Appears to be a Fix for Gen 1 cars! Gen 2-3 are Software.

[S2000_guy]

Sign me up for a massively discounted '16 TDI 6MT + life time supply of free air freshener to kill that I-sat-at-a-lot-for-2-years smell, for say 10K ?

I assume you're signing up for a 3 liter TDI, because there are no 2 liter TDIs in the US for model year '16. The EPA withheld emissions certification for the '16s while investigating the cheat; when the cheat went public, VW withdrew the application.

No EPA/CARB certification, no '16 2.0 TDIs for the US.

 

[ecode]

HUH?

The court documents have stated from day one that unless there's an approved fix, the only allowable disposition for the repurchased vehicles is salvage/scrap. Salvage the parts (ECU and a few emissions parts are prohibited) and crush what's left. They cannot even be exported to another, more lenient market without a fix.

With a fix, they can be sold in the US or exported, in whatever quantities VW deems economically feasible. It would seem to me that VW has a lot of money riding on the approval of a fix. They have had a lot riding on it since day one of the settlement.

Yeah, many '09 vehicles likely aren't worth fixing. But fixing many '14 or '15 models might well be more profitable than the scrapyard.

Yeah, that's what I meant. Seems like few people want the fix initially... so the hope for VW would be that they can resell the Gen1's that they've fixed and make some money back.

I guess it will come down to number crunching as to what they think they can get for them on the open market, and what it costs to fix them. Certainly they aren't going to get anywhere near what they've already paid out.... but something is better than nothing.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Not sure there's any new info here. I heard months ago that Gen 1 cars would be fixed with new exhaust components and a re-flash, no Adblue addition. And that Gen 2 and 3 cars would require more extensive fixes, the first phase of which is a software flash. Those are already taking place on the Gen 3 cars. They will get hardware, however, in the second phase of the fix.

The big news will be when the EPA approves the fixes for Gen 1 and 2 cars.

And I've given up on getting a leftover '15. Latest I heard is that they'll have to have both stages of the fix before they're offered for sale. That could be the better part of a year away from now.

 

[BleachedBora]

With the P0401 code since it's part of the emissions system they will probably require you to fix it before the fix. As was stated, if any code has to do with the emissions system it must first be addressed before a fix.

No info on what stage we are in.

The only info on hardware required is that VW will supply dealers with a kit to make it easier for ordering. Initially they will have a 20 week supply sent to them.

Digressing for a moment (dangerous huh?) to previous info - one of my good customers in SoCal is right next to one of VW's big testing facilities. When this all went down he said they were testing solutions 24/7, sleeping in their cars etc... As of a few months ago 2009's were considered a writeoff with no fix proposed; VW's estimate was that 80% of the cars remained on the road. Coupled with a different exhaust system and they are now 8 years old it does make sense. Additionally he stated that any car with over 100k or with major damage would not be fixed.

 

[M_R]

And I've given up on getting a leftover '15. Latest I heard is that they'll have to have both stages of the fix before they're offered for sale. That could be the better part of a year away from now.

This is correct, was told that VW Canada told its dealers this last Friday and that the hardware will only be available in the first quarter of 2018, and that all the in service 2015 will need to be fixed before the new 2015 get fixed for sale, meaning they get priority for the parts as they become available.
So yes you can find a 2015 put a deposit on it but it will be over a year before you can take delivery.
My Q is what is the general consensus on what the discount would be?
I would love a 0km 2015 Highline wagon next year which has a 2015 msrp of $38,616. So in 2018, a three-year-old new car ?? thinking about 10 k off msrp? I don't know, maybe more.
What do you guys think VW will blow these out at?

 

[BleachedBora]

Good question - on one hand they might want a premium because it's still a "new" car, they know they have been popular, and they can play the "there will be no more after this" card. On the other hand they may just want to get the nightmare behind them.

If only we had a batch of Alltrack TDI's waiting to be fixed and sold...

 

[sriracha]

...Additionally he stated that any car with over 100k or with major damage would not be fixed.

Interested to see if this is true. My 2013 Golf TDI has almost 80k miles on it and I drive a little over 20k/year. I was planning on getting the fix as late as possible.

 

[BleachedBora]

Let me rephrase - if you turn it in VW will not fix it. If you own it and elect to have it fixed I don't think there is any stipulation on mileage.

 

[sriracha]

That makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. You had me browsing for a Mercedes 300SD on craigslist.

 

[BleachedBora]

Lol - I've been looking for a nice 300CD to pick up if the right price comes along...

 

[epssax]

Can't replace it

I was considering buy back, but cannot find anything else I like. Now rethinking and considering the fix. Does anyone know whether the warranty after the fix be the same as GEN 3 (50,000 after fix). I also have a P0401 CEL code. Will that effect the fix or VW's willingness to do it without first fixing the P0401 first? Any guesses? Thanks

I am trying to decide. I have a 2012 JSW with 39K on the odo. It's got every option and I love the car. I hit a chunk of metal on a stormy night in December and it broke radiator supports and who knows what else. I had to have the transmission pan replaced as it bent it and went ahead and had the trans service. I keep looking online and can't find a car I like that I can buy with what they are going to pay me. I have had 18 Vw diesels and love the CRD engine best of all! I like features on my wagon in specific: keyless entry/start, bluetooth, navigation, and panoramic sunroof.

