Appears to be a Fix for Gen 1 cars! Gen 2-3 are Software.

BleachedBora

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'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy ALH, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq
10k a year?? So a 2013 like mine with more than 40k miles gets crushed? That's insane.
Correct - good friend with a mint '14 Beetle with 70ish k on it. Off to the crusher it goes. As does my parents '11 JSW. Perfectly reliable for the 50k they drove it (148k at time of turn in) and in excellent condition . :-/
 

DieselMann99

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Correct - good friend with a mint '14 Beetle with 70ish k on it. Off to the crusher it goes. As does my parents '11 JSW. Perfectly reliable for the 50k they drove it (148k at time of turn in) and in excellent condition . :-/
Wow. I can maybe understand crushing the '11 JSW with 148k. But crushing a 2013 TDI with 45K on it?? That's insane !! That's like putting a healthy 4 year old dog to sleep for no reason. And emotionally, it feels almost the same.
 

ecode

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turbobrick240

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Wow. I can maybe understand crushing the '11 JSW with 148k. But crushing a 2013 TDI with 45K on it?? That's insane !! That's like putting a healthy 4 year old dog to sleep for no reason. And emotionally, it feels almost the same.

Sheesh, I like my car too, but I love my dog- no comparison for me. It sure is a shame if such low mileage cars get crushed though.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Correct - good friend with a mint '14 Beetle with 70ish k on it. Off to the crusher it goes. As does my parents '11 JSW. Perfectly reliable for the 50k they drove it (148k at time of turn in) and in excellent condition . :-/
Where do you see that? I suspect they're delaying fixing the bought back cars because they don't have enough repair parts and the EPA wants them to fix the cars that are in service first. Some of the bought back cars will probably be crushed, but I bet a lot of them will return to service.
 

DieselMann99

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And where is the politics? Admonishing that Fox News is a horrible 'News' outfit, no matter what they run, isn't political.
You don't think that's a political swipe? OK, whatever you say.
 

ecode

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You don't think that's a political swipe? OK, whatever you say.
Nope, not at all. If I wanted to get political I certainly could, being a Canadian watching the circus that is the US government right now...

But no, Fox news was horrible LONG before they hitched their wagons to the Trump train... which as it seems, are slowly un-hitching themselves over the social media attacks from POTUS and the Comms Director.... but I digress.

Yay for fixing Gen 1, to all those who wanted it.
 

BleachedBora

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'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy ALH, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq
Here's the deal, I know of a company that I'm not allowed to reference by name that has a contract to crush 200,000 cars + ~200,000 more if a fix is not approved. Because a fix has been approved that means "just" the original 200k VW planned on will have to be taken care of.

We're looking this at an enthusiast standpoint. From a business standpoint VW wants this whole nightmare behind them. They would rather people buy new cars than buy their "fixed" cars, the fact that they are TDI's is immaterial. It's less expensive for them to write off a majority of them rather than fix them and in essence CPO a ton of cars.

They look at the cost to fix, remarket, and warranty these cars vs what can they sell them for. If they can take a business writeoff then most are going the way of the dodo regardless of an approved fix or not. Because a fix was approved a whole lot more will be saved from being eliminated, but still a huge chunk of these are going to be gone. Higher miles per year, from the general public's perception, is a negative. Because of this they have the 10k/year rule. I do not know if it's going to be a typical German "1 mile over so kill it," or if there will be wiggle room for slightly higher miles but still great condition. It's really going to be up to the inspector, they will have the final decision on what is fixed and what gets shredded. I am pretty confident though that the inspectors will be told that if there is any doubt err on the side of getting rid of it.

-BB
 

BleachedBora

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'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy ALH, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq
I hope you are right. That would certainly be good news for both of us. :)

I've mentioned before that I have vendors that have seen TDI engines in Germany and Poland come off the assembly line only to be thrown straight into the scrap pile. Less expensive to keep the line running and shred things then stop the line. While that doesn't fully apply here, the idea of getting rid of things to move on to newer things does.
 

peterdaniel

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Here's the deal, I know of a company that I'm not allowed to reference by name that has a contract to crush 200,000 cars + ~200,000 more if a fix is not approved. Because a fix has been approved that means "just" the original 200k VW planned on will have to be taken care of.

We're looking this at an enthusiast standpoint. From a business standpoint VW wants this whole nightmare behind them. They would rather people buy new cars than buy their "fixed" cars, the fact that they are TDI's is immaterial. It's less expensive for them to write off a majority of them rather than fix them and in essence CPO a ton of cars.

They look at the cost to fix, remarket, and warranty these cars vs what can they sell them for. If they can take a business writeoff then most are going the way of the dodo regardless of an approved fix or not. Because a fix was approved a whole lot more will be saved from being eliminated, but still a huge chunk of these are going to be gone. Higher miles per year, from the general public's perception, is a negative. Because of this they have the 10k/year rule. I do not know if it's going to be a typical German "1 mile over so kill it," or if there will be wiggle room for slightly higher miles but still great condition. It's really going to be up to the inspector, they will have the final decision on what is fixed and what gets shredded. I am pretty confident though that the inspectors will be told that if there is any doubt err on the side of getting rid of it.

