Anyone Chipped a 2012 Passat TDI?

[BIGJOHNO]

Oh, why can't we all get along .

In point of fact, if you really want to preserve the environment, you will walk everywhere you go, but since the technology is there, why not use it?

I walk most days, but when I do go out, it is usually in a MAXXPRO or RG-33L. Not the best for mpg or the environment, but it gives me what I need when I need it .

John

 

[wofman]

You must be a genius, how were you able, with more boost and more pressure and more fuel, to overcome Boyles Law and the production of more NOX? If you can burn more fuel, in the same container volume, in the same amount of time, with more oxygen and nitrogen available, how is it possible to generate less pollutants while accelerating faster? You can defy the laws of Physics? I'm sorry, even Einstein was unable to do that.

1) Depends on other factors - generate similar levels with modest tune is my guess, and sometimes with better mileage
2) You assume cats/emissions systems canNOT scrub (IF there were more NOx generated, which YOU don't know)

Hey, Niner, I'm actually on your side generally - been getting on kids removing their cats for a very long time. Responsible modding vs no modding is difference. (I understood you meant ignition timing before, not fuel timing)

 

[tdiatlast]

Finally, some sane posts. We're all hypocrites at some level. Anyone who denies that is...well...a hypocrite.

Chris@revotech, thanks for the clarification. I love my 09 tune, throttle response, MPG. I've not huffed the tailpipe yet, but I believe the mandated polloution control devices are up to the task. I wouldn't have gone this route if I felt otherwise.

 

[TomB]

Why do folks assume that a chipped car won't meet emissions regulations? Must stock cars are well within required emissions levels so they'll continue to be in compliance if neglected or if some component isn't 100% effective. I'd be surprised if a mildly tuned Common Rail wasn't still in compliance assuming, of course, that the tuner didn't disable emissions-related equipment or the owner didn't remove hardware.

This reminds me of concerns about tuning shortening engine life. Perhaps, but owners unwittingly do things all the time that shortens engine life, like not replacing fluids or filters on schedule. My belief is if you're careful to maintain your TDI well then you can tune it and meet emissions standards and enjoy long engine life.

This might be the case, but I would like to see them pass the EPA testing for all the levels.

Once they run through the same certification and approval process as VW with the EPA and spend all that money to do it, then I will consider it good to go change to my vehicle.

Until then it is all just pure speculation.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Does your state have emissions testing? If your car passes that test, would you find that acceptable verification that the tuned car would pass? If your state doesn't have emissions testing for diesels, perhaps it should. If it doesn't I'd bet there are a lot of stock cars there that wouldn't pass.

If tuners went to the effort and expense to get certification, I'm sure their tunes would be priced out of the market.

 

[chris@revotechnik]

This might be the case, but I would like to see them pass the EPA testing for all the levels.

Once they run through the same certification and approval process as VW with the EPA and spend all that money to do it, then I will consider it good to go change to my vehicle.

Until then it is all just pure speculation.

99% of your driving is at idle and part "throttle", those areas of the tune are unaffected by the performance tunes. Even at higher "throttle" positions you are still operating the vehicle 100% within its factory parameters. The EPA focuses much more on low load constant emissions testing then high load full "throttle testing" because it is less common. While the mpg testing is not the same as the rest of the emissions testing just looking at the procedures used to determine a cars rating will give you an idea. The max acceleration used in the current tests is a rate of about 3.5 mph per second.. Let off the brake on a TC based auto and it can accelerate that fast on level ground.

We have 10s of thousands of customers who go through annual emissions inspections both OBDII and sniffer that pass no problem including in states like California and NY with very strict tests.

While I am not suggesting that someone remove their cats in anyway and I personally run them even on my 600+hp A3 2.0t I have seen cars pass sniffer tests with no cats installed at all and aftermarket tunes.

There are tuners who have paid to have their hardware and software C.A.R.B exempt in the past and got through with flying colors and didn't have to do anything special. I'm confident ours would get right through it no problem however the market in one specific state does not warrant that investment, nor does it change the fact that it still not legal for on road use.

 

[TomB]

99% of your driving is at idle and part "throttle", those areas of the tune are unaffected by the performance tunes. Even at higher "throttle" positions you are still operating the vehicle 100% within its factory parameters. The EPA focuses much more on low load constant emissions testing then high load full "throttle testing" because it is less common. While the mpg testing is not the same as the rest of the emissions testing just looking at the procedures used to determine a cars rating will give you an idea. The max acceleration used in the current tests is a rate of about 3.5 mph per second.. Let off the brake on a TC based auto and it can accelerate that fast on level ground.

