And now, for something completely different; Audi 5cyl Turbo Diesel build up!!

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
2.0 TD parts from your aborted build

I've stumbled across this thread in my search to put a 2.0TD into my Quantum Syncro Wagon and wonder if you still have any of the 2.0TD parts.

I've found a 2.0TD which will be shipped to me from Canada in January and would like to (much like you did) start accumulating the necessary known parts, head gaskets, etc. to start refurbishing the engine. I'd be interested in most everything you had for this engine. I'll PM you after sending this.
 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
You will need the drivers side motor mount from the 5 banger gasser to install the 5 banger diesel into the quantum. other than that you just need a shoe horn!
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
jackbombay: He's already got a Quantum Syncro Wagon, which means that it has 5-banger motor mounts from the factory. ;)
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
About the shoehorn.

JackBombay, I plan on removing the front grille and headlight support panel and squeeze it in from the front after removing all the electrical related to the gasser.
 

jackbombay

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 12, 2002
Location
Diesel knows best
TDI
A4 Jetta
jackbombay: He's already got a Quantum Syncro Wagon, which means that it has 5-banger motor mounts from the factory. ;)
I was just letting him know that he does need to hang onto that one motor mount.

There's an Audi 4000 and 5000 gasser in my local Pick n Pull, which mount should I get?
You shouldn't need anything from the junkyard, just hang onto the drivers side motor mount from your gasser.

JackBombay, I plan on removing the front grille and headlight support panel and squeeze it in from the front after removing all the electrical related to the gasser.
that will make it easy :)
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
Thanks again for the tips. Jack, I found your original build thread and reviewed it as well as this one. There's several photos missing from your thread but I get the general idea of what you did. I'm going to start a build thread at the vwdieselparts.com site so I can keep track of what I'm doing and also get your input as I move along. J.D.
 

ecodiesel1

New member
Joined
Jan 29, 2013
Location
Rochester, NY
TDI
97 Jetta
Hi Jamesdean, Hows your project coming? I have one of these to go into my 81 5000 diesel NA. I'd love to stay in the loop on your project and progress.

Also I was looking for Tooef, I was wondering if he still needed a head or if he's moved on from the project. I may have a head for him he can use. And if he's moved on i'd really like the rest of that engine, as I'd like to TD my 4k winter car.

So glad to hear of others running the ol' 2.0 TD. Its hard to find a good group of guys running it!
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
Very interesting timing on your question. I just got the engine running on a stand last night. I haven't figured out the adjustment for idle speed and timing advance but the thing sounded real strong. Sometimes it would idle o.k. at low rpms then sometimes when I would push the acellerator it would come back to a VERY high idle, it sounded like it was about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, so I could only let it run for 20 - 30 seconds.

I had contacted Tooef via PM and he had given up on the project. He still has a box of parts that I may get.

I'll post my updates on the vwdiesel.net site, I'm just slow at getting things uploaded there. Here's the thread as it exists now: http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11768&start=15
 
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bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
OK, I'm confused now. :confused:

Because I'm who everyone calls tooef, and I was interested in this project, but it wasn't mine, and you didn't PM me. Are you talking about GTiTDi?
 

v8volvo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Location
WA
TDI
2001 Jetta
Very interesting timing on your question. I just got the engine running on a stand last night. I haven't figured out the adjustment for idle speed and timing advance but the thing sounded real strong. Sometimes it would idle o.k. at low rpms then sometimes when I would push the acellerator it would come back to a VERY high idle, it sounded like it was about 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, so I could only let it run for 20 - 30 seconds.

I had contacted Tooef via PM and he had given up on the project. He still has a box of parts that I may get.

I'll post my updates on the vwdiesel.net site, I'm just slow at getting things uploaded there. Here's the thread as it exists now: http://www.vwdieselparts.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=11768&start=15
Sounds like a sticky governor plunger in the IP. Often when they sit for a long time the control collar or the gov plunger or both end up having trouble moving easily once you get them going again. Be careful running it while it's that way, since your ability to regulate engine speed is compromised and without the motor hooked to a transmission and clutch in a car, where you can stall it if it begins to run away, your only option if it starts to get away from you is to quickly choke off the air inlet or slice the fuel line. Demands quick thinking, which in the heat of the moment is not always easy.... if you catch it quick enough pulling the wire off the stop solenoid can shut it down, but as I have had the misfortune to discover on more than one occasion, once the engine speed gets beyond a certain point the solenoid can't push its piston down hard enough to block off the fuel flow.

Filling the IP with biodiesel or diesel purge and letting it sit a while can free parts up sometimes, worth a try. Good idea to keep a chunk of wood nearby whenever you run it, ready to block the turbo inlet with if things get out of hand...

