Anyone with a S7 turbo?

[KERMA]

I just spoke to someone at Kermatdi and the guy didnt have a clue about anything I was asking. Seems he was looking up the info on the website because he then read it off to me word by word as I see it on the site. Anything outside of what he could read off to me, he was clueless. Then he claimed he was the shipping manager and was in the east coast warehouse at the moment and didnt have any information in front of him.

Sorry about the phone call that morning. The main sales team is on Pacific time, so we sometimes have someone fill in some mornings. If they don't know the answer (and who can say they have all the answers all the time to everything) then they are supposed to have someone get back to you.

And some one will ALWAYS get back to you with the answer you are seeking.

My Borg Warner S7 lasted 850 miles. Installed it, along with the DLC injectors, oil line, 3bar map that they said I needed, got in the car the next day, drove it from Tampa FL to Winston Salem NC. Got 50 mpg, cruise set on 80mph mostly flat ground boost was around 4 to 7 psi just like my old vnt 17. Made it to Dads late last night, got up this morning, started the car to crank up the air con to cool it down, after running about 10 seconds I heard a nasty clatter-chatter noise. I revved up the engine a little and instantly knew what it was. Turbo shaft had snapped. Now how in the heck can that happen with a great break-in period of an 11 hour steady 75-80 mph mostly flat ground cruise. Fresh rotella syn oil, filter, just ran perfect the entire trip. I was pleased with it. I am going to see what they have to say about warranty, but if they try to tell me like whats stated in their website that a qualified person needs to install it, well I will fight that one. I have an engineering degree in aircraft turbine engines and worked in that field many years back along with working on VW and MB turbo diesels my entire life. I think I am qualified. I'm curious as to what they are going to say to get out of replacing it. $1000 for 850 miles is harsh.

Curious: What tune are you running right now?

 

[Viesel]

I have a RC 2/3 that I got about 9 or 10 years ago.

 

[KERMA]

I have a RC 2/3 that I got about 9 or 10 years ago.

Remember seeing this in your package?

Installed it, along with the DLC injectors, oil line, 3bar map that they said I needed

 

[Viesel]

I had bought a RC5 a couple years ago thinking I would start driving it, but was not able to get it to work so just kept the old RC2/3.
I literally never drive the car. I bet I have only put 2000 miles on it in the last 5 or 6 years. 750 were to drive it to NC the other day. My friend has been begging to buy it from me for several years so I finally decided to let go of it. I have had it for over 11 years and it just sat in my air conditioned garage all this time. I bet it had not see sun or been rained on in 4 or 5 years until recently. Its all original not a scratch or ding in it. Original paint just flawless. I will miss it but its just not practical for me to have. Only has 138k miles. Not sure of he wants it now gotta get it fixed and then he will decide I guess. Now I also got to find a place to store it in NC by tomorrow. Catching a flight back. I do not want it to sit in the sun or rain. I am quite annoyed tho about this turbo issue. I have talked to a lot of tdiers hearing bad things about this turbo and they do what they can to avoid any kind of warranty, but I will send it in and see what they say. I should have left the vnt17 on it. It was leaking oil on the exhaust side but not a big deal. I just wanted it perfect before he buys it.

 

[Viesel]

Yes I got that because he said I needed it. I installed it same time. I told the sales guy what I had and he said that's what I needed instead of the boost valve I original had on it with the vnt17. So I eliminated the boost valve.

 

[Joester]

Remember seeing this in your package?

This is why I asked if he had a boost gauge, haha.

Yes I got that because he said I needed it. I installed it same time. I told the sales guy what I had and he said that's what I needed instead of the boost valve I original had on it with the vnt17. So I eliminated the boost valve.

If you install a 3bar MAP sensor when your tune is for a 2.5bar sensor, you will be overboosting by about 20%.... this means if you were tuned for saaayyy 25psi, your ECU would be requesting what it thinks is 25psi, but is really 30psi. That will kill a turbo right quick, and in the exact same manner that you've described.

So did you install the 3bar without changing tunes? It sounds like you did. Did you look at the boost gauge at all after installing the turbo? What did it read at full throttle?

 

[Abacus]

If you install a 3bar MAP sensor when your tune is for a 2.5bar sensor, you will be overboosting by about 20%.... this means if you were tuned for saaayyy 25psi, your ECU would be requesting what it thinks is 25psi, but is really 30psi. That will kill a turbo right quick, and in the exact same manner that you've described.

So did you install the 3bar without changing tunes? It sounds like you did. Did you look at the boost gauge at all after installing the turbo? What did it read at full throttle?

You can't have a 25 psi tune with a 2.5Bar sensor, the math doesn't work.

The RC2/3 is good for 18 psi, so adding your 20% is only another 3.6 psi, for a total around 22 psi, still well within the range of that turbo.

 

[Viesel]

I got to thinking this morning and went out to VAG the car to see which ecu I had in it. I guess I was confused as to what car has what. I remember that the RC 5 would not work, but it was my 03 that it didnt work in. Its actually in this car and the rc2/3 obviously in my 03 and I think my 01 has the really old rc3. How do I know what my rc5 ecu has as for the map tune? Can I see it on the VAG someplace?

