Anyone care to write a How-To on bleeding brakes with VagCom??

[Midnight Rider]

I have read through the FAQ post on bleeding brakes, and still am slightly confused about some things. Its more of a collection on questions, some answered, some not...
I thought someone out there with all the knowledge can write a step by step How-To on bleeding the brakes with a VagCom. I, for one, would be very grateful.

Thanks!

 

[roadhard1960]

If you use a pressure bleeder and do not let the master cylinder go dry you do not need to use a vagcom abs procedure. Not an answer to the question though.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=2240186

 

[Ski in NC]

MR- I just did my 2001 last night. Only tools I used were a vacuum sucker pump and an 11mm wrench. Also needle nose and screwdriver to get the screen out of the reservoir. Sucked reservoir down. Used a squashed brass tube to suck out the rear (clutch) reservoir. Then filled with new fluid. Then went around car and opened bleeders and sucked out fluid until what was in the catch can was clear and new. Then did the clutch the same way. Made sure I kept topping up the reservoir so no air got in circuit or abs pump.

Only problem I had was when all done, the clutch was spongy. So I bled it a few times with the pedal pushed. Used a stick to hold pedal. Rested end of stick against b-pillar latch. Three times bled, and clutch was back to normal. Used two pints of DOT-4.

 

[05_new_jetta]

always can do it the old fashion way and have a friend help pump while you bleed each wheel starting from the furthest away from the master cylinder.

may i ask why your bleeding? Are you changing your fluid or did you have other trouble?

 

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks for the reply's!

Good to know that with a Motive Bleeder I don't need to cycle the ABS pump.

My car is about 3 years old now and I do not know if the previous owner ever changed the fluid, that's my reason for doing it.

So whats the procedure??


1: Open and clean out the fluid reservoir, including sensor and screen
2: Attach the full motive bleeder to the reservoir
3: Pump to 12-14 psi
4: Open bleeders on calipers furthest to closest (RR, LR, RF, LF, Clutch???) until fresh fluid comes out.
5: Detach the Motive bleeder, clean any mess, close up and drive more???

Is it that easy?

 

[oilhammer]

If you do not run the ABS pump, you are not flushing the entire system. And you need a scan tool such as VCDS to do that.

What I do:

Remove the fill cap, and remove the filter screen and clean it thoroughly. Then dry it with air. Then snap it back in place. Then I open all 4 bleeders, leave the reservoir cap off, and let it gravity bleed about .5 L through. I like to use the Ate blue and yellow fluids alternately for the color change so I know it has been drawn through. I have an air-powered brake bleeder device that can speed this process up, but I generally only use that for pulling fluid through a system that has been dry (such as after a master cylinder or ABS pump module replacement). This is a good time to do some other services while you slowly add fluid. You do not want to let the reservoir go empty!

Once I get the fluid through, and I see a clearly different color fluid at all 4 corners, I close the bleeders, top the reservoir up, and put the cap back in place.

Then I grab the laptop, and access the ABS controller. I first do the <output test>, while sitting in the driver's seat, and go through and do exactly as it says, depressing and releasing the brake pedal. You only need pause for about 1 second during each mode. This only takes about 2 minutes tops.

I then do the gravity bleed bit some more, maybe another 5 minutes or so. Top the reservoir again, replace the cap.

Then use the VCDS again, and go into <basic settings> Group 001, and then pump the brake pedal about 10 times. Stop, repeat, stop, repeat. Then open all the bleeders again, with the cap off, draw that last bit of fluid through.

Then after it is all together, as I drive out of the shop, I do the <output test> sequence once more.

This is the procedure I use for PM fluid flushing, NOT for bleeding for a new component install. This gets all the fluid flushed out of not only the service brakes but the ABS as well. You also excercise all the ABS components that may not get worked under normal driving, and pushes any old fluid out of the ABS pump and valves into the system to get pushed through.

 

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks for the detailed info, oilhammer!

So you don't bleed the clutch?? Is that unnecessary??

 

[oilhammer]

Yes, on manual transmission cars I bleed the clutch too. I just gravity bleed it along with the 4 wheel bleeders. But be certain to keep the reservoir FULL when doing the clutch, as the hose for fluid feed to the clutch circuit is taken from higher up on the side of the reservoir.

 

[Midnight Rider]

Thanks again!

 

[hid3]

Oilhammer, is there any VCDS procedure to fix a spongy pedal issue withour changing the brake fluid? I've flushed it this summer but I have spongy pedal feel

 

[Midnight Rider]

Once again, thanks Oilhammer!

I followed your instructions this morning to replace the fluid in the brakes. All went very well. Appreciate your expert advice!

