Anyone install new exhaust on your TDI

Jayg

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Oct 23, 2012
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Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
Remember all, this is the same generation doing this that has their pants hanging down around their knees prison and gangster style. So when it comes to what is cool or neat, one just need look at the whole package.
Get off my lawn!
 

JdC Machine

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Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Location
Cypress, CA
TDI
'13 Passat TDI SEL
The AFE kit says it's a cat-back system. Why does it almost look like a full system? I recall seeing some but does anybody have an illustration or photo of the factory exhaust system, DPF, cats, etc.?
 

rustycat

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Dec 27, 2012
Location
seattle
TDI
2015 passat sel
I can easily understand swapping out a stock exhaust in favor of one that has a better tone. Afterall, VW has to meet noise restrictions at the lowest common demoninator.
But, I seriously doubt that VW decided to put a restrictive system on and compromise efficiency and economy. And, I'd have to see lap times before and after to believe in the benefits of a change out in performance.
And, yes, today's car have scant avenues for expressing individuality besides wheels, exhaust and bags.
 

Jayg

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Joined
Oct 23, 2012
Location
Anchorage, AK
TDI
'12 Jetta 6MT-VW bought back as a lemon
The AFE kit says it's a cat-back system. Why does it almost look like a full system? I recall seeing some but does anybody have an illustration or photo of the factory exhaust system, DPF, cats, etc.?
From Banks but you get the idea.


 

DruzTdiCup

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TDI
2013 Golf TDI DSG Tech 2010 Candy White Sportwagen TDI DSG pano
I put one on my Tdi Cup car and it went from DPF and back to the bumper in two pieces.
 

VWJayhawk

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TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
The AFE kit says it's a cat-back system. Why does it almost look like a full system? I recall seeing some but does anybody have an illustration or photo of the factory exhaust system, DPF, cats, etc.?
There is a picture of a tdi passat on this page, about 1/2-3/4 way down, can get a pretty good idea, especially if you look at the bends in it.
 

VeeDubTDI

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And, I'd have to see lap times before and after to believe in the benefits of a change out in performance.
You will see ZERO performance increase from a cat-back exhaust. Noise levels will probably remain the same, as well, due to the emissions components muffling most of the engine sound... the rear muffler actually does very little on the commonrail cars.
 

rustycat

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Dec 27, 2012
Location
seattle
TDI
2015 passat sel
You will see ZERO performance increase from a cat-back exhaust. Noise levels will probably remain the same, as well, due to the emissions components muffling most of the engine sound... the rear muffler actually does very little on the commonrail cars.
Well, the answer becomes obvious: take a page out of BMW's M5 playbook and activate the subwoofer to provide growl and driver involvement to simulate a nice growl in the exhaust note.
 

mrchill

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I have a buddy with a 2012 NMS and a Lou's custom exhaust. Its not too noticeable at idle. Driving not too much either...but you can tell. Unless you are in another car. Then its obvious. We drove down to Ocean city(a group of us) and I kept saying to myself...who's car sounds like that?...when we all pulled off to pass...I realized it was him. But he couldnt tell...as he was in the car but I was in mine.
 

RonJitsu

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Central NJ
TDI
2005 Mercedes Benz E320 CDI, 1/2 of a 1985 Jetta 1.6 Diesel
There isn't, I can confirm that.


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Hey Loki: any results or opinions to post up (assuming your install is complete)? I've been looking at the AFE and other options...
 

LokiWolf

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Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Location
Richmond, VA
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL
Not installed yet, I have just unboxxed it, so I can confirm that is what it looks like. A few others on some of the other forums have installed it.

Winter has been hanging around too long and I haven't had a chance to install. Trust me, it's killing me seeing it in the box.


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VeeDubTDI

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Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Not installed yet, I have just unboxxed it, so I can confirm that is what it looks like. A few others on some of the other forums have installed it.

Winter has been hanging around too long and I haven't had a chance to install. Trust me, it's killing me seeing it in the box.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I hope you can make it up to Impex. I want to check that thing out. :cool:
 

Jarrod B

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Oct 30, 2011
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2014 Passat TDI
glad someone thinks like me lol.