 

[Viesel]

I do know that the boost with this new turbo was much slower to rise and less boost than the vnt17. Floored from complete stop, but best observed was a hard pull in 3rd gear, it would boost up to around 19psi might hit 20 then after around 3200 rpm it would then start to climb a little to around 23, 24max and that was all it would do. I was told by the sales guy at kerma it can handle more. My old vnt17 would instantly rise to 22-23 and hold there from around 2000rpm and up and that was with the old boost valve. Maybe I should have kept the boost valve on it. I did notice that both turbos created the same exact EGTs.

 

[Viesel]

I just looked back into my old emails where I bought the ECU back in 2012 I got it from Gotbearings
Here is what he said it was

Both ECU's are tuned for the following:
17/22 turbo
3 Bar MAP
PP502/764 nozzles
EGR delete
R32 MAF with TDI element (3.25")

RC4 - 24 PSI
RC5 - SOLD

 

[Viesel]

Caught a flight back up to NC yesterday to take off the Borg turbo and reinstall my old VNT17. I shipped my old vnt and tools up so they would be here when I arrived. I got to first say, the VNT17 even worn out and leaking oil out the exhaust side is a much more responsive turbo than the borg. Hands down! It spools up a lot faster, hardly any lag and just seems to boost up to 24psi at a much lower rpm. I will be sending back the Borg for warranty and when I get it back, I am not sure what I will do with it. It would be nice to actually get a refund and get my vnt17 rebuilt or even just buy a new one.
Here is a vid of the borg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbfEETKaRY0

 

[Yreka]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbfEETKaRY0

~Ouch~

 

[LNXGUY]

The category of the video is cracking me up, lol!

 

[Viesel]

sorry I didnt know it went into the comedy category. Im not much into youtube so I will try to figure out how to change it, or maybe not?

 

[LNXGUY]

sorry I didnt know it went into the comedy category. Im not much into youtube so I will try to figure out how to change it, or maybe not?

No no, leave it there, that's where it should be

 

[Dimitri16V]

My old VNT17 was just leaking a lot of oil out rear seal. If I can find a new seal maybe I can just replace that and reinstall it.

Let us know if you find that seal . Mine was leaking in the same way too

That turbo in the video had a factory defect , hence its increased lag time
Probably a defective bearing

 

[dirtride]

So it seems that 2015 has been pretty negative for the S7 turbo on an ALH.

Has/does anyone have positive experience with this turbo to date? Or have they all been tried and failed for one reason or another?

 

[KERMA]

We are waiting for the turbo to arrive to assess the issue. Upon receipt of the turbo, we'll evaluate the cause of the damage and let you know.

 

[Viesel]

I shipped it out UPS this past Friday.
Had to fly back home to Tampa today,
I didnt sell the car, buyer bought another TDI, so as soon as I get a replacement turbo I will fly back up again swap out the VNT17 and bring it back home. Drove it around this weekend and its just so much fun to drive, but the vanes get sticky with the oil leaking into the exhaust side and it will sometimes over boost or get no boost. I decided to leave the car in NC until I get the other one re-installed before hitting the road for 11 hours. Dont want to risk another break down, so for now its an in-town driver.

 

[BuzzKen]

Would love to see the egt's on this turbo at 25+psi. This thing should not be run above 22psi max and not heavily fuelled. Spikey little thing it is. I would rate it partway between a vnt-15 and a vnt-17. Just throwing in my opinion.

 

[fostertdi]

I installed the S7 turbo from Kerma back on February. I have put nearly 15k on it and drive pretty spirited. I absolutely love the thing! There is literally zero lag. I am tuned to push 23psi and have never had a Spike or surge past 25-26psi range. A good friend of mine runs a vnt-17. They are pretty close and I believe on top end the 17 might be alottle stronger but for daily and on lower end I like the S7 better! It works really well with everything else I have done! So far I have the S7 turbo, a custom tune from kerma, an eBay FMIC setup, dlc 764 nozzles, pd150 intake manifold, OMI pipe, a 3inch turbo back exhaust, and stg2 endurance clutch. With a few other goodies here and there!


Long story short id buy the turbo again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Viesel]