I can't get these things without spending 34K for a gas car(golf wagon). So I,am thinking get the fix and they'll pay me 5500 and extend the warranty for fuel related systems. I'll probably have to spend 2,000 getting the parts replaced underneath my car.

Any opinions or suggestions. Thanks.

 

[St.Hubbins]

I am trying to decide. I have a 2012 JSW with 39K on the odo. It's got every option and I love the car. I hit a chunk of metal on a stormy night in December and it broke radiator supports and who knows what else. I had to have the transmission pan replaced as it bent it and went ahead and had the trans service. I keep looking online and can't find a car I like that I can buy with what they are going to pay me. I have had 18 Vw diesels and love the CRD engine best of all! I like features on my wagon in specific: keyless entry/start, bluetooth, navigation, and panoramic sunroof.

I can't get these things without spending 34K for a gas car(golf wagon). So I,am thinking get the fix and they'll pay me 5500 and extend the warranty for fuel related systems. I'll probably have to spend 2,000 getting the parts replaced underneath my car.

Any opinions or suggestions. Thanks.

sounds to this bloke like you've got the car you want, so bird in hand and all that... at the very least keep loving it and see what pops onto the scene in the next year or two... i'm keeping a close eye on upcoming diesel offerings of all makes, plus everything Volvo is putting out in the wagon line.

and dang, with 18 TDI's on your CV, you're either old as heck or a serious diesel fanatic!

 

[M_R]

I am trying to decide. I have a 2012 JSW with 39K on the odo. It's got every option and I love the car. I hit a chunk of metal on a stormy night in December and it broke radiator supports and who knows what else. I had to have the transmission pan replaced as it bent it and went ahead and had the trans service. I keep looking online and can't find a car I like that I can buy with what they are going to pay me. I have had 18 Vw diesel and love the CRD engine best of all! I like features on my wagon in specific: keyless entry/start, bluetooth, navigation, and panoramic sunroof.

I can't get these things without spending 34K for a gas car(golf wagon). So I,am thinking get the fix and they'll pay me 5500 and extend the warranty for fuel related systems. I'll probably have to spend 2,000 getting the parts replaced underneath my car.

Any opinions or suggestions. Thanks.

I just decided to park my 300k km 2010 Highline wagon which I love and buy a 2015 Highline TDI wagon to replace it for $30k. I will get between $16k and $21 K from VW for the 2010, and then another $3,500 for the 2015 once VW fixes it plus all sorts of extra warranty. so I walk away with a much newer ride with almost no mileage for $7.5k-$12.5k.

Not sure if you owned your car before the cutoff date for buyback option, if so, I would recommend you think about doing the same

 

[rotarykid]

This is correct, was told that VW Canada told its dealers this last Friday and that the hardware will only be available in the first quarter of 2018, and that all the in service 2015 will need to be fixed before the new 2015 get fixed for sale, meaning they get priority for the parts as they become available.
So yes you can find a 2015 put a deposit on it but it will be over a year before you can take delivery.
My Q is what is the general consensus on what the discount would be?
I would love a 0km 2015 Highline wagon next year which has a 2015 msrp of $38,616. So in 2018, a three-year-old new car ?? thinking about 10 k off msrp? I don't know, maybe more.
What do you guys think VW will blow these out at?

One should also consider that VWAG has before on more than one occasion sold new ~two year old new diesel cars on purpose....

The last time this happened was with the 2006 Diesel Editions that were sold new until spring of 2008 all the way up until the 2009 TDI-CRs showed up. I remember seeing new 06's going for sticker right up to the first 09 CR demonstrators arriving in summer of 2008....

Also do not forget nor discount the fact that there will by then have quite a backlog of interest in a new TDI car by that time with this time without the option of actual new car.....

There are still plenty of people out there who will want to buy a new TDI again, the dealer I get parts from says they have people coming in all time looking for new diesel offerings that are surprised to find out what is currently going on!

 

[tvmaster]

"Gen 1 vehicles will require parts. Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase 1 are software only..."

Also to answer your other question, if a customer brings in a vehicle with a CEL then the dealer opens a case on it. If the CEL has anything to do with the emissions and the update then it has to be resolved. If it is outside of warranty then it's the customers responsibility to fix before the modification.

does a CEL include a DPF filter / chk engine light?

 

[sardo_67]

We keep forgetting that there's no "fix". There's a 90% band-aid, that brings the cars to pollute at may be 2-3x rate of by-the-book-EPA-book numbers.

There's, of course, the question of whether those EPA-mandated Nox were ever realistic to begin with

that there is the real issue, not VW.

