another hpfp failure

[tuan209]

I guess you guys can add me to the list of guys on here who had their hpfp failed.

I was driving home from dinner tonight when I got the dreaded check engine light pop up. I knew right then and there that it was the fuel pump. I drove for maybe another mile before the car completely died. Luckily I was at a stop light when this happened. I do not know what would have happened if I took my car this morning up to the mountains to snowboard.

I called VW roadside and they promptly came within an hour. I dont know what the next step is so any suggestions would be welcomed. I knew of the chances of this happening prior to purchasing the car, so I cant say that I am blind sided. What should I say or do if VW tries to deny covering the fuel pump under warranty?

My car was a 2011 with 13900 miles. I pumped pretty much from the same Shell station and added biodiesel at every fuel up.

I am located in SLC for those that are interested.

Tuan

 

[bmatt]

Don't tell them you add anything! Diesel only! Good luck.

 

[IMAAaron]

I guess you guys can add me to the list of guys on here who had their hpfp failed.

You will have to do that yourself... And please file with NHSTA.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=299854

I dont know what the next step is so any suggestions would be welcomed. I knew of the chances of this happening prior to purchasing the car, so I cant say that I am blind sided. What should I say or do if VW tries to deny covering the fuel pump under warranty?

Going strictly by VW's track record, tomorrow you will be told your fuel just must have been contaminated. They'll point in the direction of a misfuel - because whether you think so or not, this HAS to be the fault of you, the customer. You'll insist that you fueled properly at optimum temps and even used biodiesel to combat the [known] issue. They'll then come back pointing at the bio and tell you they'll fix it, and you might actually feel lucky they are.

Have your fuel records/receipts handy, you'll need them soon. There was a time they were replacing EVERYTHING. It looks like they're back to cutting corners/costs and skipping a few parts. Find out which parts YOU want replaced and apply pressure as necessary. Good luck, and keep us posted.

 

[tuan209]

Thanks guys! Luckily I found this site before purchasing my car and I have done all I can to protect myself if the fuel pump in my car were to ever fail.

 

[JSWTDI09]

Since the car has not yet been scanned, it is still possible that it is something other than the HPFP. If it actually turns out to be the HPFP, be sure to add your name to the official HPFP failure thread and be sure to file a report with the NHTSA website. 14,000 miles is pretty early, but luckily your car is well within the warranty period. There should be no question about getting it fixed by VW. If they try to claim contaminated fuel, demand to see the lab test results and demand a sample directly from the tank for your own analysis.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. Since when is SLC in Houston.

 

[seamus19066]

You should be fully covered under warranty. They will probably check your fuel and if there is gas in the diesel then you better run back to that fuel station and have your receipt as they may be responsible if their fuel is contaminated. Very disappointing to here that you were using some bio diesel because from all I read lately that adds the most lubricity of any additive and was thought to be the root cause of the failure. Meaning the low sulfur fuel is causing it due to lack of lubricity or gas in the diesel as done by many new diesel owners. Bio is the recommendation on alot of diesel forums and recent tests to combat lubricity deficiency. Second on the list was opti lube xrp. I am driving nervous right now at 61K on my 2010 TDI and was just about to start using more bio diesel from all I read. Now your story blows that theory out the window! Good luck but you shouldn't have any issues. Now being out of warranty is very concerning.

Please post back after it is determined what it ACTUALLY is. Hope it's something else because bio was supposed to be the combat to this.

 

[tuan209]

Since the car has not yet been scanned, it is still possible that it is something other than the HPFP. If it actually turns out to be the HPFP, be sure to add your name to the official HPFP failure thread and be sure to file a report with the NHTSA website. 14,000 miles is pretty early, but luckily your car is well within the warranty period. There should be no question about getting it fixed by VW. If they try to claim contaminated fuel, demand to see the lab test results and demand a sample directly from the tank for your own analysis.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. Since when is SLC in Houston.

Thanks! I moved out here to SLC last year for school. I guess its time to update my profile .

 

[emerscape]

I actually had around the same mileage when my HPFP went. I spent some time debating whether I should get rid of it (actually got a pretty good offer on a 2012 gas 2.5 exact version of my car from a local VW dealer) but didn't go for it. I'm glad I kept it. Love driving it. Unfortunately it has changed the way I make decisions. For example, my wife and I are expecting our 2nd child in February. I probably won't take long trips with the family until the weather warms up. Wouldn't want to get stuck out in the cold with a pregnant wife (or a newborn).

 

[Moralesj]

This is a list of things you need to do from the start in order to make things go a lot smoother and not have to worry about the dealer trying to skrew you over.
1. Ask them to pull a sample of the fuel in your tank right in front of you. (so they don't just give you any ol fuel they want)
2. Make sure you call VWOA imediatlly and let them know your cercumstances and have the case open and update them as much as possible so you have every thing on record in your own words.
3. if you have the recipts from your fill upa make a copy of at least the last 10-15 and have it handy incase they ask.
4. make a claim with NHTSA, there is a women Karren who is actually putting together info for a case against VW for this exact thing.
5. stay in contact with the dealer as much as possible, be annoying if you have to. If you want them to take this seriously and not look something over or just blow it off then you have to stay on top of them.
You may already know this but I thought I would try to help. I hate that VW has let it come this far and still not accept responsibility. Let me know if you have any questions. I would also like to know what happened when it cut out and what the dealer says.

