Amsoil vs. Delvac 1

[WOOCHOW]

At 10,000 miles I swithched to the Amsoil 5w-30 series III oil at $32.00 a gallon. Oil consumption and noise was greatly reduced from what the dealer had been using.(15w-40 fossil oil). Although it probably wasn't necessary, I changed the oil at 15,000 miles and used Delvac 1 at $17.50 a gallon. The noise is unchanged from th Amsoil
but the car has not consumed any oil in the past 3,000 miles. I believe Delvac 1 is the way to go in the cooler months. Availability is a problem with Delvac 1 however. I called my nearest Mobil lubricant distributor (80 miles away) and picked up two cases. For the price, it is a bargain. During the summer months I will switch to Red Line synthetic diesel oil in 15w-40 and probaly leave it in for the entire summer. I drive about 700 miles a week. Hope this helps.

 

[Olli]

Woochow,

Thanks for the info. Why change from 5w40(Delvac1) to 15w40 for the summer months? Both oils are 40 at high temp. Do you just happen to have some 15w40 Redline that needs to get used up?

I didn't realize that Delvac1 was nearly half the price of the Amsoil. I'll call Mobil to findout the nearest distributor. If anyone is interested Mobil's number is 800 662 4525.

Olli

 

[WOOCHOW]

That is the situation Olli, I have a case of Red Line as well as a case of something called "Royal Purple Longrider" (sounds like a condom) to use up, otherwise I would probably use Delvac 1 year round. I was able to locate my nearest Mobil distributor in the trusty Yellow Pages.

 

[grebe]

Woochow,
I've been using Delvac 1 for about a month. It takes about 10 seconds for the lifters to quit "rattling" when the engine is started after sitting overnight in the 15 degree Minnesota weather.

How's the Amsoil for cold weather starting?

 

[colucci]

I switched to Amsoil 10W-30 Synthetic this winter (MPLS, MN) and definitely noticed a difference during cold starts. The engine rattled much less than with VW's Castrol Syntec and was ready to drive in a few seconds even at -10 F. The dealer (why do I have to feel like I'm making a drug deal buying this oil?) said I'd also get better mileage. I haven't noticed a thing. One more thing, I burn much less oil now - I'm down maybe 8 oz since I changed oil 4500 miles ago. This stuff cost me $21.40/gallon.

I was planning on going into next winter (>10,000 miles on the oil) and just changing the filter. When I do that I'll have to add more oil. Is there anything wrong with mixing oil types - say adding a quart of synthetic blend to purely synthetic? Thanks.

D'nardo

 

[grebe]

Oops, the URL is should be:
www.api.org/programs_services/quality/oilchart.htm

 

[Olli]

Grebe,

I did not mention the newest CH-4 rating since I don't know of any oils that carry the CH-4. But as you know, that info is at the API site. I just felt that it was relavent to reiterate the ratings as specified (currently) by VW.

Olli

 

[Switca]

I asked the folks at Mobil about putting Delvac in a TDI. Here's their response.
=-=-==-=
Thank you for contacting Mobil.

Check your owners manual for weight viscosities and API ratings, but you
should be able to use it in that application. If the owners manual just
calls for a CF API rated motor oil, you can use Mobil 1. If you would
like to receive literature on Delvac 1 or other Mobil products, please
call 1-800-ASKMOBIL or send us your complete mailing information.

If you have any additional questions, you may contact us at our E-mail
address: lubes@ffx.mobil.com or by phone at 1-800-ASKMOBIL.

 

[Sparky]

I just called the 1-800 ASK Mobil, and the person that I spoke to stated Delvac 1 (synthetic) comes in only one vescosity, 5W-40. The price is around $24 a gallon and he did not recommend extended drain intervals like the "Big Rigs" use. The problem was finding it at a distributor that is at a reasonable distance. For the price of the filters, oil, and other required maintenance, this car had better last 300K miles!

 

[Peter Cheuk]

I emailed Mobil Corp once before and got a similar response. It's called CYA. If he said to go ahead with the extended drain interval and something happened to your motor, they can be liable. Basically, if you do it (long drain intervals), you're on your own. In which case I'd say get the best oil you can afford and replace the oil filter regularly.

 

[clary]

I am considering installing a Amsoil bypass oil filter but no of no-one who uses one. Does any one on this site use one of these devices? I really want to know if this little gadget is, over the life of the car (which has a gaoline engine)is worth it.

------------------
OZO

 

[clary]

So, anyone with experience with the Amsoil bypass oil filter? Is one worth the purchase?

