Anyone potential Passat buyers discouraged by Dieselgeddon?

[czeetah]

Just curious if there's anyone here who was researching TDI's and decided against VW (or TDI) due to Dieselgeddon?

Only looking for comments from potential buyers perspective on how this has affected your decisions and thoughts.

Please keep all general discussion of incident in the master thread here - http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448053

 

[pparks1]

Just curious if there's anyone here who was researching TDI's and decided against VW (or TDI) due to Dieselgeddon?

I have absolutely no idea what this is?

 

[VeeDubTDI]

This is really just drumming up more FUD, especially since nobody can purchase them right now due to the stop sale order on all TDIs in the US and Canada.

pparks1: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=448053

 

[pparks1]

yeah, I was just out reading that thread. I must have been living under a rock, I didn't hear anything about this prior to just now.

 

[czeetah]

Not trying to make another discussion thread on the topic in general like the master thread -- I'm really interested if anyone is here that was in buying stage and has backed out.

That is made a decision where even if they were for sale, they've made a decision to NOT get one regardless.

Curious from an affect-on-vw angle. If there are potential customers here, how has this affected you purchase thoughts.

If you are out there, penny for your thoughts. Else simply ignore

 

[flamingolegs]

I am more worried about resale or trade in value!

 

[Bobmws]

I am more worried about resale or trade in value!

Me too, but KBB value hasn't changed yet.

 

[bryce850]

Yea resale is what's got me worried.

 

[alphalfa]

I backed away from the TDI, more so due to the randomly imploding hpfp issue that emissions. all this will do is screw up the gas mileage. on the plus side, i read that the VW board is going to replace the current ceo with the head of porsche group. so maybe this issue will get fixed.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

I am more worried about resale or trade in value!

Yea resale is what's got me worried.

An interesting theory here: http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/forget-the-stock-market-buy-a-used-volkswagen-diesel-r-1732181250

 

[coolbean1000]

This reply strays a bit from the OP's question, but I have a 2014 Passatt TDI, I do a LOT of highway driving and average 52mpg across all driving, not just the highway. Right now my biggest concern is if I show up at the dealer for the warranty visit will my economy go down due to the flashing of the chip.

(I bet the chip guys are going to have a boon with this one.)

There will be a re-org of VW management. Blame will be placed. Fines will be paid, and rightfully so. After all the EPA is taxpayer funded and is _supposed_ to serve the greater good. So yeah, VW messed with the bull and is about to get the horns. But in the end, I will still drive a car that gets superior milage and performance over a gasser car. When it's time to retire this current passat, i hope a hybrid diesel will take its place. Until then, buy on the dip.

 

[50pascals]

I may be in the minority, but I am 100% not worried about resale value. I drive so much that it will have 300k and be a $3000 to $5000 car when I am done with it.

In a year most sheeple won't even know there was a recall. In fact, I'm willing to bet most people right now have no idea. Do you know how many Chevy owners I meet that don't know anything about their recalls?

 

[ChadS99SVT]

An interesting theory here: http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/forget-the-stock-market-buy-a-used-volkswagen-diesel-r-1732181250

Interesting indeed. I'm not sure I buy it.

Maybe if this gets drug out a long ways but i not expecting that. Nor do I think I'm sitting on a gold mine. I'm hoping VW has to shell out some coin to us owners though.

All that being said it seems right now to be bad timing for me as I am trying to unload the car but now feel like I need to sit and wait for this all to play out.

Does this stop sale affect used Passat tdi's at dealers? Say if I wanted to trade in would a dealer not accept because it can't sell? Or is it just new ones?

 

[showdown 42]

I will say that the ONLY reason I bgt a JSW and a TREG was the diesel engine. There are many other gassers that are better than VW's,so if things change with the VW diesel availability so long and good luck. I hope we will be get these great in the future without losing all the performance.

 

[nakkers]

It's really the only affordable diesel in the market. The rest are premium brands.

So, this is disappointing.

