AndyPandys Sender Mod, can give VAG HP at high rev.

andypandy

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Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
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Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
AndyPandys Sender Mod, can give VAG HP at high rev. MovieUpdated!

Content: Originaly seen as a problem, Sender construction can cause drop of HP. Have seen this issue before.. but not in the state as an Power Enhancement thing.

Sample Car:
Golf 110HP -00
No EGR valve-straight pipe, "Evry modded" realhard, through a simple pressure switch 0.7bar, Simple Diode mod MAP to adjust boost to 1.3bar (18psi), ripped snowscreen, Changed hose before and after stock VNT15 to bigger, have a hole in my cat (done with a crowbar/tapping bar from behind). Intake manifold cleaned.
For short.. I take the max out of stock parts!
Mods less than 100$.
Otherwise strict stock, no box, no chip, no changed exhaust, no nozzles.


The story:
My car has always had air bubbles in the fuel line, but I have not taken any serious issue about it because my feeling was that the car was as good as it could at this level.
(It was unbelievable slow back when I got it, totally full of carbon/soot, snowscreen clogged)

After driving a year+ my feeling was that the car was not that fast as before. Power in the bottom.. still short squeak in second gear hard shifting, but loose at middle/higher rev.
Was the turbo finally going to go to the "long fields" J ?
After a couple of weeks the car loose more and more, not that many HP left over 3500r as before, but then… I realise that the bubbles had increseed significantly! The pump was starwing for fuel all the time!

After investigation I found the trouble… leaky "T" O-rings at the filter… changed filter, O-rings, but the bubbles only get back to the "original state", but all my "initial" power was back!

Now I was in the going mode… if this increese of air/bubbles get the hp fly away like that.. then.. I want to get rid of them all!, just to see if there should be any change of all.

I noticed that there was a significant dullness/inertia when I suck.. *smile*… in the line from the fueltank…! That lead me, after a while, to the fuelsender box inside the fueltank… and a thread here about an known trouble in extreme low temperatures that there is a narrow valve in the sender box hose that don’t is to be really neded in VAG cars, causing low HP or get the car to stop totally in cold weather, diesel with higher viscosity get the problem even worse. And this is on stock cars!
VAG has sent out an recall/updated sender module that has been replaced in some cars. If your sender number ends with "H" don’t bother this thread.

The valve construction in it self.. is really a big restriction in flow in the fuel line! And has a hose clips on top where air can get in in extreme underpressure.

In normal conditions, this is good enough… but when you squeese all out of this system with chips, nozzles, etc.. (or like I am with stock parts) it's going to be an issue for sure.
This is the answer to why some install liftpumps… and get cars that behave way better afterwards.

I Drilled out the valve carefully.

In my car, all bubbles went away after a day of driving, totally!

And the power… not any change in low rev… or middle… but hey! What a change 3800r and above!!!
I have now power to the redline out..
A little smokey all the way out 5000r now!
(in fact to much smokey.. had to adjust my "evrymode potentiometer" down a bit yesterday)
My "butdyno" says like 5-12hp on top in this car.

I know now, that I probably don’t need to buy a liftpump… even if I install R520 nozzles with a vnt2052v in the future.

This car is now quite fast, and for a lousy diesel car, with almost stock parts.. real fast!
(this week I go "even" with a Skoda Octavia RS out in 4:th… when he realize that he could'nt outrun..?! … this… dirty.. blue.. diesel golf… ***?? He he JJ)



If this tip is helping you to find high HP:s..?
I don’t know… It's depending on how much hp you are taking out of your VP37 TDI today,
but it made a change for my TDI car.

Stock car = don’t bother this thread
Chip/box hard.. other nozzles/turbo = give it a try!




Pictures/Instruction:
Have 15 minutes over?
Max half tank filled?

Passenger back seat





Do your number end with an "H".. ok.. mount back the screws


lets go


Loose lines


Take it out


Yepp, does'nt seems good


..from behind


Drill it out carefully, drill, blow, drill, blow.. all has to come out, the spring, the valve... all stuff inside. look twice!


Mount back... no air bubbles for me.



Neccesary tools


Mount back.. and grease those fitting also so no air can get aside.
 
Last edited:

LurkerMike

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Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Location
Atlanta Jawja
TDI
-Whitey: 2000 Jetta GLS, Red: 2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Why is the valve there to start with?

And I don't understand where you are applying grease?
 

DPM

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Mar 16, 2001
Location
Newtownards, N. Ireland
TDI
2019 Rav4 AWD Hybrid, Citroen C4 BlueHDI
Grease will reduce the chances of damaging an "O"ring on assembly. It'll also fill any tiny gaps reducing the chance of airleaks. Historically, the test- technique of choice for finding and curing loss-of-prime issues in older mechanical diesels...

AndyP, drilling that valve out is pretty-well documented.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=68872
 

andypandy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
kristov said:
I was just reading the old article and had a question for the experts.

