And now, for something completely different; Audi 5cyl Turbo Diesel build up!!

v8volvo

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The standard 4cyl cam locking tool (1.6, AHU etc) works fine on the 2.0L and 2.4L motors. Just remove the two rear valve cover studs. No need to modify the tool. The special Volvo locking tool has its "ears" slightly farther apart so that they clear the shoulders on those rear studs but that is the only difference. Depth and thickness are the same. The studs are easy to zip out.

Make sure you get enough torque on that front crank bolt. There's a reason that wrench extension bar is so long. Many of these engines wrecked by a front bolt not quite tight enough. Aside from the huge fastener torque there is not much that keeps that crank sprocket on there.

Smart plan to measure piston protrusion, you don't want the headgasket any thicker than it has to be. Many of these were put together with too thick a gasket straight from the factory. Too much gasket and they are quickly way down on off-boost pep and hard to start when warm. Layered steel headgaskets are available for the 2.4L and worth using. Haven't ever tried to find one for a five.

Those notches on the IP and its bracket are worth paying attention to -- be sure to line the pump up with the bracket, or even rotated towards the outside of it, when reassembling. The pump sits tighter against the motor on the fives and sixes than it does on the fours, not a problem with the NA motors, but on the turbos the aneroid on the top of the pump is tall and wide enough that if the pump is rotated inward towards the engine beyond those marks the rear two injectors become impossible to remove. No fun to have to retime the motor just so that you can get a couple of injectors out. Best way to set timing on these is by rotating the rear cam sprocket in relation to the cam, rather than changing the position of the pump a la 1.6/1z/ahu. Much faster and easier and allows you to put the pump in exactly the place you want it while leaving the timing as a separate concern.

While you are there good idea as well to check the thermostatic cold start device before getting it on the road, pretty good guarantee it is inop and when they fail, they fail in the cold (advanced) position and stick there even when the engine is warm -- not what you want if you're hoping to have the motor last. Don't forget to disengage it and spin the pump a few times before setting static timing, or it won't run too good!

Nice build, should be fun! I have never seen one with that rear-mounted vacuum pump. Looks like a better setup than the cam-driven type...
 

bhtooefr

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069103383CQ for a new 2-hole gasket (don't know if it's steel or not), 069103383DB for a new 3-hole, for what it's worth.

Head bolts are the same as every 1982-2003 US-spec VW diesel, there's just 2 more of them due to the additional cylinder.
 

GTiTDi

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Nice build, should be fun! I have never seen one with that rear-mounted vacuum pump. Looks like a better setup than the cam-driven type...
It is definitely a better Vacuum pump since it is a vane-style pump, but it still runs off the camshaft (via a belt rather than a cam lobe)

Thanks very much for your advice though! It will be heeded!
I was told to replace that front crank bolt by a wise old guru!
Can I eliminate the thermostatic cold start advance in favor of a cable?

069103383CQ for a new 2-hole gasket (don't know if it's steel or not), 069103383DB for a new 3-hole, for what it's worth.
Head bolts are the same as every 1982-2003 US-spec VW diesel, there's just 2 more of them due to the additional cylinder.
Thanks for the part numbers Tooef!

Gotta love TDI club. Not even a TDI and people are still helpful! :)
 

v8volvo

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Right, I would be happier with the vane pump though, the piston-type pumps that run off the cam lobe in the middle of the head are troublesome. :rolleyes:

No reason to replace the crank sprocket bolt that I can see unless it is damaged, it's not a single-use fastener like a TDI has. Perhaps would be worth doing on a very high mileage motor where the bolt had been removed and reinstalled many times during multiple belt changes, but I suspect your motor has only ever had a belt put on it once so far. Belt interval for these motors is 75k, higher than the 60k the 4cyls were rated for (until ALH era).