 

[tuan209]

I actually had around the same mileage when my HPFP went. I spent some time debating whether I should get rid of it (actually got a pretty good offer on a 2012 gas 2.5 exact version of my car from a local VW dealer) but didn't go for it. I'm glad I kept it. Love driving it. Unfortunately it has changed the way I make decisions. For example, my wife and I are expecting our 2nd child in February. I probably won't take long trips with the family until the weather warms up. Wouldn't want to get stuck out in the cold with a pregnant wife (or a newborn).

If you dont mind me asking, did your car take a big hit from the dealer when you tried to trade it in because of the fuel pump?

I love the car but potentially being stranded up in the mountains may not be worth it for me.

 

[aja8888]

If you dont mind me asking, did your car take a big hit from the dealer when you tried to trade it in because of the fuel pump?

I love the car but potentially being stranded up in the mountains may not be worth it for me.

Well, the repair may show up on a carfax report.

 

[53 willys]

Take it to strong vw....you will have no problem with a full warranty on this...mine failed at 47,000 and strong vw made it painless.

Good luck
And yeah I would not bother telling them you ran bio... ;-)

 

[hotpocketdeath]

I pumped pretty much from the same Shell station and added biodiesel at every fuel up.

I'm kind of surprised no one else spoke up about filling up at a Shell Station. Shell does seem to get called out more often than other companies on this issue and I specifically remember 2 other threads (no doubt there are more) that people have complained about HPFP issues after filling up at a shell. This thread makes the 3rd.

 

[DubFamily]

I've used exclusively Shell diesel in my car since the day I bought it. There is nothing wrong with shell; there's just more Shell diesel stations that any other in the US, so they naturally fail "more."

 

[WutGas?]

I'm kind of surprised no one else spoke up about filling up at a Shell Station. Shell does seem to get called out more often than other companies on this issue and I specifically remember 2 other threads (no doubt there are more) that people have complained about HPFP issues after filling up at a shell. This thread makes the 3rd.

While I don't fill up at Shell any more either due to there being more failures (allegedly) with folks that use Shell....there are also a ton of Shell stations out there. More than any other I would venture to guess.

On that note, I don't use Shell just because of the "better safe than sorry" logic. Of course, they are always quite a bit more expensive as well in my area.

 

[nikhsub1]

There is nothing wrong with shell;

If you say so... I saw a Shell station here in Los Angeles being refilled with a United Oil tanker. I didn't use Shell before that and there is no way in hell I'd ever use it now.

 

[aljorma]

I'm kind of surprised no one else spoke up about filling up at a Shell Station. Shell does seem to get called out more often than other companies on this issue and I specifically remember 2 other threads (no doubt there are more) that people have complained about HPFP issues after filling up at a shell. This thread makes the 3rd.

I agree I've noticed the same and he's another Texan.

 

[DubFamily]

If you say so... I saw a Shell station here in Los Angeles being refilled with a United Oil tanker. I didn't use Shell before that and there is no way in hell I'd ever use it now.

And I'll guarantee you that if you watch long enough, you'll see the same thing at any other station as well...

Fuel all comes from the same depot for any given area, and companies who are short drivers or trucks will contract out for what they need.

Besides, how many failures have you heard of from using United Oil's diesel...

 

[oilhammer]

And I'll guarantee you that if you watch long enough, you'll see the same thing at any other station as well...

Fuel all comes from the same depot for any given area, and companies who are short drivers or trucks will contract out for what they need.

Besides, how many failures have you heard of from using United Oil's diesel...

It is nice at least someone posting on this thread knows a little about how gasoline and diesel gets to the pumps.

In others word's complaining about a specific 'brand' of fuel makes about as much sense as complaining about a specific power plant's electrons at your outlets in your house.

 

[WutGas?]

I read this on a another forum and was curious if someone knows if it is true. It was in discussion by folks talking at the pump at a Murphy USA and the other guy saying how he got much better mileage when he filled up at Loves.

Walmart gets its fuel from the wholesale lot of fuel. It can have a small amount of gas in it from the last "load" of gasoline sent through the pipeline. The first 5% and last 5% of each load sent through is mixed with other fuels sent through the pipeline. Loves and all big name retailers buy the inbetween, which is the most pure. Walmart buys the first and last 5% which total 10% of a total load at a discounted rate. Therefor they are able to sell it at a lower price without selling volume.

 

[oilhammer]

It is true that pipelines are used for various product, however, the rules that apply to all retail stations would (should) prohibit the sale of anything that doesn't meet a specific standard.