How much merit is there to Frank M's statement (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1542202&postcount=296)
that drilling out the check valve will cause the thermostatic T on the fuel filter to not function?
That is the valve on the return line.. i have not drilled out that one.

My guessing is that the valve is there to not let the diesel run backwards in the line when changing fuelfilter.
 

Satiro

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
I tried to make this mod this afternoon... my car have older sender than that... is possible do something seemed in old fuel sender?
VW number: 6N0 919 183 A
 

andypandy

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Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
Satiro said:
I tried to make this mod this afternoon... my car have older sender than that... is possible do something seemed in old fuel sender?
VW number: 6N0 919 183 A
Take a hose and try how it feels to blow through it... if it feels "free" there should not be any point to do something.
 

Satiro

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Joined
Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
andypandy said:
Take a hose and try how it feels to blow through it... if it feels "free" there should not be any point to do something.
Ok, thanks a lot!:)
 

kristov

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Joined
Jul 14, 2005
Location
Kitchener
TDI
2000 Jetta
I was trying to do some research on the MAP diode mod but was having trouble finding concise information. I'd like to bump the turbo psi a couple (have .205 nozzles) to hold me off on chipping it.

I understand it's a zener diode, but what voltage and across which pins?

Thanks
 

andypandy

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
kristov said:
I was trying to do some research on the MAP diode mod but was having trouble finding concise information. I'd like to bump the turbo psi a couple (have .205 nozzles) to hold me off on chipping it.

I understand it's a zener diode, but what voltage and across which pins?

Thanks
http://www.geocities.com/tech4tdi/

In serial...
MAP Pin4 -> 3 or 3.3v zener -> potentiometer -> ground

Buy a turboboost gauge indicator/meter if you dont have one.
Be carefull and take notice for boostpeeks.
If real high, search for "daves device"
 

Satiro

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Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
andypandy said:
http://www.geocities.com/tech4tdi/

In serial...
MAP Pin4 -> 3 or 3.3v zener -> potentiometer -> ground

Buy a turboboost gauge indicator/meter if you dont have one.
Be carefull and take notice for boostpeeks.
If real high, search for "daves device"
I don't understand at all...

is necessary a 3.3V zener diode beetween pins... pin4,wich is the other pin?
 

andypandy

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Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
Satiro said:
I don't understand at all...

is necessary a 3.3V zener diode beetween pins... pin4,wich is the other pin?
This guy had taken it so high that he only adjust pressure with "dawes".
I don't.
I adjust the boost with an adjustable resistor... and only cut the higest peeks above 24psi (1.5bar) with the boostvalve.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1221279&postcount=20

i have a 3.3v inline with, i'll think, a 500ohm potentiometer instead of a static resistor
(not remember, it was a while ago)


Readers: this thread is related to "Champagne performance on a beer budget"
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=12165
 
Last edited:

93FryGuy

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Mar 2, 2008
Location
Northwestern OH
TDI
1998 Jetta w/ the 1Z
If I am thinking correctly, a zener diode does not allow voltage through until a certain number is reached, in this case, 3, or 3.3, whichever one you have. This then fools the ECU into thinking it is not getting any voltage from the MAP, which means there is "no pressure" from the turbo (but there really is) and so it allows the turbo to build more pressure until the 3.3V mark is reached, at which point it will be at higher than expected pressure, but that is what you want. But I, too, am having trouble understandin how a zener diode through a potentionmeter to ground will work..... Could you explain??
Thanks
 

andypandy

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Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
93FryGuy said:
If I am thinking correctly, a zener diode does not allow voltage through until a certain number is reached, in this case, 3, or 3.3, whichever one you have. This then fools the ECU into thinking it is not getting any voltage from the MAP, which means there is "no pressure" from the turbo (but there really is) and so it allows the turbo to build more pressure until the 3.3V mark is reached, at which point it will be at higher than expected pressure, but that is what you want. But I, too, am having trouble understandin how a zener diode through a potentionmeter to ground will work..... Could you explain??
Thanks
Yup.. it starts lead at say. 3v. But then you are thinking wrong. it will not shut off the signal as you say.

The signal to ecu is still 3v at that point... but values above that point, the zener starts to slow down the ramp when it starts to lead of voltage through the resistor.. it is not a completily "lead of" (as it has been if it was connected directy to ground)

Now it only make it a little harder for the map sensor to reach the "set pressure limmit" that the Ecu are waiting for before it starts to regulate boost down through the N75 valve.

This means that you get a car that is original to drive to say... 0.5 bar, but when stepping harder at the pedal, you start to brake(to apply resistance) to the out map-signal so it is needed a higher boost signal to give the right value to ecu..
You will have a car that in reality boost 18psi instead of 11psi.
(but ecu still think boost is 11psi)


For an original "non smoking" car this wont do a thing... dont apply the "gasser thinking" where more air means more hp.
Diesels dont work that way.. if your car not smoke today, forget about this, get more fueling first... and when you feel the smoke embarrising.. then you can go for this mod.

Without this, i should smoke alot, as when i have a ramped 2step Evry mod, at high boost levels it setting the evry down from 1200 to around 380ohm.
 