The cold start device can be eliminated but the way the mechanism works against the roller cage inside the pump, it has much less mechanical advantage than the cable-operated 4cyl pumps have for their manual lever. The Audi/Volvo system uses big springs to apply the advance and then the thermostat to back them off. Try working that lever with your hand and you'll see it is difficult. You would need a strong, heavy cable to operate it manually, and it doesn't have a way of being locked onto the advanced position like an old Rabbit does either. Theoretically possible to retrofit a cable system but it doesn't lend itself to it. If you really wanted to put a cable on, I would get a cheap spare 1.6L pump and retrofit its entire cold start advance mechanism (which works by shifting the advance piston in the bottom of the pump housing, rather than hitting the roller cage with a ball stud sticking in from the side). Then putting a cable on is a more reasonable proposition, though you would lose the cold fast idle function that comes with the thermostatic system too. The automatic setup is nice when it is working. If you wanted to fix back to proper original function, which would likely be much easier/simpler/more elegant than modifying it, the thermostat is replaceable although supply of new ones seems to have gotten thin in the last few years. Bosch part # 1 467 202 302, until recently any Bosch shop had them on the shelf, but last time I had a car show up needing one the local place was out of stock and new ones were backordered. In a pinch you can still get them from the Volvo stealer as well (with Volvo markup). I have the Volvo p/n somewhere if you if you are in a bind. Changing the t-stat is a little tricky because of the heavy spring pressure inside the housing, but doable if you are careful with your method. Of course, don't bother taking it apart until you know it's broken...

tooefer, looks like those numbers are for a fiber HG unless you know otherwise? My reinz listings show no metal gaskets available for the 2.0L five, though several different options for the 2.4L.... the six seems to enjoy slightly better parts support at this point than the five does, perhaps because they were used in LT vans for quite a while longer, or because the Volvos they were sold in didn't rust away as easily as Audis and VW's did during that time.... might not be difficult to adapt a MLS gasket for a later Canadian Eurovan 2.4L 5cyl motor to it, though, similar to using an AAZ gasket in a 1.6. The gaskets for the later (hydraulic) motors should make little functional difference, if the gasket has an additional hole for oil feed or drain but the block/head have no corresponding holes, you can work around it. On the six the updated type MLS gasket which is original equipment on the late production hydraulic motors can (and should) be used without modification in place of the OE fiber gasket on the early mechanical motors as well.. I suspect the same is true of the five though don't quote me on it until you verify for yourself. :p The metal gasket is worth having if increased boost and fuel are on your agenda.
 
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bhtooefr

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Yeah, I believe those are fiber.

It'd be interesting to see if the hydro gasket will work on a non-hydro engine, I was previously under the impression that it would not (although I know more about the 1.6s than the 2.0/2.4s).

Also, what about the cold start advance mechanism as used in the 1986.5+ 1.6s? That one did have cold fast idle.
 
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GTiTDi

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Well it looks like this project may have already come to its conclusion, if not indefinitely postponed. I removed the cylinder head this morning and found cracks between the valves on every cylinder. A couple of the cracks are big enough to accept my fingernail. I brought the head to my buddies machine shop and they are going to pressure test it. They say not to be too discouraged and that if it tests ok we can peen the cracks over and run it, but I am still kind of bummed out nonetheless. Having the valve seats removed to have the cracks welded is another option, but requiring more monetary input than I am willing to give.
 

Ski in NC

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On my old 1.6NA, I had a head bolt pop while driving. Heard it and slowed before engine got hot. Pulled head and every hole had cracks between seats. Bummed, to say the least. Talked to a local vw guy, he said most were like that and just slap the head back on. I did, and drove it another 200kmile without trouble.

Maybe Frank can offer guidance...
 

GTiTDi

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Talked to a local vw guy, he said most were like that and just slap the head back on. I did, and drove it another 200kmile without trouble.
This is exactly what the machine shop guys told me...they specialize in American muscle but also VW/AUDI, have built some seriously powerful 20V 5cylinders...They told me we will know if it is useable once it is tested.
 

bhtooefr

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My understanding is, as long as the cracks don't extend into the valve seats, that's normal and acceptable.

Edit: VW's spec:

Mk2 Bentley said:
Cylinder heads with small, fine cracks between valve seats are usable provided the cracks are not more than 0.5 mm (.02 in.) wide.
 
