i got refunded full price. Other one I was offered half money back but I refused. Other cars I didn't even dyno. Anyway I returned all cars back to stock until I can find better alternative.

 

[diffas]

I would never start a tuning business without dyno, period.

First, how would you know what changes affect power in what way? How would you know how much power you are making? Accurate high sampling rate lambda readings? You re-calibrate customers ECU without knowing all this? It's irresponsibility!

It is called skill. Some have it.

 

[H2O2H]

No, my point was, you don't have to 'own' a dyno to produce a good tune.
UM doesn't own a dyno and slams APR's tune, when it comes to the Golf R and TTRS.
APR's tune calibration is stock like? Wow, that is very... humorous.

They can't calibrate an N75 or throttle if their life depended on it. They had to rob UM's technology (they themselves posted on vwvortex UM's binary code when they coincidently found a fix to a TTRS prog issue, that UM had before them). Isn't that interesting?!

Like I said, posting about APR is pointless. Everyone will learn in time who they are and of their quality. Good luck.

 

[rimad]

H2O2H, they had APR Stage 3+ calibrated with stock N75. Spool was EXCELLENT. So yes they can calibrate N75 PID and if you knew how PID works and how to tune the values for it you would be very amazed by this.

APR employs number of engineers to do calibrations for various cars. They did not steal anyones technology, they have no reason to. They were the first to do lots of things. Two of their engineers seperated and started up REVO if you didn't know which lead to a huge legal dispute. They have number of patents, you can read about them online.

diffas, no, it's called guessing.

 

[rimad]

Anyway this is not to post good things about APR thread. I am definitely NOT doing that.

You guys have NO idea what kind of tunes went through my hands. From Unitronic (6-7 different files), Eurodyne (tons of files), APR (yes even non encrypted ones), MTM Germany, REVO and tons of other tuning companies in Europe you never even hard of.

I recently took interest in diesel engines since I bought two diesel cars. I am just going by what I saw so far. It's completely natural to defend your own choise. You can't buy a tune from Malone and then talk **** about it. But I went past that a long time ago and do not sell myself for a couple of hundred bucks, I try to be realistic and honest for the sake of other people because as far as I know this is most expensive hobby ever.

 

[diffas]

diffas, no, it's called guessing.

That may be case in Sweden.

 

[rimad]

diffas, how else would you know the result if you do not measure it? It is a case in Sweden and should be anywhere else where people take things responsibly and seriously. I really do not get your point.

To tune without dyno you would literally have to live in the car for a week or two and still you would miss things without a probe.

 

[Savageman69]

if malone is guessing then he should be gambling more...he knows what hes doing and there are tons of guys with tunes to prove it here...your talking out your butt as far as im concerned there is maybe 1% of people tuned by apr on here...maybe? i have yet to see anyone say anything good about them in the diesel world here so that tells me enough.

Heres your dyno for you boss

http://youtu.be/L6RlMq7woJA

 

[79TA7.6]

The tuning and hardware it takes to put down big numbers on a dyno can be, not necessarily are, totally different that what it takes to make big power on the pavement or strip. I personally don't give a rat about dyno numbers, I care only for real life USEABLE results. All of this talk about dyno numbers is a waste of time, except for bragging rights.

 

[808tdi]

Can Malone overwrite an APR tune? After I get done with my grieving process of losing 600$ to an (arguably) inferior and uncustomizable tune I plan on going with Malone. I want that Rawtek exhaust!

 

[bengone1]

Dyno is not necessary when tuning? It is more than necessary. It's a MUST! Especially when tuning heavily modded cars. I would never start a tuning business without dyno, period.

First, how would you know what changes affect power in what way? How would you know how much power you are making? Accurate high sampling rate lambda readings? You re-calibrate customers ECU without knowing all this? It's irresponsibility!

The only reason your cars even run is because they are diesel cars. As I said before diesels are very forgiving. You really gotta be an idiot of a tuner for a diesel car to "run" bad. Calibrations can be crap and car can still run for thousands of miles without problem. However you may have slashed its lifetime in half and you will never even know.

I had 3 of my cars tuned by APR, software is proprietary of course, encrypted. I had Golf IV 1.8T with Stage 3+ for 3 years. ECU calibration was stock like. I logged everything hundreds of time and software was highly perfected. This is petrol car but I am sure no diesel tune will leave APR without being perfected as this one is.

I had many tunes from Malone as well. His software is not encrypted (it takes loooots of expertise to implement this) so i was able to take a look at the changes myself. I wasn't pleased with the work. For the one tune I provided dyno for, i got refunded full price. Other one I was offered half money back but I refused. Other cars I didn't even dyno. Anyway I returned all cars back to stock until I can find better alternative.

Very odd post that raised my eyebrow. You have seen all these tunes and know what to do and look for, but are buying other people's tunes and downloading the file to "examine" it. If you have all of the equipment and knowledge I can think of only one reason.

You say you were not happy with what was in it, care to explain exactly what your issue was? Was logging the car and getting your file revised not possible?

As far as dynos are concerned, owning and having access to a dyno is the same thing. All the dyno numbers in the world won't make your car the fastest or the most drivable. That said Malone still has higher dyno numbers sooo...

 

[powerdrive]

Isn't Mark Malone a software engineer or something similar? I swear I read that. And the internet never lies. But he's no joke. And not having access to a dyno isn't necessarily a fault or a shortcoming. Some of the best tuners have been remote tuners and/or dynoless.

Software engineer has nothing to do with engine tuning. Malone cut his teeth from other tuners chiefly a polish guy with the user name alligator, just like Kerma. Both of them began by getting alligator to tune files for them, when they figured out what he was doing they dropped him. Alligator used other tuners files to figure it out himself. APR was caught stealing a GIAC file in Atlanta on an Audi they were having difficulty with. It was all over the Audiworld forum. Garrett Lim of GIAC was one of the original tuners, not diesels though. The software APR initially used to tune was designed and written by...that's right, Garrett Lim. The real test of proper tuning is reliability. not dynos or HP output. The only way to gauge reliability is when your tuner tells you no, it's too much, and longterm real world data on how many with the tune have no issues and mileage to compare to a stock engine. Just one look at this section of the forum right now and it's evident there are problems with some tuners.

 

[rimad]

Dyno is not about power numbers, it's about checking how engine acts when altering different parameters and especially having lambda probe so you can check mixture.

Savageman69, not enough people were interested in TDI tuning before, this is probably why APR never entered diesel scene, now that they have...all I am saying I would rather go with them than Malone, that's all. Why? They take a car with specific engine, dyno tune it to perfection and then fit this software to as many models as possible for distribution. This is why the person that created the thread got rejected. Car that they tuned wasn't a match to his even ECUs seem to be similar. APR here refused to "guess" like other tuners do. They refuse to re-flash your ECU with guesstimated parameters. They prefere having the car on dyno, properly tested. What is wrong with this? As I said, dyno is not about numbers, it's about fine tuning.

bengone1, I just had lots of connections and lots of those tunes just landed into my lap. I never took interest in tuning because it really takes a long time to learn everything about a certain ECU model and then there are hundreds of them. However I can spot a bad tune...even not "proper" tune, that's all. Diesels are insanely easy to tune so I might be doing that if I can find enough time for it and a free dyno