I'm running 65,000 kilometres a year and lime the range of the TDI.

Previous petro vehicles needed a refil in the 600 range. Sometimes less depending on city driving.

I'm consistently getting 850 plus.

I don't want to pollute the environment to achieve decent range. But, I'm on the road a lot for work and need it.

Just crossing my fingers and seeing what happens. I still have another 60k to go before looking at a replacement vehicle.

 

[nakkers]

It's really the only affordable diesel in the market. The rest are premium brands.

So, this is disappointing.

I'm running 65,000 kilometres a year and lime the range of the TDI.

Previous petro vehicles needed a refil in the 600 range. Sometimes less depending on city driving.

I'm consistently getting 850 plus.

I don't want to pollute the environment to achieve decent range. But, I'm on the road a lot for work and need it.

Just crossing my fingers and seeing what happens. I still have another 60k to go before looking at a replacement vehicle.

My apologies as this topic is for Passat. Although a Passat is/was on my radar when my company car becomes due for replacement.

 

[Nuttendiesel]

I WAS going to trade in for a 2016 but now we have to wait to see if and when there will be any?

 

[DonL]

I never have bought a vehicle with trade in or resale value being a factor.

I also wonder if they can make you get it fixed if you don't live in an area that requires testing? It starts with 2009, so I am not affected.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Interesting indeed. I'm not sure I buy it.
Maybe if this gets drug out a long ways but i not expecting that. Nor do I think I'm sitting on a gold mine. I'm hoping VW has to shell out some coin to us owners though.
All that being said it seems right now to be bad timing for me as I am trying to unload the car but now feel like I need to sit and wait for this all to play out.
Does this stop sale affect used Passat tdi's at dealers? Say if I wanted to trade in would a dealer not accept because it can't sell? Or is it just new ones?

The EPA is saying that it could take up to a year for all of this to shake out.

Is EPA officially requiring Volkswagen to issue a recall now?

No. EPA expects to compel VW to issue a recall in the future to reduce the emissions impacts of these vehicles. Owners will be notified of that recall once Volkswagen and Audi have developed a remedial plan and EPA has approved the plan. Manufacturers are given a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs, including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts. Depending on the complexity of the repair and the lead time needed to obtain the necessary components, it could take up to one year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan, and issue recall notices.

Will I be required to have my vehicle repaired once it is recalled?

That depends. Some states require proof that emissions recalls have been performed prior to issuing the vehicle registration. Even in states that do not have this requirement, it is important to have emissions recalls performed because without the repairs, your vehicle may be emitting harmful pollutants in excess of the federal emission standards. You are not responsible for repair costs related to an emissions recall.

http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm#affected

 

[atc98002]

Remember one thing, also. For a car with SCR (Passat and all 2015 models) all they likely have to do is increase the amount of AdBlue injected. They won't lose any performance or economy. Just a simple re-flash. That's probably all the kill switch does on these is to reduce the amount injected.

For the others, it will likely have some sort of impact. However, since the cars all pass EPA/CARB requirements with the existing controls fully functional, all it should take is a re-flash to remove the kill switch.

I've read in several other postings elsewhere that only the EA189 engine is affected. Doesn't that leave the Passat completely out of the picture, as well as all 2015 models? Exactly which engine is the EA189? I know the 2015 models have the EA288.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

The 2012-2014 Passat is still EA189 architecture. EA288s haven't been tested yet, but will be required to prove themselves.

 

[atc98002]

The 2012-2014 Passat is still EA189 architecture. EA288s haven't been tested yet, but will be required to prove themselves.

Understood, thanks!

 

[ChadS99SVT]

Remember one thing, also. For a car with SCR (Passat and all 2015 models) all they likely have to do is increase the amount of AdBlue injected. They won't lose any performance or economy. Just a simple re-flash. That's probably all the kill switch does on these is to reduce the amount injected.