We have 10s of thousands of customers who go through annual emissions inspections both OBDII and sniffer that pass no problem including in states like California and NY with very strict tests.

While I am not suggesting that someone remove their cats in anyway and I personally run them even on my 600+hp A3 2.0t I have seen cars pass sniffer tests with no cats installed at all and aftermarket tunes.

There are tuners who have paid to have their hardware and software C.A.R.B exempt in the past and got through with flying colors and didn't have to do anything special. I'm confident ours would get right through it no problem however the market in one specific state does not warrant that investment, nor does it change the fact that it still not legal for on road use.

Vehicle inspections are a joke to help the auto service industry make income and catch those who modified the car or have failed components.

I am talking about the total emissions per mile type qualification. Unless you are capturing all the exhaust stream and analyzing it for it entire composition, you do not know what you are producing, nor can you claim to match VWs specs.

Again, certification is NOT state inspections which are again a JOKE for the real emissions composition detection. Infared sensors are no where as accurate as mass spectrometers and other equipment.

 

[tdiatlast]

No. VA used to do tailpipe testing at idle, and at 2k rpm. My "Intended Accleration" chipped, 280hp 1993 S-4, continued to pass, by a VERY wide margin (never above 30% of allowed pollutants) until I sold it at 160 k miles. MPG went from 14-19 to 16-23. Only used the HP occasionally...really, officer...

 

[chris@revotechnik]

Vehicle inspections are a joke to help the auto service industry make income and catch those who modified the car or have failed components.

I am talking about the total emissions per mile type qualification. Unless you are capturing all the exhaust stream and analyzing it for it entire composition, you do not know what you are producing, nor can you claim to match VWs specs.

Again, certification is NOT state inspections which are again a JOKE for the real emissions composition detection. Infared sensors are no where as accurate as mass spectrometers and other equipment.

I never claimed we match VWs specs, however..

For more than 99% of the driving conditions a car with software is running off 100% identical to stock maps. For that extra 1% not even the EPA concerns themselves with as it is so minimal and in some cases the aftermarket applications are running cleaner and more efficient. Just to use a petrol vehicle as an example but a stock 2.0t "FSI" runs ~10:1 AF at wide open throttle, where a tuned vehicle will run ~12:1. The mixture doesn't even richen up until you are well into boost so under normal accelerating and passing the car doesn't even go into an enrichment mode it continues to run stoic.


Also modern engine management systems are doing constant tests. The 2.0 CR in some US applications have been updated 10+ times many of which were to desensitize the emissions equipment because it was beyond what the requirement was but they always error that way and put out updates later to make them less sensitive as they see how the cars work. There are recalls for some applications that are 10 years old because the systems are throwing codes and failing readiness tests saying that the cats are not working but they are still within required spec and Audi/VW has to go back and rewrite the software to be less sensitive. Our cars and the cars of any tuner I know of are not having problems passing the onboard emissions tests or those of the state. Whether you like it or not those are the standards we have to test with and are passing with flying colors.

There are emissions tests posted all over with similar results that Tdiatlast has seen with his s4 on tuned vehicles actually passing with LOWER emissions then factory vehicles.


You asked for proof and were given it, sorry that suddenly what you asked for is not good enough, not my problem you refuse to listen.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Vehicle inspections are a joke to help the auto service industry make income and catch those who modified the car or have failed components.

So on one hand you say that state inspections are not adequate proof that a tuned car can meet emissions, and if they can meet state emissions tests it doesn't mean much. But on the other hand you say they're out to get people with modified cars. Which is it? Maybe you think it's both. A conspiracy, perhaps?

Vehicle inspections, while not what they could be, help a lot. Just drive in a snowstorm in a state (Michigan, for example) that doesn't have them. You'll find cars sliding into each other and onto the median because no one checks to see that tires are bald. And more breakdowns. It's remarkable how people will neglect their cars if allowed.

Which is why, in part, why manufacturers don't tune cars to provide max output and still stay within emissions limits. They know that owners may not maintain their cars. High performance expensive cars like a BMW M3 or Porsche 911 might push the envelope more because they know owners may take better care.

 

[eprater1]

little more food for thought.....heres an example.

stock vehicle with all stock tune, exhaust, ect gets 22 mpg and produces x amount of polutants per gallon of fuel consumed . now that same vehicle gets a tune and free flowing muffler but retains cats. said vehicle now jumps to 28mpg and x amount of polutants. how much would the amount of polutants have to had increased to off set the reduced amount of fuel consumed?? im willing to bet the tuned vehicle ends up producing less polutants over 100k miles due to the overall reduction in fuel burned....could be wrong though.

and for the record i think global warming is a crock of ****, hell last 7-8 years of predictions have all been wrong. earth has gone through numerous ice ages and periods of warming and we do not have enough evidence to prove that we know jack **** about what is going on. that does not mean i dont believe in air quality or air polution that is different.