Idle speed is adjusted via the throttle lever stop screw on the engine side of the top of the IP, and is also affected by the position of the fuel limiter screw; however if you've got sticky parts inside the pump adjusting idle externally might not give you very good results until after you have got all the internal controls moving happily.

Sounds like fun, good luck getting it together!
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
Good idea on the IP internals

You're right about quick thinking on the shutdown. Fortunately the fuel solenoid wire was close to hand and worked as it should. I'll keep a small block of wood near the turbo inlet in case that doesn't work. I was just going to put my hand over it, but that is obviously a bad idea when it's turning that fast.

I did run a bunch of ATF through the pump prior to firing it up but I think you're right that there's some gunk in there. (I had all the injectors out and just used the starter to spin it over to prime the pump and move fuel through the system.) Today I'm going to remove the lower small cover and see what drains out. I'm talking about the cover with the 2 screws that cover the advance mechanism on the 1.6 pumps. If there's any dirty water I can force it out with air, or just let it drain out. I will get some diesel purge and put it in after.

It did run much more consistently yesterday. I created a temporary cooling system so I could run it for longer periods (as long as I want) and it ran good and idled satisfactorily most of the time. I did adjust the external idle screw. The throttle linkage was also bent down and was just touching the manual shut off valve so I think it was sticking a little there also. Any rpm surges were much milder and I only had to shut it down once when it stuck at about 1/3 throttle.

As a bonus, I finally understand the coolant flow and the function of the thermostat that closes off the block port once the engine warms up. I marvel at the engineering on these engines! As the thermostat opens, the back end of the thermostat closes the water port on the flow coming out of the head at that port. Once fully opened the water flow through the head then all flows out the back of the head/block.
 

v8volvo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Location
WA
TDI
2001 Jetta
Yeah, it is an interesting setup. The only major drawback to it that I am not impressed by is that the thermostat's location does not ensure that it always sees the hottest coolant in the engine, and the temp of the coolant that does flow past it is subject to a certain amount of variation based on how hard you are running the heater, even while coolant temp in the engine itself is constant. Most of the coolant that runs by the t-stat wax pellet has first passed through an external circuit somewhere (oil cooler, cold start thermostat, heater core) so not only is there some degree of temperature differential versus the coolant in the cylinder head, that differential is not constant, depending on other outside factors. Meanwhile, the sender for the temp gauge is mounted right in the end of the cylinder head, not far from the #1 prechamber, which means it is measuring cylinder head temp pretty directly, but is far away from the t-stat..... resulting in considerable fluctuation of the coolant temp in the cylinder head and corresponding fluctuation of the reading of the temp gauge, especially when the engine is running under heavy load.

The 2.0L five and 2.4L six-cylinder motors have a particular tendency towards headgasket failure and head warpage, which to me indicates a problem with temperature control.... mainly, IMO, that the coolant in the head may be considerably (and variably) hotter than the coolant reaching the thermostat. A slightly cooler-than-stock thermostat seems to go a long way towards stabilizing running temp on these units. An 87c thermostat is OK if that's where the whole engine is running, but if the coolant in the head is 20c hotter than that, can lead to trouble... After having done four 2.4L headgaskets in the past year I have started putting in a Wahler 80c tstat in every one that I work on, seems to make no difference in heat output or gauge reading but keeps the needle from climbing on hills. YMMV
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
I agree with your observations. Running the 80C thermostat will help but there's still a large temperature variation within the system. Here's a link to "Herman's" engine rebuild page that shows how he made a water outlet port on the back of the head. He removed the tapped plug for the water temp sender to make the outlet: http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02#5041247187197938770. He drilled and tapped some mounting holes then fabbed an elbow for the pipe connection here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02#5041246113456114738.
If you look at the rest of his blog you can see he has a machine shop that few have, but he's done a lot of custom work to the engine that will definitely improve the cooling. My question is: where does he connect the flow from the back of the head? It seems it would be better to run it right into the upper radiator so that after the system heats up and the thermostat opens (and the thermostat closes the port from the head) the flow would be forced into the radiator.

He also made an engine prelube pump to circulate oil throughout the engine prior to startup here: http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02#5044575418389488114. That's a great idea but even after reading the text I don't understand how he did it. His description of the pump is near the bottom of this page: http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
 