 

[OEB]

LOOKS LIKE YOU GUYS GOT A LITTLE SIDETRACKED>>>>>

Woochow, I would NEVER trust anything in my diesel except a full syhnthetic, even in the summer time! My favorite being Delvac 1, it's worth every mile of a road trip to aquire the ever elusive silver bottle. Amsoil is way friggin expensive and I would have to order it in da mail (Florida sucks for full syns). By chance, the only mobil 1 distributer in town is 30 miutes away. 80 bucks a case. Nice. Down with the dino!!

 

[jettajim]

Hey OEB, you must have wiped the spider webs off of this post--it's 3 years old!

Jim

 

[Route 66]

Delvac 1 has a better crud retardent mix and stops the build up of soot in the engine.

 

[Route 66]

Delvac 1 has a good TBN.

 

[Mark Mellblom]

I located Delvac-1 in Virginia Beach VA at Papco Oil 24.84/gal in a 4 gal case. (757)499-5977

I talked with my dealer, Checkered Flag VW and they said they would have no problem with owner provided oil during scheduled maint. intervals.

Mark Mellblom
My Life with TDIs

 

[FL70CAT]

Please only post for sale items in the For Sale section.

>>>>>>>My message has been DELETED!!

[ May 11, 2002, 05:36: Message edited by: FL70CAT ]

 

[Drivbiwire]

The problem is the Series 3000 or 5w30 is not the correct viscocity. It will result in extreme wear in the valvetrain resulting in a .001" of removal every 30,000 miles. Compared to a user that runs a 5w40 they have only shown .0002" in 115,000 miles thats a very significant reduction in wear no matter how you cut it.

If you ask me your a fool if you run anything less than an Xw40 in a TDI motor. I have seen enough wear in these motors as a result of this disregard for "viscocity" to say its not worth it. The reason is the valve train does not use any friction reduction technology like the newer engines. The newer engines are designed to operate on the thinner oils that have to lubricate devices such as roller rockers etc. The TDI does not have these and relies entirely on the oil to prevent metal to metal contact of the very high pressure areas such as lifter to lobe contact areas.

If you have to use Amsoil diesel oils stick with the 10w40 or 15w40 but NEVER run the 5w30 it's simply the wrong oil for this application. VW does not call for its use it simnply states that if you need to add oil you can use small amounts of 5w30 as a "top-off" but do not fill the whole sump with the stuff.

I suggest if you have been running a 5w30 or 0w30 to have a test done to see just how well your engine is "not" holding up. The test is called a "Ferrography" test. It will look for wear metals and identify the type of viscocity break down that is occuring if any at all. When they return the results it should include pictures of the metal particles found.

An oil analysis that shows no or normal wear will still have trace metals that are not picked up by the conventional oil sample test. By analyzing the trace metals and getting a metal count they can determine how well your oil is holding up in the engine. This test goes beyond oil analysis and will give you the last word in what is actually going on in the motor whithout having to do a complete tear down.

I am having a sample done on my car this week so if anyone is interested to compare your 5w30/0w30 engine against mine bring it on and be ready for a shock

The test does cost a few dollars more but its something you should only have to do every 100,000 miles.

DB

Just to add my sample will be taken at 102,000 miles, with 13,000 miles on the oil just to get the soot good an high and see if there is any break down of the oil

[ May 10, 2002, 07:32: Message edited by: Drivbiwire ]

 

[FL70CAT]

I use the 15W-40 in everything, even my gas motors as it is also gas engine certified.
The thinner oils might be what modern cars are switching to but I feel if you just stick with a 15W-40 Multi cert oil, you can use it in everything and not be concerned about the oil being "too thin".

At $16 a gallon for Synthetic Amsoil, that's pretty hard to beat.
I order it by the 55gal drum and it only costs about $3.25 a quart(US)!!

 

[20IndigoBlue02]

Many diesel mechanics (tractor trailer guys) recommend to sticking with one brand only. Though they usually carry only Rotella & Delvac, because a good population of tractor trailer drivers use either one of the two brands.

 

[GANZGUT]

Nothing like resurrecting a 3 year old post. . .

Remember, if availablility is a problem, CAT DEO 5w-40 is repackaged Delvac1, and can be purchased from Caterpillar dealers. It (CAT/Delvac1) is an excellent oil, I've used it for the past winter and will continue to use it. After 20K miles, it's an excellent product for the TDI and you can't go wrong.

