Apparent Clutch Switch Failure?

[Analogeezer]

So I just had some work done on the car by a VW dealer, I only have two months or 2,500 miles until my emissions warranty expires; after that I plan to never go back there. Ironically this is the BEST dealer service department I have encountered. I went through four other places before (long story for another day) I started using this place after I moved.

I have a saying "the best car warranty is the one you never have to use".

Anyway I go to start the car for a short local errand. It's a 2013 JSW, 123,500 miles, manual transmission.

The car will not start and the display says "Depress Clutch Pedal". But of course I am depressing the clutch pedal.

So I read a bunch of other threads about this, most of which seemed to devolve into discussions of it also involving the cruise control (the switch impacts the cruise control).

Here is the thing with my car though, the cruise control DOES NOT DISENGAGE if I put in the clutch, it never has. Many, many times I have been driving along, needed to downshift and did that and the car resumed on cruise and the cruise display stayed lit.

So I found these threads kind of curious as my car has not disengaged the cruise control by depressing the clutch since it was new.

I am going to try some of the tricks others have posted, pushing the clutch in and out a lot, trying to start the car several times, etc.

I'd love to get it started so I can get it to the shop without having the car towed.

Any advice on other things to check, ways to fix this easily, etc. are appreciated.

Thanks!


Analogeezer

 

[DrGERTol]

The Clutch Position Sensor -G476- is a Hall Effect sensor fitted to the master cylinder on the engine side of the firewall:

A30-0139

• DrGERTol
• Jul 12, 2023

Clutch position sensor.

Terminals on connector T5m:
1: Ground
2: Signal to ECM -J623- T94/63
3: n/a
4: Signal to BCM -J512- T52c/30
5: Power from Panel B Fuse 22 (powered from relay -J317-)
VAG part number 2Q0927810.
More views of the sensor fitted to the master cylinder assembly here: https://www.shopdap.com/1k0-721-388-af-vw-audi.html --g

 

[Vince Waldon]

And you'll note that it has two outputs.... one to the ECM and one to the BCM... so independent "ok to start the engine" vs "disconnect the cruise control" signals.

Sounds like the cruise control side has been busted on yours for a while, and now the start engine side has given up the ghost.

Or potentially a developing wiring issue, often at the connector itself due to vibration or corrosion.

 

[Analogeezer]

And you'll note that it has two outputs.... one to the ECM and one to the BCM... so independent "ok to start the engine" vs "disconnect the cruise control" signals.

Sounds like the cruise control side has been busted on yours for a while, and now the start engine side has given up the ghost.

Or potentially a developing wiring issue, often at the connector itself due to vibration or corrosion.

Thanks! Very helpful. Is this on the driver's side of the firewall? Further down?

On my car there is another set of connectors (3 of them) on on an assembly at the upper driver's side firewall.

Is this sensor located below that assembly? It's hard to see below that upper assembly with the battery in the way.

FWIW I used the cruise control extensively (on a 158 mile round trip) on Friday and the no-start condition started yesterday afternoon (Tuesday).

Thanks again, very informative!

Analogeezer

 

[DrGERTol]

...
Is this sensor located below that assembly? It's hard to see below that upper assembly with the battery in the way.
...

The repair manual says to remove the air filter body, starter battery, and battery tray to get at this part of the clutch master cylinder. Definitely not so easy to get at for inspection and testing. --g

 

[Analogeezer]

Well to close this out; turns out my problem is RODENT DAMAGE. I am 95% groundhogs, as we have some behind our house and I see one in the front yard now and then. I have chased them from underneath the car before but never realized they would push themselves up and chew on wires.
On top of the new EGT sensor wire and Clutch sensor wire, it also chewed on the wire in that exhaust valve thingie you hear when you shut the car off and some wires below the starter.

I hauled about six of them I trapped off far away about three years ago. No pity this time GROUNDHOGS WILL DIE.

The dealer is not BS'ing me, they sent me a raft of pictures showing the damage.

What is weird is in our old house it was next to the woods with squirrels all around yet they never messed with our cars.

Grrrrrrr

Analogeezer

 

[Analogeezer]

Well to close this out; turns out my problem is RODENT DAMAGE. I am 95% groundhogs, as we have some behind our house and I see one in the front yard now and then. I have chased them from underneath the car before but never realized they would push themselves up and chew on wires.
On top of the new EGT sensor wire and Clutch sensor wire, it also chewed on the wire in that exhaust valve thingie you hear when you shut the car off and some wires below the starter.

I hauled about six of them I trapped off far away about three years ago. No pity this time GROUNDHOGS WILL DIE.

The dealer is not BS'ing me, they sent me a raft of pictures showing the damage.

What is weird is in our old house it was next to the woods with squirrels all around yet they never messed with our cars.

Grrrrrrr

Analogeezer

Well I am verifying this will be covered but it turns out the comprehensive coverage I have on this car has only a $250 deductible. So if I get them to pay this claim that will take some sting out of it.

Analogeezer

 

[Vince Waldon]

potentially a developing wiring issue

Groundhogs put the "developing" in "developing wiring issues", evidently.

Where I live it's non-stop hungry squirrels... starting with the hood insulation.

 

[calimustang]

been reading around and finding out our cars may have this,

New wiring in cars uses soy based insulation which mice find appetizing.

Which Cars Have Soy Based Wiring: Do They Attract Rodents?

There are many cars which have soy based wiring; while this is a more eco-friendly way of cabling, it also attracts rodents to chew on them!

www.motorverso.com

 

[dieseldonato]

Gotta remember a ground hog is from the squirrel family. It's actually a ground squirrel. (We call then ground rats, and tree rats conversely)

 

[dieseldonato]

been reading around and finding out our cars may have this,

New wiring in cars uses soy based insulation which mice find appetizing.

Which Cars Have Soy Based Wiring: Do They Attract Rodents?

There are many cars which have soy based wiring; while this is a more eco-friendly way of cabling, it also attracts rodents to chew on them!

www.motorverso.com

We had issues with this in some deere equipment years ago, but there was no real proof that any rodent could tell the difference between soy based insulation and oil based insulation. Had just as many issues with equipment that we knew didn't use soy based insulation that was lined up with equipment that did. Besides that, with the trend if vehicle manufacturers to keep adding under hood aero, and guards and fancy covers its really an inviting area for rodents and other pests. Kinda like the big airfikter canisters on dozers and other heavy equipment gotta remember to pull the lid off it they sir for a while and see if a mouse made a nest in there. Just nature being nature.

 

[calimustang]

Valid pointers there, dieseldonato.

Any tips to deter them away? Moth balls?

 

[Analogeezer]

I just remembered (I have a car up there right now for auction) a guy on CarsandBids was selling a 2015 JSW (manual) and one of the service/repair documents was for "repairing rodent damage". I thought it was odd since he was in Nevada but about a week later it hit my car

 

[dieseldonato]

Valid pointers there, dieseldonato.

Any tips to deter them away? Moth balls?

I keep a open box in cab of my 73 and 79, but never had them chewing wires under the hood. Maybe a plug wires here and there but nothing major. Have more issues with birdnests being built in the fenderwell of the 73.... it doesn't get driven much. Never have anything living in the Interior though.

 

[calimustang]

I am all for helping each other out with tips, feedbacks and such. I appreciate your inputs, Dieseldonato.

 

[dieseldonato]

I agree, beside this forum I belong to 2 others I frequent, and I'm constantly learning new things I hadn't thought of.