For the others, it will likely have some sort of impact. However, since the cars all pass EPA/CARB requirements with the existing controls fully functional, all it should take is a re-flash to remove the kill switch.

I've read in several other postings elsewhere that only the EA189 engine is affected. Doesn't that leave the Passat completely out of the picture, as well as all 2015 models? Exactly which engine is the EA189? I know the 2015 models have the EA288.

I'm absolutely not an expert here but to think that it only would require a little more adblue seems crazy. Why would VW sacrifice so much for a few extra gallons of adblue that get's passed onto the customer anyway? Adblue is CHEAP.

There has to be more to it than that...

 

[ChadS99SVT]

Only 10 Private Party 2012-14 Passat TDI's for sale within 500 miles of me. (on Autotrader)

They did say on the news tonight that dealers are not supposed to be selling even used ones. somehow I doubt that will stop most non VW dealers.

but maybe I will get lucky and someone will buy it for top dollar

The question then becomes do I hold out for something greater from VW? Will I lose that benefit if I no longer own the car.

This seems somewhat unprecedented. So I'm not really sure what to think

 

[MyAvocation]

There has to be more to it than that...

Agreed. Fuel mixture and EGR also come to mind. The good news is the EPA-friendly mapping is already baked-in. A simple re-flash needed to overwrite unfriendly code.

As for TDI value fluctuations, there's some truth to the article, but I wouldn't recommend adding TDIs to an investment portfolio. Auto values are based on what someone's willing to pay... no different than covertibles in summer and 4x4 in winter. I'm hopeful new TDI sales will slump from all the bad press, allowing us to eventually buy 2016s at close-out prices.

So to answer OP's question, I am not at all swayed. It's a valid question, though. We know VW did this for fuel economy improvement, so there will be diminished value to EPA-friendly TDI's. What is unknown is how much, with the assumption being comparable to published EPA ratings.

 

[atc98002]

I'm absolutely not an expert here but to think that it only would require a little more adblue seems crazy. Why would VW sacrifice so much for a few extra gallons of adblue that get's passed onto the customer anyway? Adblue is CHEAP.

There has to be more to it than that...

Oh, I agree. It may only take more AdBlue for the SCR engines to pass, but it might have a (bad) effect on other components, such as the DPF. Although I believe AdBlue is injected into the exhaust after the DPF. I'm sure there's a change to the fuel injection curve as well. But the point is, the engines did pass EPA/CARB with everything working. That means VW just has to enable all emissions parts at all times, and they are emissions legal again.

But there has to be a reason besides higher AdBlue consumption. And for the non-SCR engines, that reason is more than likely economy, power and driveability.

 

[kydsid]

Agreed. Fuel mixture and EGR also come to mind. The good news is the EPA-friendly mapping is already baked-in. A simple re-flash needed to overwrite unfriendly code.

As for TDI value fluctuations, there's some truth to the article, but I wouldn't recommend adding TDIs to an investment portfolio. Auto values are based on what someone's willing to pay... no different than covertibles in summer and 4x4 in winter. I'm hopeful new TDI sales will slump from all the bad press, allowing us to eventually buy 2016s at close-out prices.

So to answer OP's question, I am not at all swayed. It's a valid question, though. We know VW did this for fuel economy improvement, so there will be diminished value to EPA-friendly TDI's. What is unknown is how much, with the assumption being comparable to published EPA ratings.

No we know they might have done this for mileage reasons and also possibly for power/torque and/ or powertrain longevity.

Vw is never going to tell is why so we will never know what any fix if any will do to our cars.

Imo passats are the only cars that might see a fix as we already have scr. But as no other manufacturer was able to certify a 4 cyl diesel with our power rating and mileage both will take a hit. Id bet on increaed cylinder temp and shorter powertrain life also.

 

[scottysize]

Well, since you can't buy a VW TDI anymore, I guess it doesn't matter if anyone's now discouraged or not.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You can still buy a Touareg TDI.

 

[BPofMD]

..... but who is going to after all the publicity?