I am still debating on spending 2k worth of mods to gain the sad 30 something hp gain or not. But being in the diesel trucks performance side for many years its kinda of a habit to do to a diesel.


mock up of my 5" mbrp tip. If it was stuck in more I would be happy and left it.


 

Jarrod B

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Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2014 Passat TDI
For 2K, what is going to give you a 30hp gain other than a tune?
Just going by for what I'm used to. Spending 2k on a powerstroke gave me more than 100hp with exhaust lol

For my '13 tdi, I found a full exhaust for $800, $500 dsg update, and $500 engine tune for like a stg2 from Malone.

I'm hoping I can get one of my powerstroke tuners to start writing tunes for tdi engines tho and I'll mod it if he can.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Show me data from a tune that gives a legitimate 30 HP gain. I've yet to see any.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
Don't know. Haven't seen a before and after dyno that showed reliable numbers.
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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So here's my dilemma. This dyno (I've seen it before) shows the stock TDI making 153 HP. Either it's corrected or an optimistic dyno. Best it should be is 140 HP to show a good baseline. It's high by 9%. If that's correct, than it stands to reason that the 170 HP figure is also high by 9%, which makes it about 155 HP. So that's a 15 HP gain, not 27. Torque is about 4.5% off, so corrected the tuned torque would be about 285.

Even if you don't correct the high numbers, 153 to 170 is 17 HP, not 27.

This came to my attention at the last NEDD where we had two common rail cars run, one with a Stage 1 tune, one with Stage 2. They ran before I arrived so I don't recall who tuned them. However, the numbers were pretty low, somthing like a 10 HP increase for Stage 1 and 15 or so for Stage 2. We had a stock CR car there that established a baseline.
 
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JdC Machine

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Location
Cypress, CA
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'13 Passat TDI SEL
Things to know would be if the tuned cars were identical to the baseline vehicle as far as transmission and remaining driveline components go, i.e. same size wheels and tires, etc. and if they were back-to-back runs with the same correction factors and weather conditions. Another question is, does the dyno operator really know what he's doing?

There's no way a stock TDI can make 153HP at the wheels if it's rated at 140HP at the flyhweel (brake HP). There is friction loss in the drivetrain.

There's no way ANY engine can produce more HP at the wheels over it's brake HP.
 

WutGas?

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Feb 28, 2012
Location
Oklahoma City
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The Last Real Jetta Sedan
So here's my dilemma. This dyno (I've seen it before) shows the stock TDI making 153 HP. Either it's corrected or an optimistic dyno. Best it should be is 140 HP to show a good baseline. It's high by 9%. If that's correct, than it stands to reason that the 170 HP figure is also high by 9%, which makes it about 155 HP. So that's a 15 HP gain, not 27. Torque is about 4.5% off, so corrected the tuned torque would be about 285.

Even if you don't correct the high numbers, 153 to 170 is 17 HP, not 27.

This came to my attention at the last NEDD where we had two common rail cars run, one with a Stage 1 tune, one with Stage 2. They ran before I arrived so I don't recall who tuned them. However, the numbers were pretty low, somthing like a 10 HP increase for Stage 1 and 15 or so for Stage 2. We had a stock CR car there that established a baseline.
Get your logic out if here. Logic has no place in CAI/exhaust threads.
 

VWJayhawk

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Joined
Jan 21, 2013
Location
Olathe, KS
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
So here's my dilemma. This dyno (I've seen it before) shows the stock TDI making 153 HP. Either it's corrected or an optimistic dyno. Best it should be is 140 HP to show a good baseline. It's high by 9%. If that's correct, than it stands to reason that the 170 HP figure is also high by 9%, which makes it about 155 HP. So that's a 15 HP gain, not 27. Torque is about 4.5% off, so corrected the tuned torque would be about 285.

Even if you don't correct the high numbers, 153 to 170 is 17 HP, not 27.

This came to my attention at the last NEDD where we had two common rail cars run, one with a Stage 1 tune, one with Stage 2. They ran before I arrived so I don't recall who tuned them. However, the numbers were pretty low, somthing like a 10 HP increase for Stage 1 and 15 or so for Stage 2. We had a stock CR car there that established a baseline.
You have to look at the change within the power curve...it doesnt matter what the peak numbers are, just the change (differences don't change based on the dyno). http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tdi_140hp.html EDIT - Does not past link referencing, above dyno graph click the 3rd tab for gains.