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v8volvo

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2004
Location
WA
TDI
2001 Jetta
I agree with your observations. Running the 80C thermostat will help but there's still a large temperature variation within the system. Here's a link to "Herman's" engine rebuild page that shows how he made a water outlet port on the back of the head. He removed the tapped plug for the water temp sender to make the outlet: http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02#5041247187197938770. He drilled and tapped some mounting holes then fabbed an elbow for the pipe connection here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02#5041246113456114738.
If you look at the rest of his blog you can see he has a machine shop that few have, but he's done a lot of custom work to the engine that will definitely improve the cooling. My question is: where does he connect the flow from the back of the head? It seems it would be better to run it right into the upper radiator so that after the system heats up and the thermostat opens (and the thermostat closes the port from the head) the flow would be forced into the radiator.
D24T motors already have a connection identical to that on the back of the head, it feeds the oil cooler circuit. Substituting the oil-to-water cooler sandwich plate for an oil-to-air cooler and plate (e.g. Volvo turbo gasser plate slides right on) and running a hose direct from that port to the oil cooler return above the t-stat might promote more consistent/accurate/rapid thermostat response by blowing hot coolant of that reflects cyl head temp on a stable basis right onto the t-stat wax pellet might help stabilize temp. Possible that was the idea this builder was working with, hard to tell, Vanagon owners with dual heaters living in cold climates often have to make provisions like these in cases where heater return coolant passes by the t-stat (as with this motor as well as the Subaru swaps) since the dual cores in cold weather are able to extract enough heat from the coolant that it causes overheating when the t-stat is "tricked" into closing on a hot engine.

Running it to the rad is not a bad idea either but wouldn't amount to much more than adding a second upper rad hose, which is already big enough, insufficient throughput in the rad hoses is not the problem here IMO, rather a potential for incorrect thermostat response to engine temp. My approach would probably be to move to a proper oil cooler and then block off that port, or use a small diameter hose to blow back on the t-stat. Hard to guess what this guy's aim was with the big connection back there if it wasn't one of those two possibilities, I would be interested to know more....
 

5+5 4000

New member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
Audi VW Volvo D20T D24T 1.6&1.5D Peugeot XD2 Isuzu 1.8D
2.0 5 cylinder diesel

I did this same swap with my 5+5 years ago. It's a pretty straight forward job but, you may have problems with the passenger side tie rod hitting the vacuum pump.

Good Luck!
 

GTiTDi

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Location
3 Spruce st Wareham, gateway to Cape Cod Massachus
TDI
91 GTDI,'02 Jetta wagon ALH swap, '99 Eurovan, '79 Audi Fox 1.6TD, '03 GTI 1.8T rally car
wow I am amazed this thread lives on...I gave up on this project ages ago...still have the 2.0TD stuff up for grabs if there is any interest..I am sure they want it out of the shop where i used to work
 

5+5 4000

New member
Joined
May 6, 2013
Location
ohio
TDI
Audi VW Volvo D20T D24T 1.6&1.5D Peugeot XD2 Isuzu 1.8D
I have two extra 2.0td already. Wouldn't mind having the car.
 

bassman5066

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 8, 2011
Location
Honey Brook PA
TDI
2011 Golf 2 Door TDI (sold back for Dieselgate), 91 Golf 4 Door with 1Z swap
wow I am amazed this thread lives on...I gave up on this project ages ago...still have the 2.0TD stuff up for grabs if there is any interest..I am sure they want it out of the shop where i used to work
I would take it if i had a car to shoehorn it into. I suppose its a bit too long to fit in a mk2 VW?
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
2.0 5 cylinder turbo diesel

I'm finally going to start my 2.0TD into a 1987 Quantum Syncro Wagon (QSW) project and will begin a new thread after getting started and taking some pictures this weekend.

I'm going to send GTiTDi a PM and see if he still has any spare parts leftover from this project.

If anyone else has some 2.0TD parts or even a spare engine let me know.

Right now I'm looking for an alternator bracket and alternator that fits the passenger side of the 2.0TD off an Audi 5000 or Audi 100. I need to move the alternator from the driver's side as currently situated in the QSW to make room for a bigger oil cooler and different larger radiator setup, possibly even an inter-cooler.
 

BlackBox

New member
Joined
May 25, 2020
Location
Utah
TDI
2.0 TD
Hey, glad to see some 2.0 TD love. This is great! I've been down a similar road before: http://vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php/topic,25252.0.html, so let me know if I can help.
I hope to do another swap in the future, just haven't find the right candidate yet.
I've got quite a few spare parts, so shout out if you need anything. (Block, crank, cam, 155 bar injectors, injector lines, oil pump, etc.) Good luck!
 

jamesdean

Member
Joined
May 10, 2006
Location
Reno, Nevada
TDI
'97 Passat; '10 Touareg
Excellent thread on your build.
I read it about a month ago and will go through it again this evening.
You did a lot of custom work on your's that's very impressive.
Thanks to you I'm going to look for that 20V Turbo oil pan, there's a 20V Turbo Audi 200 in my local junkyard, excellent idea.
I also like the glow plug relay.
I've got the same intercooler but not sure how it's going to fit, the QSW is a lot tighter and I've got to put in the secondary radiator. One of my biggest concerns is getting enough cooling capacity.

I did my build thread on the D24T site here:

https://www.d24t.com/showthread.php?t=2033
 
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