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Ski in NC

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If I remember right, mine were like 0.040" wide, and edges ramped up a bit. But no cracks were visible in exh or intake ports adjacent to valve seat. If cracks extended that far, there would be a path for compression leak and obviously be junk at that point.
 

jackbombay

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The only tool I don't have is the cam lock bar for this engine.
Huh, when I had my Audi 2.0 TD my cam lock tool worked, I do have 2, one for IDIs and one for my TDI, I'm not sure which one I used, but I remember I didn't have to to fab/modify either of my cam lock tools or remove studs to lock the cam.


I've never read of the cracks between valves causing any problems, fwiw.
 

GTiTDi

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If I remember right, mine were like 0.040" wide, and edges ramped up a bit. But no cracks were visible in exh or intake ports adjacent to valve seat. If cracks extended that far, there would be a path for compression leak and obviously be junk at that point.
Yeah they do ramp up a bit too...hoping it is serviceable
Huh, when I had my Audi 2.0 TD my cam lock tool worked, I do have 2, one for IDIs and one for my TDI, I'm not sure which one I used, but I remember I didn't have to to fab/modify either of my cam lock tools or remove studs to lock the cam.
I've never read of the cracks between valves causing any problems, fwiw.
I had to remove the two rear most studs for my cam lock tool to fit, which fits my TDI as well. biggest difference is I need way more shims to center it on the audi head, otherwise works fine. I was told the tool meant for the D24 and 2.0TD was a bit wider so you didn't need to remove the studs.
 

saab9turbo

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Any news? Head may be available in europe, the 2.4 mtd was fitted to the early audi 100(1985-1994) only seen one here in norway, but maybe some in a breakers yard somewhere, check in germany:) wish i had that car:p

Hope you will be able to fix it:)
 

GTiTDi

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Any news? Head may be available in europe, the 2.4 mtd was fitted to the early audi 100(1985-1994) only seen one here in norway, but maybe some in a breakers yard somewhere, check in germany:) wish i had that car:p

Hope you will be able to fix it:)
I am still waiting on word from the machine shop. I hope I am able to fix it too.
 

bhtooefr

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The problem with the 2.4 head is it's hydraulic lifters, meaning you also need the matching block.

At which point, might as well go get a whole 2.4 5-cyl NA out of a Canadian T4 Eurovan, and turbo it.
 

GTiTDi

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The problem with the 2.4 head is it's hydraulic lifters, meaning you also need the matching block.
At which point, might as well go get a whole 2.4 5-cyl NA out of a Canadian T4 Eurovan, and turbo it.
Tooef, how you catalog all that information is beyond my comprehension!:eek:
 

GTiTDi

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Well, unfortunately one of those cracks extends well below the valve seats and leaks between the two ports. Also the pre-chambers are cracked, and one is really loose. Oh well, on to bigger and better things.

10/11: message from my machinist buddy, coolant bubbling through crack between ports. Ugh it is total junk.

Anyone have a head they want to part with? :D
 
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GTiTDi

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well I would still like to make this Audi diesel powered, and would like to drop a 1.9 in it...but the question is does anyone make an adapter plate to bolt a 4 cylinder to the 5 cylinder bell housing...I would rather not import a 4cylinder 016 from Europe...
 

bhtooefr

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The problem I'm thinking of is that everything is spaced around not having an adapter plate.

You could always switch to Torsen, and get an 012 (I think that's what it is, anyway) out of a B5 V6 gasser 4Mo or something...
 

jackbombay

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Well, unfortunately one of those cracks extends well below the valve seats and leaks between the two ports. Also the pre-chambers are cracked, and one is really loose. Oh well, on to bigger and better things.
I have yet to have any experience with an IDI that was good, if it makes you feel any better.
 

bhtooefr

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For what it's worth, the head is part number 069103351M.

Dropped on 2000-06-01, no replacement.

Impex claims to possibly be able to find it for $1461.10.