Well its been over 2 months now and all Kerma wanted to do is come up with different reasons why my turbo broke in half. First, it was premature bearing wear, then it was over boost, then it was contaminated oil, then, improper tuning, then too much duty cycle on the n75, then big injectors, then third party "used" tuning. Just one excuse after another. Then he wanted me to pay for half that cost of a new turbo, then he wanted to sell me all new tuning and such along with a new turbo by calling my tune a "Willy Nilly stage 5" and "this isnt how to build a reliable system with any turbo". Then went on stating that he "wasn't going to subsidize my attempts with trial and error tuning with 3rd party software". Well I wasn't "trying and erroring" anything. I simply wanted to replace my old VNT17 that's currently back on my car now with a new vnt17. The current one is old with tons of miles on it and leaks oil out the rear seal. I was originally going to sell the car to a friend and just didn't want him to have to worry about an old turbo that you have to take apart ever so often to clean the veins. The sales rep suggest the borg was a better choice for the tuning I have, and therefore I ended up buying the borg instead. Needless to say, he was wrong. The borg broke in half the day after I installed it on a 800 mile drive from Tampa FL to Winston Salem NC. I reinstalled my old worn out VNT17 and have now racked up at least 4500 miles on it in the last 2 months driving back and forth FL to NC several times and have been patiently waiting for a warranty replacement. Interesting that my "trial and error willy nilly tuning" seems to work just fine with my old VNT17, I even told Kerma to send me the VNT17 in replacement for the more expensive borg and I will be happy. He has now stopped responding to me.
I am sure he will chime in with his defensive response to this. But hey, I don't care. I am out almost $1000 and not even an exhaust gasket to show for it. Its time to start yelling.

 

[BuzzKen]

My only comment in defense somewhat of the turbo is that the n75 mapping for a 17/22 won't make the 's7' very happy. It is an extremely spikey little b*tch and the standard tuning for a 17/22 will be very aggressive to spool it up. But I would still pick a vnt17 any day of the week.

 

[Abacus]

Well its been over 2 months now and all Kerma wanted to do is come up with different reasons why my turbo broke in half. First, it was premature bearing wear, then it was over boost, then it was contaminated oil, then, improper tuning, then too much duty cycle on the n75, then big injectors, then third party "used" tuning. Just one excuse after another. Then he wanted me to pay for half that cost of a new turbo, then he wanted to sell me all new tuning and such along with a new turbo by calling my tune a "Willy Nilly stage 5" and "this isnt how to build a reliable system with any turbo". Then went on stating that he "wasn't going to subsidize my attempts with trial and error tuning with 3rd party software". Well I wasn't "trying and erroring" anything.

He has now stopped responding to me.

Shocker. I'm shocked I tell you. Completely shocked!

I have heard the S7 is spikey but based on what you provided before I don't see a problem. It sounds like the turbo maybe wasn't operating properly right out of the box: I do know that the boost with this new turbo was much slower to rise and less boost than the vnt17. Floored from complete stop, but best observed was a hard pull in 3rd gear, it would boost up to around 19psi might hit 20 then after around 3200 rpm it would then start to climb a little to around 23, 24max and that was all it would do. I was told by the sales guy at kerma it can handle more. My old vnt17 would instantly rise to 22-23 and hold there from around 2000rpm and up... I did notice that both turbos created the same exact EGTs.

But I like to let my turbo's wear in a little before hammering on them, like any installed component (clutch, head, cam & lifters, engine, etc).

I have heard Kerma's blame game before on other items, and in their defense it's a lot of money to lose, but you're out a lot of money to have it last one day. Did Kerma give you a definitive reason as to the failure, or just shotgun the excuse and hope something stuck, like a dealership.

Good luck, watching this with interest.

 

[Viesel]

or just shotgun the excuse and hope something stuck, like a dealership.

Exactly!

 

[mountain lion]

If you purchased with a credit card, does your card have purchase protection? Many CC's will take care of you for exact reasons like this. I've called Kerma a couple of times in the recent past looking for options and they come off worse than used car salesmen. Up-selling crap you don't need and providing flawed advice. No thanks.

 

[maxmoo]

....just to add some balance to this thread....I have never had an issue with Kerma and have always found them excellent to deal with.
.....also one of our ALH's came with an S7, 1019 inj's and a Kerma 150 tune when we bought it used..... it performs flawlessly after 60,000km's of spirited driving.....so far I'm pleasantly surprised.

I too am a small business operator and know how an unfortunate incident can be blown out of proportion with devastating consequences for a business's reputation.....

....Who knows what really caused that turbo to actualy fail....
Put yourself in Kerma's shoes they probably make less than $100 profit from an $1100 turbo so if they have to refund the full amount it would take ten more turbo sales just to break even.

 

[Abacus]

Very true, but if the turbo failed due to no part on the buyer, then they should not be out the money. Neither should Kerma, who should also get a warranty replacement. I would love to hear the definitive autopsy on the turbo, from a disinterested third party.

I had new water pumps fail twice in a row and neither time was the labor covered, just the $35 pump. After the second one I decided to source one elsewhere and put it in myself. That one is still going strong. It was no fault of the trusted mechanic installing it, which is why his labor wasn't covered, but I don't make the kind of money I can just toss $400 out the window due to failed parts. And no, the trusted mechanic did not give me any deals despite the early failures since it wasn't his fault. It is the sole reason I now do all my own work.

 

[jptbay]

Aside from the warranty issue, if I installed a different make and brand of turbo on my car, I would expect to have the tune dialed in again for boost control.

I too have had only great service from Kerma over the years, but if you asked for a VNT17 and they said the S7 would be a bolt on and run replacement, I think that's a problem.

 

[Viesel]

Still can not get any response from Kerma. He seems to be avoiding all my emails and messages.