Some observations:

1: Gravity bleeding the clutch did not work for me, I had to pump the clutch (Press down, pull back up)
2: I used the motive bleeder, used about 5 psi to speed up the process.
3: The motive bleeder is a great system to keep the reservoir full while bleeding. Makes it easier for laymen like me.
4: The bleeder hose supplied by motive is very short and very stiff, I will be looking for an alternative.
5: Used just more than 1 liter of fluid till I was happy with the color. Had bought 1,5 liters.

Brakes seem the same as before, am happy with that as I was happy with the brakes from the get-go!

I guess the previous owner did change the fluid, it had blue fluid in it. When I opened the rear bleeder screw it changed from blue to yellow back to blue, and then after a while my new yellow fluid came through. Showed me that the was a little very old fluid left... Hope I did a better job.

Thanks again to all for their input!

 

[2004STARWARSTDI]

Bleeding sequence

Thanks for the reply's!

Good to know that with a Motive Bleeder I don't need to cycle the ABS pump.

My car is about 3 years old now and I do not know if the previous owner ever changed the fluid, that's my reason for doing it.

So whats the procedure??


1: Open and clean out the fluid reservoir, including sensor and screen
2: Attach the full motive bleeder to the reservoir
3: Pump to 12-14 psi
4: Open bleeders on calipers furthest to closest (RR, LR, RF, LF, Clutch???) until fresh fluid comes out.
5: Detach the Motive bleeder, clean any mess, close up and drive more???

Is it that easy?

Your brake bleeding sequence is wrong for an A5 Jetta! According to Bentley it should be LF, RF, LR, RR, Clutch!

 

[Midnight Rider]

Your brake bleeding sequence is wrong for an A5 Jetta! According to Bentley it should be LF, RF, LR, RR, Clutch!

Yea, I saw that this morning before I headed out. Did it the way you stated...

Thanks for pointing that out though!

 

[El Dobro]

You also should be using Super Dot-4 brake fluid for '06 and up.

 

[PaxTDI]

Oilhammer, is there any VCDS procedure to fix a spongy pedal issue withour changing the brake fluid? I've flushed it this summer but I have spongy pedal feel

I would like to know this answer too. I have tried numberous times using my VCDS combined with brake bleeding and cannot removed the spongy pedal.

 

[Midnight Rider]

You also should be using Super Dot-4 brake fluid for '06 and up.

After looking at Pep Boys, AAP, and Autozone I went to my friendly neighborhood VW dealer and got the original VW stuff. Although it only says Dot-4 on the bottle, it exceeds what is recommended in the Bently.

 

[2004STARWARSTDI]

ABS bleeding

I would like to know this answer too. I have tried numberous times using my VCDS combined with brake bleeding and cannot removed the spongy pedal.

Did you use a motive power brake bleeder? Did you use the Ross-tech/VCDS ABS bleed procedure?

ABS Brake Pump Bleeding
Updated 29 Mar. 2005​

Ross-Tech is not responsible for any damage or problems that may result from following these instructions. They are to be used at your own risk. As always, you should refer to a Factory Repair Manual for your vehicle!​

This procedure details how to bleed the ABS pump when replacing brake fluid. This procedure is NOT necessary unless your ABS pump has gone completely dry. For normal brake work including fluid replacement, hose replacement, pad replacement, etc. this procedure is NOT necessary. Also, this procedure does not take the place of good ol' fashioned brake bleeding with one person operating the pedal while the other person opens the bleeder valves one by one and collects the discharged fluid.
​

There are certain test conditions that must be met before doing this procedure:

• Vehicle must on a lift or safe jack stands with no wheels touching the ground
• Ignition should be in the "On" position

Procedure for Bleeding the ABS Brake Pump on VW Golf, GTI, Jetta, and Audi TT:
[Select]
[03 - ABS Brakes]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 001
[Go!]
This will trigger the ABS pump to turn on for about 10 seconds. You should hear the fairly loud pump clicking during this time.
Click the [Done, Go Back] button and you're all set.
Procedure for Bleeding the ABS Brake Pump on VW Passat and Audi A4/S4, A6/S6, and A8/S8:
[Select]
[03 - ABS Brakes]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 002
[Go!]
This will trigger the ABS pump to turn on for about 10 seconds. You should hear the fairly loud pump clicking during this time.
Click the [Done, Go Back] button and you're all set.
​

 

[El Dobro]

After looking at Pep Boys, AAP, and Autozone I went to my friendly neighborhood VW dealer and got the original VW stuff. Although it only says Dot-4 on the bottle, it exceeds what is recommended in the Bently.

I have a bottle of the Pentosin Super Dot-4 and the specs are SAE J 1704/ISO 4925 Class 4/FMVSS 116 DOT 4
If those are the same specs on the can VW gave you, then it's ok. Sometimes the dealers tend to tell us that whatever they have will work.