Last edited:

t0m541

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Oct 6, 2007
Location
Teesside, UK
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Mk5 Golf 1.9 110 (originally)
andypandy said:
Have 15 minutes over?
15 minutes you must be in a alternate universe where 15mins=1hour, after fishing out all broken bits of plastic,spring and rubber seal.

Successful task though, all air bubbles now gone from fuel delivery line:D.

Cheers

Tom
 

Satiro

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Aug 3, 2006
Location
Spain
TDI
IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
andypandy said:
Yup.. it starts lead at say. 3v. But then you are thinking wrong. it will not shut off the signal as you say.

The signal to ecu is still 3v at that point... but values above that point, the zener starts to slow down the ramp when it starts to lead of voltage through the resistor.. it is not a completily "lead of" (as it has been if it was connected directy to ground)

Now it only make it a little harder for the map sensor to reach the "set pressure limmit" that the Ecu are waiting for before it starts to regulate boost down through the N75 valve.

This means that you get a car that is original to drive to say... 0.5 bar, but when stepping harder at the pedal, you start to brake(to apply resistance) to the out map-signal so it is needed a higher boost signal to give the right value to ecu..
You will have a car that in reality boost 18psi instead of 11psi.
(but ecu still think boost is 11psi)


For an original "non smoking" car this wont do a thing... dont apply the "gasser thinking" where more air means more hp.
Diesels dont work that way.. if your car not smoke today, forget about this, get more fueling first... and when you feel the smoke embarrising.. then you can go for this mod.

Without this, i should smoke alot, as when i have a ramped 2step Evry mod, at high boost levels it setting the evry down from 1200 to around 380ohm.
i have EVRY at 440Ohm and MAF Mod and boost is higher than stock... i did this MAP mod and my boost is 1.8-1.9!!! why? MAF mod can be the guilty?
 

andypandy

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Location
Sweden Gothenburg
TDI
Golf MK4 -00 110hp++
Satiro said:
i have EVRY at 440Ohm and MAF Mod and boost is higher than stock... i did this MAP mod and my boost is 1.8-1.9!!! why? MAF mod can be the guilty?
Maybe.. but you also have a wastegate turbo right? I have VNT.
There are so many things that can have affect...
Just to tune it down to more appropriate levels then :D
 

Satiro

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IBIZA 1.9TDI 110hp AFN 1998
andypandy said:
Maybe.. but you also have a wastegate turbo right? I have VNT.
There are so many things that can have affect...
Just to tune it down to more appropriate levels then :D
No..i haven't wastegated turbo... i have one VA turbo... how to tune this mod for more appropiate levels? more or less that 100Ohm resistance?
 
Last edited:

WolfTDI

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Venice, FL
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2000 Golf
andypandy sender mod

Thanks for the tip, I just performed the mod as described and will see if there is a difference once the engine is back together. I did try blowing through the valve and there was significant resistance. I am sure there is enough restriction to make the pump work harder than it needs to. The procedure was pretty easy, but you MUST get all the bits out of that fuel pickup. I did get some pretty sweet distance on the valve as it was shot out of the pickup with 125psi--it landed in the driveway of the neighbor across the street :D .
 

memphis tdi

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Dec 11, 2005
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Memphis
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1999.5 Jetta TDI
I did the sender mod. Thursday night, took about 30 min.
Starts quicker, runs smoother and makes more power, great improvement!!!!
 

mannytranny

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Oct 14, 2003
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CA
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02 Jetta (sold, such a great car) '16 Touareg
I did this too.....my car is a late 2002 MY. I popped the lid off of the tank cover and the pn# ended in C. I thought mine was one of these poor parts. So I took it out, punched out the obstruction. And when I was cleaning the sender unit I found a sticker with a pn# ending in H was stuck on the top. Hmmm...

There was still a small obstruction in the tube, but it is not quite like what you guys were reporting. I drilled it out and went for a long drive. The car definitely is more responsive and a bit peppier. I was surprised this little tripod thing caused this.

Oh well. Go for it!
 

NarfBLAST

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Waterdown, Ontario, Canada
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2001 Golf 5MT
blackbodypie said:
Just a question, are you guys bleeding the fuel lines after reassembling?
Good question... I popped the lines off mine the other day and I can't wait to get the fuel level in the tank down lower and find some time now that the weather is warmer to try this mod. I found that when I popped the line off very little fuel escaped, when I popped the lines back on the car started back up right away with no problem. Can't waint to pull and drill!
 

Honeydew

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blackbodypie said:
Just a question, are you guys bleeding the fuel lines after reassembling?
I did not and had no issues with restarting or running. I did let it idle for a couple minutes before driving.
 

WolfTDI

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Nov 26, 2002
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Venice, FL
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2000 Golf
I did this mod while my head was off the engine. I changed the filter as well, so bleeding was necessary. I used a mighty vac to pull fuel up through the new filter and pump and it fired right up. It was easier to pull the fuel this time than other times before the mod.
 
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