Anybody use Propel HPR in a BEW....

Phyloader

Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2021
Location
Napa, California
TDI
2010 Jetta SW
I found this document online last night. It has more information on RD than I've ever found in one place. Prepared by a consulting agency, very detailed with multiple data sources including test results with blends like R20 and R50.

Should dispel some of the myths and false marketing claims by vendors of RD. Interesting to note, not all pollution constituents are reduced in the test engines and any improvements can be negated based on engine load or duty cycle. Some engines measured higher pollution constituents running RD or blends which was unknown to me.

That is a pretty large document you found there. I do concede RD is less energy dense by volume; my initial assumption that it wasn't was based on the unfounded assumption petroleum diesel did not contain aromatics. For some reason I thought petro companies fractioned off all the naptha and aromatics when refining diesel.

RD has sulfur content an order of magnitude or more lower than D2. Less sulfur on your injectors and less sulfur dioxide in the air. And how about that cloud point of -27 degrees Celsius compared to D2 - 6 Celsius. Sounds like if you're driving a tank through siberia or a truck through michigan in the dead of winter you'd want RD for that cold start.

As Cumins stated in the document: "Engine performance remained stable and consistent while using RD. Cummins’ customers “should not expect to see any differences” when using it instead of petroleum diesel, except they MAY experience a “fuel economy detriment of 0 percent to 6 percent” when using neat RD, DEPENDING on the specific application and engine duty cycle."

The affect is cited as dependent on numerous variables. A few percent loss in efficiency I consider small enough to be negligible. Personally I have not noticed. A few percent is lost in the noise of other variables during normal driving conditions. Personally measuring these parameters in a lab setting with my vehicle and controlled variables is beyond my desire. If the economy hit were 20%, yes maybe I would care. But "MIGHT" be 0-6% "DEPENDING" on engine cycle? Don't care.

Irrespective of all these different fuel properties, whatever small loss of power or efficiency there may be is not something I care about because this was never my purpose for buying it. I'm not going to get my panties tied up feeling personally deceived because of what some marketing kid decided to plop on some brochure. It is not necessarily false to say RD can produce more horsepower or torque. Will it always at all engine speeds in all engines? Maybe not...and I don't care. The cold start benefit is 100% true by all measures. But do I care if anyone uses this in their marketing? No, I DGAF about the marketing department for any product ever and never have precisely because marketing sadly always gravitates toward ingratiating petty desires of petty people. If I made a marketing flyer for people like me it would say one thing "Do you want basically the same product without the risk of petroleum pipelines rupturing somewhere near you?"

My one and only purpose is to avoid using petroleum and I don't think avoiding it is petty. Crude petroleum is noxious. In no circumstances should we be piping toxic sludge under our oceans and above our aquifers. If liquid fuel can be made other ways it should. Now we got a new oil spill in SoCal. Every year somewhere. All the time. Having toxic sludge showing up in my backyard is not something I seek to increase the probability of. An entire housing tract in Arkansas was ruined by a leaking oil pipeline a few years back; and then you need to clamor for legal culpability from the company just to get the proper value for the home that their negligence destroyed. Why put ourselves through this if there is another way? Why even risk slacker pipeline operators spilling crude if we can avoid it altogether? It seeps down well casings and into aquifers; it goes everywhere. For a 2% volumetric efficiency boost on your commute you would risk crude petroleum contaminating your personal drinking water and that of everyone's children for thousands and thousands of years? Is that really a sound cost benefit analysis?

Fuel properties will always be variable and no one fuel is going to outdo another on every single property. Power, efficiency, cold starts, emissions, etc etc. Drag racers swear on their ethanol; yes its volumetrically less energy dense than gasoline by quite a large margin, but I see guys buying it all the time and they claim to put their cars on dyno's and measure more peak HP. And more power to em, no pun intended. No one was ever troubled by an ethanol spill....or a corn spill.
 

DocMaddie

Active member
Joined
Jan 5, 2015
Location
San Francisco, CA
TDI
2005 Jetta Mk IV TDI GLS Wagon
Been running Propel HPR, 76 HPR, and B20/renewable mix from Dog patch Biofuels in SF on my BEW for 40k miles. Had to replace fuel lines to and from the tandem pump. Last summer the tandem pump had a very small ooze on hot days. Nothing in cooler weather. Bought a new tandem pump and will install at some point. I love these fuels.
 

Herr Rolf

Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Location
Southern California
TDI
Passat 2005 GLS sedan
I have been using HPR in my ALH run TDi's for years and without exception the first time I used it without changing the injection pump seals, it will cause the IP to leak like a sieve. Now, I have a BEW with 220K miles on it.. I know it doesnt have an Injection pump but what could. happen if I started using the HPR? Any help from your experience would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Pete
Not in BEW, but in BHW (05 passat) and 03 F350 7.3, and in '15 A8 3.0. All seem to love it.
They all seem to run smoother, the Audi noticeably quieter. I take that as a good sign.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I have been using HPR in my ALH run TDi's for years and without exception the first time I used it without changing the injection pump seals, it will cause the IP to leak like a sieve. Now, I have a BEW with 220K miles on it.. I know it doesnt have an Injection pump but what could. happen if I started using the HPR? Any help from your experience would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Pete
I used it for a long time in my 2005 VW Jetta Wagon GLS TDI without any problems when I was still in California. I wish it was available here in Arizona.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
CARB Diesel has a minimum cetane of at least 50 so the RD is way above that. CARB diesel is the only thing I liked about CARB.
Actually the minimum cetane for CARB diesel is 53. If you read the Gladstone analysis you will see when they tested their sample it was 56. The difference isn't as significant as you think it is.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
More cetane past a certain point is of no use other than wasting money. 50 is more than enough.
It’s worse than that. High cetane actually has a negative impact on power and fuel economy.
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
Renewable diesel is Diesel # 2. It meets the same ASTM specification as petroleum diesel #2, ASTM D975.

So in regards to the above "high cetane" comment, irrespective of it not being accurate in premise, you can have ASTM D975 fuels with higher or lower cetane, and they are all 'Diesel # 2.
True, but here where various forms of diesel are being discussed "D2" is used for Petroleum Diesel, "BD" for BioDiesel, and "RD" for Renewable Diesel
 

romad

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 27, 2011
Location
Prescott, AZ
TDI
2005 Jetta GLS Wagon "Cranberry"
I didn't appreciate CARB ULSD diesel until I started living in Oregon...
I realized the difference when I went to TDIFest 2012 and had to use non-CARB diesel. CARB Diesel is the ONLY thing that CARB did that I approved.

BTW, Matt, we REALLY need someone like you here in Arizona!
 
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