 

[Midnight Rider]

2004STARWARSTDI: Used both motive bleeder and the Ross-Tech procedure as outlined by oilhammer in his post above. I don't know if it is necessary or not to activate the ABS pump, all I know is after I did it there was more old fluid bleeding out.

El Dobro: I'm sorry I don't know the specs on the bottles anymore, threw them away. VW Part Number is B-000-750-M2. Can get it from ECS ( http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-R32--3.2/Braking/Fluid/ES258762/ )

 

[El Dobro]

From the boiling points listed on the VW bottle, I would say that it's Super DOT 4.

 

[Midnight Rider]

From the boiling points listed on the VW bottle, I would say that it's Super DOT 4.

BTW, the boiling points quoted in the Bently for Super Dot-4 where lower than the ones on the bottle I got from VW.

 

[hid3]

I would like to know this answer too. I have tried numberous times using my VCDS combined with brake bleeding and cannot removed the spongy pedal.

Was this question ever answered? Same issue here but I didn't try anything with VCDS due to being afraid to do something wrong/brake things.

 

[je]

When I cycled the pump, the pedal came back up, but if I lift off the pedal during this process the sound changes, and there's some movement left in the pedal. Is that the indication that there's air in the ABS pump?

Pedal is pretty firm, but the braking is still lacking (even after bleeding). Maybe I should sand the rotors and pads (again)?

 

[PaxTDI]

Did you use a motive power brake bleeder? Did you use the Ross-tech/VCDS ABS bleed procedure?

ABS Brake Pump Bleeding​

Updated 29 Mar. 2005

I did NOT use a Motive Power bleeder. I used the old fashion method, pump the pedal, bleed each caliber. Do you believe using the Motive makes any difference?

My local VW dealer repair tech told me that they get a lot of complaints about the soft pedal. He claims it's desing issue with the ABS. I dont know.

​

 

[PDJetta]

Did you use a motive power brake bleeder? Did you use the Ross-tech/VCDS ABS bleed procedure?

ABS Brake Pump Bleeding
Updated 29 Mar. 2005

​

Ross-Tech is not responsible for any damage or problems that may result from following these instructions. They are to be used at your own risk. As always, you should refer to a Factory Repair Manual for your vehicle!​

This procedure details how to bleed the ABS pump when replacing brake fluid. This procedure is NOT necessary unless your ABS pump has gone completely dry. For normal brake work including fluid replacement, hose replacement, pad replacement, etc. this procedure is NOT necessary. Also, this procedure does not take the place of good ol' fashioned brake bleeding with one person operating the pedal while the other person opens the bleeder valves one by one and collects the discharged fluid.


​

There are certain test conditions that must be met before doing this procedure:

• Vehicle must on a lift or safe jack stands with no wheels touching the ground
• Ignition should be in the "On" position

Procedure for Bleeding the ABS Brake Pump on VW Golf, GTI, Jetta, and Audi TT:
[Select]
[03 - ABS Brakes]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 001
[Go!]
This will trigger the ABS pump to turn on for about 10 seconds. You should hear the fairly loud pump clicking during this time.
Click the [Done, Go Back] button and you're all set.
Procedure for Bleeding the ABS Brake Pump on VW Passat and Audi A4/S4, A6/S6, and A8/S8:
[Select]
[03 - ABS Brakes]
[Basic Settings - 04]
Group 002
[Go!]
This will trigger the ABS pump to turn on for about 10 seconds. You should hear the fairly loud pump clicking during this time.
Click the [Done, Go Back] button and you're all set.


​

I take it both front caliper bleeder bolts have to be open (with drain hoses attached) when the ABS pump is running, correct?

My pedal has been soft for yerars (may have come that way new), so I consider it normal.

I've used the VCDS bleed procedure after running the system dry during a brake flush (the poedal was spongy before this occurred). I waited a week to do the VCDS bleed procedure and used the Motive power bleeder after I ran the system dry accidently, and I noticed absolutely no improvement or degradation in pedal feel before or after this mishap, and the method of bleeding had no bearing, either--Still spongy.

--Nate

 

[El Dobro]

On the '06, I would crack the bleeders around every 5000 and get a few air bubbles out of the back ones. This happened until around 30,000 when the brakes finally firmed up. It must be something with the way the system is laid out. I was never too happy about the ABS module being that close to the exhaust, especially now with the particulate filter being right there on the '09.

 

[Jeffro420]

Your brake bleeding sequence is wrong for an A5 Jetta! According to Bentley it should be LF, RF, LR, RR, Clutch!

I have seen several different bleed orders; I currently have my front end up on jacks (only have 2) and was hoping to do the front wheels first. What is the worst that can happen if I do the wrong order?

I have a 2010 Jetta TDI.