 

[MyAvocation]

You can borrow my flame suit, as the man made global warming kooks defend their new religion. They need to read the book of Revelations... will their baseless claims are moot.

 

[TomB]

So on one hand you say that state inspections are not adequate proof that a tuned car can meet emissions, and if they can meet state emissions tests it doesn't mean much. But on the other hand you say they're out to get people with modified cars. Which is it? Maybe you think it's both. A conspiracy, perhaps?

Drop the personal attack crap with hot button buzzwords like conspiracy.

Ummm, we are talking about EMISSIONS inspections. For many states we do NOT have the vehicle inspection and that was not even anywhere in this discussion.

I had put a rebuilt engine in a car included all the same components and I chose to use the ELECTRONIC ignition system instead of the old points and condenser/coil system.

They FAILED it because it was MODIFIED, even though emissions were 1/3 with the standard ignition (I compared actual emissions numbers after re-inspection), so that is what I meant by inspection. Visual inspection of the components being there, like the catalytic converter not having been piped out.

 

[TomB]

and for the record i think global warming is a crock of ****, hell last 7-8 years of predictions have all been wrong. earth has gone through numerous ice ages and periods of warming and we do not have enough evidence to prove that we know jack **** about what is going on. that does not mean i dont believe in air quality or air polution that is different.

LOL! You just had to go there, huh? By the way what about all those tornadoes in the middle of winter, that is normal, huh? That happens all the time, right? One cannot ignore these major changes.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

A tuned car shows no different in visual inspection. And may show no different when plugged in. So it won't fail for the reasons you mention.

 

[gergg]

TomB, TomB, TomB.......Oh boy!

 

[eprater1]

LOL! You just had to go there, huh? By the way what about all those tornadoes in the middle of winter, that is normal, huh? That happens all the time, right? One cannot ignore these major changes.

http://notrickszone.com/2011/01/22/signs-of-strengthening-global-cooling/

earth has consistently show periods of warming and cooling over many centuries and in fact has cooled over the past few years. i just can not buy into the global warming theory. done with this convo and back on target of the thread sorry to the opp for the side tangent.

 

[psd1]

LOL! You just had to go there, huh? By the way what about all those tornadoes in the middle of winter, that is normal, huh? That happens all the time, right? One cannot ignore these major changes.

Ha ha ha, how did we get here boys?

Al Gore, Al Gore...is that you?

 

[NSTDI]

Consumer Reports this month had these ratings for fuel economy, actual from their testing as opposed to a rating:

Cadillac Escalade 13MPG, Ford Expedition 13 MPG, Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 13MPG, Passat TDI 37 MPG, Smart ForTwo, 39 MPG.

So some of you think a Dodge Diesel unchipped and meeting all environmental regulations is better than a chipped Passat TDI, which might not meet environmental regulations, but most likely does. I wonder which diesel of the 2 puts out the most NOX?

I was impressed the Passat was 2 MPG less than the Smart ForTwo. I was also impressed at those 2 gas guzzlers getting the same fuel economy as a Dodge diesel.

The Honda CR-Z EX hybrid manual did 35 MPG.

Thanks for those of you who actually answered my original question.

Don

 

[psd1]

Consumer Reports this month had these ratings for fuel economy, actual from their testing as opposed to a rating:

Cadillac Escalade 13MPG, Ford Expedition 13 MPG, Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel 13MPG, Passat TDI 37 MPG, Smart ForTwo, 39 MPG.

So some of you think a Dodge Diesel unchipped and meeting all environmental regulations is better than a chipped Passat TDI, which might not meet environmental regulations, but most likely does. I wonder which diesel of the 2 puts out the most NOX?

I was impressed the Passat was 2 MPG less than the Smart ForTwo. I was also impressed at those 2 gas guzzlers getting the same fuel economy as a Dodge diesel.

The Honda CR-Z EX hybrid manual did 35 MPG.

Thanks for those of you who actually answered my original question.

Don

And the reason the Dodge Diesel only gets 13 MPG....The wonderful DPF that was mandated by the EPA. What a quandry, burning MORE fossil fuels to produce less NoX. Al Gore, Al Gore, AL Gore!

