Appears to be a Fix for Gen 1 cars! Gen 2-3 are Software.

[BleachedBora]

I had some interesting information sent to me today. I am not going to give away my source as it's internal, however this was absent of the usual "proprietary and confidential" tags that I've seen with all the other docs. That said I'm only posting this part right now...

How many parts are involved with the TDI remedy?
Gen 1 vehicles will require parts, Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase I are software only. In an effort to simplify ordering, we will be provide "kits" vs. individual part numbers for vehicles requiring hardware.

I have a LOT more information than that, however I do not want to post it all. That said if someone asks something that is concretely addressed in the doc I'll answer it in my own words.
Anyway, first ray of good news in a while!
-BB

 

[tobianogreg]

What kind of parts for gen. 01? SCR?

 

[GoFaster]

Any major differences from what was proposed in the consent decree? (Different LNT plus software)

 

[BleachedBora]

Only parts that are addressed for gen 1 is a new Catalytic converter. Additionally if it has already been replaced there are no credits for previous repairs. All Cats must be returned directly to VW.

I haven't read the whole consent decree, sorry Brian! A previous document I had did say that there would be a different LNT and a software fix, but that is not addressed in this latest doc.

 

[pdq import repair]

I would expect DPF, Nox cat, main cat and EGR low pressure filter, and software switch too, of course.

 

[BleachedBora]

Agreed

 

[rtking]

Hmmm... would love more info on Gen 1 cars and results. If this comes to fruition, I may end-up changing from "Buy Back" to "Fix."

 

[GoFaster]

"Catalytic converter" probably is a generic term for "LNT". So, no real surprise.

Wonder what they're doing for the early models where the LNT is one piece with the DPF?

 

[BleachedBora]

Interestingly it says that the authorized repair time is 3 hours. If it takes longer than that then the dealer is required to provide a loaner.

 

[BleachedBora]

Gofaster: I was trying to find the post where someone missed their appointment by a few minutes and was told they had to reschedule.

For future reference, "What will happen if a customer misses their scheduled buyback appointment time?
The customer misses their appointment time, they have until the end of the same day to make their appointment, otherwise they will need to contact 844-98-CLAIM to reschedule. The earliest appointment will be scheduled out a minimum of 14 days to receive a new check."

 

[meerschm]

A reminder of what was included detail in the court docs from June:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5095172&postcount=3

from: https://www.justice.gov/opa/file/871306/download

and as repeated several times here:

For Gen 1:
Quote:
3.2.1 Require the installation of a new exhaust flap, EGR filter, and NOx Trap
that meets the specifications of BASF TEX2064, as proposed by Settling Defendants to
EPA and CARB on January 28, 2016, or, subject to EPA/CARB approval, such other
functionally and effectively equivalent hardware or software, provided that Settling
Defendants propose such other hardware or software in the applicable Proposed
Emissions Modification.

 

[BCPassat]

As a Gen 2 owner that is great news BB.

I was fearful that they would not bother with a fix for the Gen 2s.

 

[earlyd]

I was considering buy back, but cannot find anything else I like. Now rethinking and considering the fix. Does anyone know whether the warranty after the fix be the same as GEN 3 (50,000 after fix). I also have a P0401 CEL code. Will that effect the fix or VW's willingness to do it without first fixing the P0401 first? Any guesses? Thanks

 

[Trade Wind]

BB, does your source say adblue consumption will increase? By how much? Does your source mention if performance will change? If so, in what way? For Gen 2 that is.

 

[BleachedBora]

BB, does your source say adblue consumption will increase? By how much? Does your source mention if performance will change? If so, in what way? For Gen 2 that is.

I was hoping someone would ask this...I'll quote this one.
----------
"Will customers be made aware of the future need for AdBlue fluid on vehicles that may get an AdBlue system installed? Will they know this when choosing the option to modify their vehicle?"

Performance impacts, including changes in AdBlue usage, will be disclosed in the official disclosure document.
----------

BTW, it's the same answer for how each vehicle will be affected by the modifications.

 

[GoFaster]

No one knows what will happen when someone wants the "fix" done on a car that has a pre-existing emission control problem (unless that leaked document addresses this in some way).

In my opinion ... if VW wants you to pay to replace a failed DPF before having the "fix" done ... they can have the car back and eat that problem themselves.

 

[GoFaster]

I was hoping someone would ask this...I'll quote this one.
----------
"Will customers be made aware of the future need for AdBlue fluid on vehicles that may get an AdBlue system installed? Will they know this when choosing the option to modify their vehicle?"

Performance impacts, including changes in AdBlue usage, will be disclosed in the official disclosure document.
----------

" ... that may get an AdBlue system installed ..." conflicts with the only parts being addressed being a "new catalytic converter". Typo?