Things to know would be if the tuned cars were identical to the baseline vehicle as far as transmission and remaining driveline components go, i.e. same size wheels and tires, etc. and if they were back-to-back runs with the same correction factors and weather conditions. Another question is, does the dyno operator really know what he's doing?

There's no way a stock TDI can make 153HP at the wheels if it's rated at 140HP at the flyhweel (brake HP). There is friction loss in the drivetrain.

There's no way ANY engine can produce more HP at the wheels over it's brake HP.

Obviously no car can produce more at the wheels than at the crank. I think it is the case of an optimistic dyno or less actual drive train loss than corrected for, and VW/VAG always underratting their engines. FYI, the APR dynos (as stated) are corrected for crank numbers. I can't remember what their correction factor is off the top of my head.

The car on the dyno is the same one before/after the tune. APR uses several runs and averages them out vs just giving the lowest stock and highest tuned numbers/graphs.

I'm not arguing anyone is wrong here, just that there are viable options out there. I'm not affiliated with APR, just been really happy with their work in the past and know they have more experience with tuning VAG vehicles than anyone out there.

Two thoughts:
1) You can't trust peak numbers/single number gains (e.g. "25hp gain, 170hp peak, etc) to tell you anything- there is an obsession about peak numbers in this country...the power curve is what is most important.
2) If you are going to pay for a tune from a company, you need to see the difference/gain dynos...it drives me nuts that tuner just tell you the gains, don't show you the power curve or graphs. They have the dynos if they know the gains, so why not just show them?
 
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JdC Machine

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Location
Cypress, CA
TDI
'13 Passat TDI SEL
Obviously no car can produce more at the wheels than at the crank. I think it is the case of an optimistic dyno or less actual drive train loss than corrected for, and VW/VAG always underratting their engines. FYI, the APR dynos (as stated) are corrected for crank numbers. I can't remember what their correction factor is off the top of my head.

The car on the dyno is the same one before/after the tune. APR uses several runs and averages them out vs just giving the lowest stock and highest tuned numbers/graphs.

I'm not arguing anyone is wrong here, just that there are viable options out there. I'm not affiliated with APR, just been really happy with their work in the past and know they have more experience with tuning VAG vehicles than anyone out there.

Two thoughts:
1) You can't trust peak numbers/single number gains (e.g. "25hp gain, 170hp peak, etc) to tell you anything- there is an obsession about peak numbers in this country...the power curve is what is most important.
2) If you are going to pay for a tune from a company, you need to see the difference/gain dynos...it drives me nuts that tuner just tell you the gains, don't show you the power curve or graphs. They have the dynos if they know the gains, so why not just show them?
My response wasn't a jab at you, APR or anyone. Just my thoughts and curiosities from Indigo's story of the dyno event he attended.
 

VWJayhawk

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Olathe, KS
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium
My response wasn't a jab at you, APR or anyone. Just my thoughts and curiosities from Indigo's story of the dyno event he attended.
I hear you, wasn't hitting back at you...sorry! I use "you" to mean people in general a lot. Thanks for the input!
 

IndigoBlueWagon

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Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
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'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
You have to look at the change within the power curve...it doesnt matter what the peak numbers are, just the change (differences don't change based on the dyno). http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_upgrade_20tdi_140hp.html EDIT - Does not past link referencing, above dyno graph click the 3rd tab for gains.
What numbers do you think they're using for gains over stock? Seems to me it's the tuned numbers on the first tab, and they're comparing them to 140 stock HP, where they show a stock car on the same dyno made 153, not 140. So it's no more accurate than the chart on the first tab.

And most tuners will tell you it's the space under the curve that matters. The tuned HP curve pretty much reflects the stock curve, but at a higher number. But the torque curve peaks at significantly higher RPM (2700 versus 2400 approx), which will make the car feel less responsive, not more.

For comparison, here's a stock dyno of my '12 Golf on a dyno dynamics dyno.


I guess it doesn't look that much different, although the torque peak seems lower. Some of it is just how the scale on the chart is set. Note the max HP, which the dyno operators thought was pretty impressive for a car rated at 140 HP at the crank. These are uncorrected #s except for atmosphere.
 
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