 

[eprater1]

Cummins has some pretty impressive engines coming in 2014 that make gobs of power and meet the newer emmission to be set standard in 2014. im a ford guy but cummins is a hell of an engine.

 

[1gunther1]

Thanks for those of you who actually answered my original question.

That can be very tough when asking simple questions around here.

Another company that is well known in Europe is Upsolute. They offer tunes for the Passat. I have not personally used them but know others who have and are very happy with the performance and economy improvemants.

If you end up chipping please let us know how you like it.

Duh I just saw your signature and now see that you already know about Upsolute. Sorry!

PS love the 409. I have a 63 Imp with the 409/425 motor

 

[chris@revotechnik]

They offer tunes for the Passat.

The engine and ecu used here are not the same as the CR140 in the rest of the world, it isn't even the same engine as the golf/jetta in the US. I'm not aware of anyone who has released software for it at this point.

 

[1gunther1]

The engine and ecu used here are not the same as the CR140 in the rest of the world, it isn't even the same engine as the golf/jetta in the US. I'm not aware of anyone who has released software for it at this point.

Thanks Chris, I was unaware of that!

 

[eprater1]

Chris is a very valuable resource and extremely knowledgable past the RTFM excusse that some people throwo around. im not touching mine itill the 100ki warrantyt is up and them im calling revtech........sam adams is good for me...not so much my tiyping skills. 50mpg
ftw!!!!!!!!


ohh and i love my f350 SRW....950ft/bls is fun. nothing like embarrasing an acura tl, rsx, early mustang 4.6l, or whatever that assumes biug trucks are slow.........there not with the right tune and parts!

 

[Niner]

Chris is a very valuable resource and extremely knowledgable past the RTFM excusse that some people throwo around. im not touching mine itill the 100ki warrantyt is up and them im calling revtech........sam adams is good for me...not so much my tiyping skills. 50mpg
ftw!!!!!!!!


ohh and i love my f350 SRW....950ft/bls is fun. nothing like embarrasing an acura tl, rsx, early mustang 4.6l, or whatever that assumes biug trucks are slow.........there not with the right tune and parts!

Do you tow with your F350 and how is that 6.4 holding up for you? Any problems yet with the EGR failing and hydro locking cylinder #8 or 2 yet? Some folks have been ditching the 6.4 upon failure and putting in a Cummins instead.

 

[chris@revotechnik]

Do you tow with your F350 and how is that 6.4 holding up for you? Any problems yet with the EGR failing and hydro locking cylinder #8 or 2 yet? Some folks have been ditching the 6.4 upon failure and putting in a Cummins instead.

Highly illegal why are you condoning this, especially after your previous posts..

(although I fully support the throwing out a PS for a Cummins ... www.destroked.com)

 

[Niner]

Chris, stating fact, not condoning it, recommending it or even suggesting it be done, just that other people have done it, just like chipping. It's like reading the same old questions by newbies about running jet fuel/ heating oil, used crankcase oil, waste vegetable oil, whatever, I don't condone ever breaking the law, tax evasion, etc, and that includes speeding above the posted limit. Or doing 130mph in a brand new jetta tdi by giving the driver the keys to it while driving it home from the dealership, something eprater has posted about doing. Or his latest post about proving that trucks are fast off the line, ie racing on public streets. Maybe he too should think about what he posts up, his driving behavior is highly questionable on several occasions. You want to see what a vehicle can do, do it on a sanctioned course, drag strip or track, get your time ticket, best lap time, whatever, and post up pictures of it.

 

[Niner]

deleted...

 

[eprater1]

Do you tow with your F350 and how is that 6.4 holding up for you? Any problems yet with the EGR failing and hydro locking cylinder #8 or 2 yet? Some folks have been ditching the 6.4 upon failure and putting in a Cummins instead.

Mine is an 05 so I have the 6.0 not the 6.4. The egr was working fine when I removed it in favor of the delete kit. The real problem with the 6.4/6.0 was actually the coolant w/high silica content sandblasting it's way through the oil cooler and egr cooler allowing water to enter the chambers, flash boiling, creating excess cylinder pressure and in turn blowing the head gaskets or hydrolocking the engine. Mine has over 200k and to be honest I'm more worried about the cam starting to walk than anything else. If I did have to do a block swap I would def consider an old 12v Cummings. Mine has been good to me including many trips to WV and TN loaded down. I run the edge evolution that not only tunes the engine but reprograms the transmission to work in conjunction w/the extra power. Also being able to pull codes and see live parameters is very valuable.


On a side note when did I say it was on public roads? I run at Greer drag strip thank you much.