On the European side of ETKA, 069103265EX is listed as a head part number - so that's the reman part that isn't showing up on the US side. It was dropped 2004-03-01 without replacement. Impex lists that as $1312.53 plus $500 core charge, and may be able to get that as well. (Interestingly, they don't list that it's a Euro part.)

Edit: Also, on the C3 cars in Europe, they continued using engine code DE. There's a VIN split here on heads, though...

069103265EX is a head with valves and camshaft, for VINs through 1985, so the same as the C2 cars.
For just a casting, 069103351S is listed for that VIN split. Not showing up on Impex, though, and dropped 1998-07-31.

There's also two other parts listed, although I don't think they're suitable (being 1986+ - which indicates to me a change to hydro lifters):
069103351AD for a casting (dropped 2005-08-01, no direct replacement, but two parts are listed as a "solution")
069103265GX for a head with valves and camshaft (dropped 2005-07-01), also the first solution for the 351AD part

The other "solution" for the 351AD part is 069103265HX, another head with valves and camshaft, dropped 2007-08-01.
 
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GTiTDi

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For what it's worth, the head is part number 069103351M.
Dropped on 2000-06-01, no replacement.
Impex claims to possibly be able to find it for $1461.10.
On the European side of ETKA, 069103265EX is listed as a head part number - so that's the reman part that isn't showing up on the US side. It was dropped 2004-03-01 without replacement. Impex lists that as $1312.53 plus $500 core charge, and may be able to get that as well. (Interestingly, they don't list that it's a Euro part.)
Edit: Also, on the C3 cars in Europe, they continued using engine code DE. There's a VIN split here on heads, though...
069103265EX is a head with valves and camshaft, for VINs through 1985, so the same as the C2 cars.
For just a casting, 069103351S is listed for that VIN split. Not showing up on Impex, though, and dropped 1998-07-31.
There's also two other parts listed, although I don't think they're suitable (being 1986+ - which indicates to me a change to hydro lifters):
069103351AD for a casting (dropped 2005-08-01, no direct replacement, but two parts are listed as a "solution")
069103265GX for a head with valves and camshaft (dropped 2005-07-01), also the first solution for the 351AD part
The other "solution" for the 351AD part is 069103265HX, another head with valves and camshaft, dropped 2007-08-01.
Thanks for the research Tooef. I am checking Car-part.com for one as well.
 

burpod

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although it will likely be still too expensive, if you actually call 1stvw and talk to zeb with those part numbers, they might be available through classic parts in germany. sometimes, at least with some of the smaller things i've ordered, the prices have been much lower than i had expected!
 

bhtooefr

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Also, the three parts that I mentioned that are 1986+, they are hydro lifters (the lifter shim isn't applicable to the model, and the lifters are the same part as the 12v VR6), so not suitable for your engine.

That said, I wonder if you could put solid lifters in a hydro lifter head, and run it as a solid lifter head... that'd probably be a better question for vwdiesel.net, though. And, they may not know, because both solid and hydro heads are readily available for 1.6s.

Another possible route would be to try European-market Volvo parts sources, for a Volvo 740 D20T.
 

jackbombay

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Has the bottom end been THOROUGHLY inspected to ensure that spending the money on a head is not a waste of money?

If your luck with IDIs is anything like mine the bottom end will be as bad or worse than the head.
 

GTiTDi

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Has the bottom end been THOROUGHLY inspected to ensure that spending the money on a head is not a waste of money?

If your luck with IDIs is anything like mine the bottom end will be as bad or worse than the head.
This is what I will do before proceeding too much more. I am definitely bummed about this, glad I didn't spend too much money on it so far.

I appreciate everyone's help and input on this project. I hope you guys aren't as discouraged as I am.
 

quantum_tdi

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Just spotted this thread. Been off for a long time and noticed v8volvo had posted. I threatened to put one of these in my Quantum Syncro before I found a '96 B4V... all I ever found was a NA 5-cyl that couldn't have gotten out of its own way so then I moved on to the idea of the Syncro with a TDI in it. That idea quickly died when my backup Jetta died and I got sick of working on cars in the midwest winter.

Sorry to see the engine didn't work out. Would have been fun to see!
 
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