-BB

Do you think they will save the unsold new 14's? I have my eye on one
 

BleachedBora

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'81 DMC-12, '15 GL350 CDI 275 hp/448 tq - '81 Caddy ALH, '05 E320 CDI 250hp/450 tq
Any '14 under 30,000 miles with a clean title will most likely be fixed. :)
 

peterdaniel

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Great! Now all I need to do is wait for VW to ok the sale of them and Im on it like yesterday!
 

GoFaster

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I'll be surprised if VW crushes 200,000 cars. We'll have to wait and see.
I won't be. Rough numbers ...

~480,000 cars involved

About 3/4 will be bought back so 360,000 cars (We know they've already bought back, or have made arrangements to buy back, most of this number) - About 50,000 per model year involved.

Anything bought back that's 2009-2010 is surely going to be history because it'll be too old to sell for a worthwhile amount, and those are the ones that need the DPF replaced because it was one piece with the LNT. That's about 30% of the total. (VW has a fix planned for those models to cover the owners that want to keep their cars. IMO none of the 2009s that were bought back will get fixed with the repair kit that includes the DPF.)

Anything with high mileage is history. What percentage of these are over 100,000 mi? Probably most of the 2011 and 2012s are. A few of the 2013s will be. Call it two more full model years - another 30%.

Now we're at 60% of the bought-back cars ... call it 200,000 give or take. VW's number makes sense.

Anything needing non-trivial repairs of any sort, or which has been modified (whether emission systems or otherwise), is history. This is where it gets harder to estimate. Vehicles are more likely to get modded or to have damage left unrepaired as they get older, and once modded they tend not to get un-modded, so the "mod+damage" percentage probably has significant overlap with the "old" and "high mileage" groups. Same situation with breakdowns.

Going at it from the other direction, 2015 models are almost certain to get fixed and re-sold (unless they had collision damage). 2014 are also highly likely. 2013 the percentage that will be high mileage, or have non-functional A/C or other problems or have been modded probably starts getting noticeable, 2012 I'll guess 50/50 odds, 2011 most will be high mileage and/or problems and/or damage and/or modded, 2010-2009 forget it. So of the bought-back cars basically 3 model years survive - about 150,000 of them. A few older ones allowed to survive will offset a few newer ones that aren't worth repairing.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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That's a much higher bought-back count than I've read. I saw not too long ago that about 215,000 cars had been bought back in the US. If it's really 360,000 the numbers you share make more sense.
 

GoFaster

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Bought back plus offers sent is up there. Assuming that people who filed for buyback will go through with it. Some might change to fix now that it's available, but I think it will be a small number.
 

DanB36

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I literally quoted it.
No, you literally didn't. Fox says that VW says that performance won't be affected. That's true. US News says that VW says that economy may be affected. That's also true. Performance and economy are two different things.
 

bhtooefr

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Unless you're arguing that fuel consumption is a performance metric.

However, in layman's speak, performance is metrics like 0-60 and top speed.
 

DieselMann99

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No, you literally didn't. Fox says that VW says that performance won't be affected. That's true. US News says that VW says that economy may be affected. That's also true. Performance and economy are two different things.
Thank you, Dan. I didn't have the inclination to explain that to the guy.
 

sriracha

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I had always planned on keeping my Golf TDI. Can't wait to see the real world results of the fix...Then I will decide whether or not to do the fix.

On a side note, I wonder what the implications of a CP3 HPFP upgrade would be on the fix and associated warranty?
 

GoFaster

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I would expect that VW wants the vehicle to be absolutely stock in every conceivable respect of the fuel and emission control systems when they implement the "fix", because that's the way the car passed its certification tests. A CP3 injector pump instead of a CP4 is an unvalidated modification.

And, once you have the fix in place, you will now have a warranty on the CP4 HPFP.

If it were my car, I'd get the fix done with the car absolutely stock when it went into the shop to get the fix done, then just drive it as-is until such time as the "fix" warranty is done or somewhere close, THEN do the CP3 pump and whatever else seems appropriate at the time. By that time, we (collectively) should have a pretty good handle on how the "fixed" cars stand up.
 

turbobrick240

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I had always planned on keeping my Golf TDI. Can't wait to see the real world results of the fix...Then I will decide whether or not to do the fix.

On a side note, I wonder what the implications of a CP3 HPFP upgrade would be on the fix and associated warranty?
I very much doubt that they would perform the fix on a car with cp3 without putting it back to stock first. As far as the warranty goes, it depends what system fails. If you have brake problems or a/c problems for instance, the hpfp has nothing to do with it. If a fuel injector fails on a car w cp3 (pretty rare) , they would likely deny coverage.
 
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