 

[sardo_67]

Not sure there's any new info here. I heard months ago that Gen 1 cars would be fixed with new exhaust components and a re-flash, no Adblue addition. And that Gen 2 and 3 cars would require more extensive fixes, the first phase of which is a software flash. Those are already taking place on the Gen 3 cars. They will get hardware, however, in the second phase of the fix.

The big news will be when the EPA approves the fixes for Gen 1 and 2 cars.

And I've given up on getting a leftover '15. Latest I heard is that they'll have to have both stages of the fix before they're offered for sale. That could be the better part of a year away from now.

I see a lot of 15s on autotrader, although they are asking 32,000 for a 2015 nav jetta...........

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Try and buy one. You won't be able to.

 

[mishkaya]

Try and buy one. You won't be able to.

You are correct. I have tried on more than one occasion, only to be told they are not yet available for sale...

 

[sardo_67]

Try and buy one. You won't be able to.

they say they are fixed. I'm not arguing just saying what I've seen.


or in the fine print somewhere they have the stipulation that it's only a deposit and cant buy until more **** is fixed on it?

 

[sardo_67]

also what years are what generation? I saw someone post a 2012 6MT with some very nice mods that I kinda want to buy, I am doing some research into what my possible options would be since it has a full aftermarket turbo back exhaust

 

[DanB36]

MY2015 is Gen3. MY 2014- Passats are Gen2. MY 2014- everything else is Gen1.

 

[compu_85]

No, that's incorrect. 15s are Gen 3. Passats 12-14 are Gen 2. Other cars 9-14 are Gen 1.

 

[DanB36]

Well, what I meant was correct, but my notation wasn't very sensible. Read "MY 2014-" as "model year 2014 minus", with the assumption that everyone knows we're dealing with only CR 2-liter TDIs, and you'd have my meaning. Your statement is much clearer.

 

[M_R]

FYI our local Toronto dealers are willing to put your name on a 2015 tdi with a refundable $500 deposit, however delivery won't be until first quater 2018 once the hardware fix has been done, and perhaps longer as all the 2015 that are in service right now will need to be done before new VW inventory gets touched.

 

[Rhino1829]

also what years are what generation? I saw someone post a 2012 6MT with some very nice mods that I kinda want to buy, I am doing some research into what my possible options would be since it has a full aftermarket turbo back exhaust

If it's a full turbo back, then it's for sure deleted of at least the dpf and cats. I'm in a similar boat being deleted, and have several "what if" scenarios running through my head. If it's running the cr140 or 170 turbo the OE emissions components should just bolt up. Get those bits put on, retune, and go to the dealer for the fix...simple solution there. My concern is rolling up with a gtb series turbo and how the dealer would react, let alone what they'd do, or not do.

I'm in for the fix but am planning on holding out to see what some of the other guys/gals who are modded end up experiencing and make my plan from there.

 

[ecode]

If it's a full turbo back, then it's for sure deleted of at least the dpf and cats. I'm in a similar boat being deleted, and have several "what if" scenarios running through my head. If it's running the cr140 or 170 turbo the OE emissions components should just bolt up. Get those bits put on, retune, and go to the dealer for the fix...simple solution there. My concern is rolling up with a gtb series turbo and how the dealer would react, let alone what they'd do, or not do.
I'm in for the fix but am planning on holding out to see what some of the other guys/gals who are modded end up experiencing and make my plan from there.

The Canadian deal addresses this - essentially if the dealer needs to add back the OEM tune, or hardware, in order to then do the fix, the owner is on the hook for that cost.

Seems like the Canadian VW team learned from the US settlement...

 

[Rico567]

The Canadian deal addresses this - essentially if the dealer needs to add back the OEM tune, or hardware, in order to then do the fix, the owner is on the hook for that cost.
Seems like the Canadian VW team learned from the US settlement...

I can't see how it'll be much different. The mechanical portion of the "fix" will consist of a kit of parts, from what I understand. If that kit won't just bolt in place of whatever is there on a stock car, I'm guessing it's down tools at that point, and the owner is going to have to start spending money.

 

[BleachedBora]

Correct - as long as:

a) There is no check engine light for emissions related problems when you bring it in for the work to be done

and

b) Whatever the dealer takes out can be replaced using
1) the provided parts in the kit
2) no extra additional parts

Then you have nothing to worry about.

If the modifications take longer than 3 hours then the dealer is required to provide you with a loaner car.

If the work is completed and there is a check engine light (for example if you have an EGR delete and had it tuned out) then the dealer is required to halt all work until they can get on the line with VW tech to figure out what the problem is and if it's something that they have to fix. Any non-approved modifications that will need to be fixed to bring the car back into compliance will be billed to the customer.

-BB

 

[cecaumenus]

In light of the information about the Gen 1 fix provided at the beginning of this thread, I assume that recent articles in the press with statements such as the following are misguided:

About 325,000 older VW TDI models do not have SCR—and many analysts have expressed skepticism about whether they can be modified to meet emissions standards at all.
An SCR system includes a considerable amount of hardware, so adding it to a car would likely be complex and expensive.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Business/I...meet-emissions-standards-and-those-that-can-t