 

[BleachedBora]

"Gen 1 vehicles will require parts. Gen 2 and Gen 3 Phase 1 are software only..."

Also to answer your other question, if a customer brings in a vehicle with a CEL then the dealer opens a case on it. If the CEL has anything to do with the emissions and the update then it has to be resolved. If it is outside of warranty then it's the customers responsibility to fix before the modification.

 

[tdi54]

Thank you for the update and I am glad there might be a fix in place for gen 1 cars.

 

[compu_85]

Hopefully Gen2 owners get the same awesome warranty Gen3 cars are getting!

-J

 

[roni024]

Thanks for keeping us updated on this, BB.

Does the memo say at which stage the fix(es) is(are) in the approval process?

 

[r11]

So the Gen 2 (EA 189), like I wuz dreaming just few days back, would also get the entire new everything from turbo exhaust outlet on down to exhaust flap - Sel Cat/DPF assy, Nox cat, DEF nozzle, in Phase II ?

And another set before 150K ? (just like with Gen III) - which will have to come with more of wty of its own.

 

[ecode]

Well since we already know that the Gen 3 fix is more than just software. I think this must be taken with a grain of salt.

Was thinking the same.... but then noticed the OP said Gen 2 and 3 phase 1 is software...

OP, I would guess that this 'document' goes into detail about the hardware included in the Gen3 fix right? Because we already know what that entails...

The question would be if the Gen2 requires the same hardware as the Gen3 (I'd assume at least, since it's a weaker AdBlue system)... And then you'd have to assume that Gen1 would require a buttload of extra equipment, like an AdBlue retrofit, which we've long assumed would be prohibitively expensive.

Add to this, the fact that SO many people are choosing buyback, the savings of doing the fix on so few cars out of the 600,000 or so affected can't possibly make fiscal sense... Unless of course, it means being able to recoup some losses by fixing the bought back cars and selling them at massive discounts...

 

[r11]

Sign me up for a massively discounted '16 TDI 6MT + life time supply of free air freshener to kill that I-sat-at-a-lot-for-2-years smell, for say 10K ?

 

[DanB36]

And then you'd have to assume that Gen1 would require a buttload of extra equipment, like an AdBlue retrofit,

You wouldn't assume that if you were at all familiar with the court documents, as they've consistently stated that Gen1 will not be getting a DEF system.

 

[srow]

BB, Is your original post referring to the solution what was proposed to the EPA as the fix? Or is it referring to the already approved-by-the-EPA solution?

If I remember correctly the EPA has something like 45 days to rule on the proposal made by VW on Jan 27 (I'm sure you're more aware of all this than me)

Cheers

 

[MBQ]

So there will be only one step if there is a approved fix for gen 1, and you don't need to wait a long time to get all the restitution money, right?

I am on the fence to sell my A3 back or keep it and get the fix. Need to know the decision, the sooner, the better.

 

[ecode]

You wouldn't assume that if you were at all familiar with the court documents, as they've consistently stated that Gen1 will not be getting a DEF system.

They also consistently stated that the TDI's were celan diesel

And yes, I am familiar with the docs... but I can't possibly imagine that a larger CAT/LNT could possibly be a long term fix... Seems WAY to simple of a fix, something that they could have very, very easily done at any time over the last decade. I guess they really could have been SO greedy, that they wouldn't have made a half million cars compliant by swapping a few parts, but I have my doubts that they are that evil.

 

[r11]

We keep forgetting that there's no "fix". There's a 90% band-aid, that brings the cars to pollute at may be 2-3x rate of by-the-book-EPA-book numbers.

There's, of course, the question of whether those EPA-mandated Nox were ever realistic to begin with

 

[S2000_guy]

...
Add to this, the fact that SO many people are choosing buyback, the savings of doing the fix on so few cars out of the 600,000 or so affected can't possibly make fiscal sense... Unless of course, it means being able to recoup some losses by fixing the bought back cars and selling them at massive discounts...

HUH?

The court documents have stated from day one that unless there's an approved fix, the only allowable disposition for the repurchased vehicles is salvage/scrap. Salvage the parts (ECU and a few emissions parts are prohibited) and crush what's left. They cannot even be exported to another, more lenient market without a fix.

With a fix, they can be sold in the US or exported, in whatever quantities VW deems economically feasible. It would seem to me that VW has a lot of money riding on the approval of a fix. They have had a lot riding on it since day one of the settlement.

Yeah, many '09 vehicles likely aren't worth fixing. But fixing many '14 or '15 models might well be more profitable than the scrapyard.