Since there is such a massive volume of fuels being used, I find it hard to believe that Wal-mart can have a place to "stockpile" enough fuel, especiallly gasoline that goes bad in a couple weeks, to make a signifigant difference in prices. It is more likely they just move so much fuel on the retail end that gives them a better at-pump price. Plus, most stations actually sell retail fuel at an almost break-even level, sometimes a loss leader (price wars, anyone) while the goods in the quickie mart inside make up the actual profits.

In other words, Wal-mart can sell fuel at basically cost and still not have to worry about the costs associated with selling it, since they have a store full of Chinese consumer goods sold at 500% mark up.

 

[WutGas?]

But do the fuel distributors sell "wholesale" and "inbetween" fuel? Is that an actual thing? The first and last 5% cost less to the retail locations?

 

[DubFamily]

^no.

What Oilhammer said; and Walmart buys all its fuel from the cheapest bidder every time it purchases; there is no specific brand associated to "WalMart" so they don't need to adhere to any one company's pricing.

WalMart does not get anything like "in-between" fuel; they just buy bulk from whoever gives them the best price each time.


EDIT: To clarify: Walmart buys wholesale, yes. But it is not "mixed" in any way; it still has to meet the same standards for quality and purity as every other retailer.

 

[oilhammer]

Usually the "pipeline changeover" fuel is sold off to industrial places that have less of an issue with mixed fuel, and in some cases I have heard it is used to make jet fuel.

I do not know if that is true or not, but in some respects it makes sense, as many military engines are designed to be able to run on a wide variety of fuels, including jet fuel.

The stuff inbetween is called "transmix".

http://www.pipeline101.com/Operating/batching_model.html

And places like this "recycle" transmix:

http://www.alliedenergycorp.com/transmix.php

 

[IMAAaron]

There's a big difference between coincidence and correlation. If you're in the mindset of "this can't happen to me because I'm doing everything right" it's absurd. I can see the temptation to want to connect the dots. Its all Shell, it's all in Texas, same time, and perhaps they all filled up on the same moon phase. If you believe it's all correlated and it helps you sleep, great.

On the flip side, it might be a coincidence that they're all using shell. We stress enough here using stations with high turnover, that fits shell indeed. Texas isn't really a small state, so it's not like these are all coming out of Rhode Island instantaneously. Lastly - the OP mentioned SLC. I not too familiar with Texas, but I assumed, with the mention of mountains, he was referring to Salt Lake City, Utah. Whoops.

So as best I can correlate this, I submit: There is an inherent flaw with the HPFP in these vehicles. There is rhetoric coming from VW in the form of poor fuel and/or customer headspace. But it's working, clearly. There are still owners not only buying it, but subscribing to the newsletter. There were 3 failures this week that we know of. The enthusiasts that can actually define the acronym 'HPFP' that arguably know better are supporting VW's rhetoric. I applaud VW for their PR department - they're doing a great job.

But who knows - we don't even know for sure the OP has a busted HPFP. Could just be a rouge CEL.

 

[hotpocketdeath]

Fuel all comes from the same depot for any given area, and companies who are short drivers or trucks will contract out for what they need.

The fuel that comes from the pipelines is a "Base" product and additives are added between the time it leaves the pipeline to when it's put into truck, ready to be brought to the station.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=277725
The link talks about gasoline, but the same can be said for diesel as well.

 

[DubFamily]

Yep; I know that well already. Are you trying to say that Shell's additive package is somewho "bad?" I'm pretty confident in saying, again, that Shell is not the issue here...

If Shell diesel were indeed "bad" for our cars, it would have effected far more than just our cars (again, Shell is the largest fuel retailer in the US... they sell to a LOT of cars daily) and by now would have been a national story.

The HPFP is the issue here, not Shell Diesel...

 

[hotpocketdeath]

Yep; I know that well already. Are you trying to say that Shell's additive package is somewho "bad?" I'm pretty confident in saying, again, that Shell is not the issue here...

If Shell diesel were indeed "bad" for our cars, it would have effected far more than just our cars (again, Shell is the largest fuel retailer in the US... they sell to a LOT of cars daily) and by now would have been a national story.

The HPFP is the issue here, not Shell Diesel...

No that's not what I am saying.

I was simply pointing out that even though the fuel come from the same area, the actual content of the fuel can be slightly different once it reaches its destination.

And mistakes do happen. And when you deal the the quantity of fuel sales like shell does, you can't expect an absolute flawless system.

I'm also not saying there isn't a problem with the HPFP in general.

 

[DubFamily]

Aah, gotcha. Yes; I agree there is always that 1% possibility of error in anything humans touch

 

[tuan209]

Quick update -

VW roadside dropped my car at Southtown VW here in Salt Lake City before I could request it to be dropped of at another dealer that a forum member suggested.

The dealership told me the fuel pump went bad and they found extensive metal shavings and gasoline in the fuel system. I immediately told the service guy that I was aware of the hpfp situation and that I had kept every fuel up receipt since I bought my car. I also demanded that I could pull a sample of the fuel, in which they agreed.

I will keep you guys posted with any future updates.....