I think Pete is on to something when he questions the use of a 30 weight oil. I used Amsoil 5W-30 when I bought my car as it was in the winter, then switched over to Amsoil 15W-40 the following spring. The engine's oil consumption was markedly less with the 40 weight stuff. It is even less with this Delvac1/Cat oil. I maybe go through 3-4 ounces every 1500-2000 miles or so, more if I get the RPM's above 3K. (My engine now has 115K miles on it.) It used much much more of that Amsoil 5W-30, and given the added cost over their 15W-40, it isn't worth it.

I think Amsoil 5W-30, while an excellent oil, is just not suitable for use in the TDI. I wish they made a 5W-40 since I have winter for 6 months out of the year. (Snowed here yesterday, 2 days before the walleye opener. . .

)

 

[bones]

I have been using the Amsoil 15W-40 for about 40k now. I guess I am lucky. There is a small shop here and the owner is an Amsoil dealer and he sells it too me for $20.00 a gallon AND for a whole $5.00 will change the oil and filter!!!!

I try to buy a few filters and keep'em on hand and have a couple of bottles of the Amsoil on hand to top off.
So, for about $35.00 ( oil, filter and labor) I can get a complete oil change. Not too bad!!!

 

[dbbrowne]

clary
I had the bypass sytem on my dually and loved it! I would use one on my NB but dont know of a place to put it!

Drivbiwire
I just changed my oil to the amsoil series 3000 5w30 right after I purchased my used 2000 NB. Then I get on this forum and find the info you have posted and am very interested.

Would you say i would be safe to run the 5w30 through the remainder of this interval and then go with the 15w40 I used before in my detroit?
Your opinion is carries weight!

I found the typical inspection data on the series 3000 5w30 and the 15w40 heavy duty diesel and marine oil as well as delvac 1 and listed them below.
According to there chart (maybe sales hype) the amsoil 5w30 has about half the wear scar as the delvac 1 5w40 is this right? Also the amsoil 5w 30 seems to have a Higher VI (Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better.)Not that that is the main thing to look at here but it is one of the more important things to look at in oil.
I have an article called "More than you ever wanted to know about motor oil" That I have learned a ton about oils with, I would be happy to send it to anyone who wants it, It was wrote by Ed Hackett and this cat knows oil. also notice the specs listed by both companies, amsoil list a VW spec but delvac doesnt. Is this the spec for the TDI?


http://www.amsoil.com/products/hdd.html

Recommended for Applications Requiring the Following Specifications:

API SL, SJ, SH, CH-4, CF-2, CF
EMA LRG-1
Global DHD-1
Cummins CES 20076, 20077
Mack EO-M, EO-M+
Detroit Diesel 7SE270
Volvo VDS, VDS-2
MTU Type 2
MAN 271, M3275
Scania LDF
DB 228.2, 228.3, 229.1, 229.3
ILSAC GF-3, GF-2
Chrysler MS6395J
Ford WSS M2C-153G, M2C-171C
GM 4718, 9986137
VW 502.00, 505.00
ACEA A-2, A-3, B-2, B-3, E-2, E-3, E-5
Allison C-4


TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

Revised 6/01

AMSOIL Series 3000 Synthetic 5W-30 Heavy-Duty Diesel Oil (HDD)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
11.4

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
66.5

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
175

Cold Crank Simulator Apparent Viscosity @ -25°C, cP (ASTM D 2602)
6131

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)
-51 (-60)

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
230 (446)

Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92) 250 (482)

Noack Volatility (DIN 51581) 250°C for 1 hour, % weight loss 8.6

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity, cP, 150°C, 1.0 x 106 s-1 (ASTM D-4683) >3.5

Four-Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172: 40kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hr) Scar diameter, mm 0.39

Total Base Number >12

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES

AMSOIL Synthetic SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil (AME)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
15.5

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
100.2

Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
164

CCS Viscosity @ -20°C, cP (ASTM D 2602)
3600

Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97)
-44 (-47)

Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
234 (453)

Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D-4172 B: 40 kg, 75°C, 1200 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm)
0.35

Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (ASTM D-5800) 6.7

High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity cP, 150°C, 1.0 X 106 s.-1, (ASTM D 4683),
>4.1

Total Base Number
>12.0

Mobil Delvac 1 exceeds the requirements of:

API CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF, SJ, SH
Mack EO-M Plus, EO-M, EO-L Plus
Cummins CES 20076, CES 20071
Detroit Diesel 7SE270
Caterpillar deposit performance
2.0% distillation at 700°F

Application

Mobil Delvac 1 is recommended for diesel- and gasoline-powered fleet vehicles, such as over-the-road, off-the-road, truck rental, pickup-and-delivery, utility, and school bus fleets. Mobil Delvac 1 is capable of providing fuel economy benefits of up to 3% and more in heavy duty diesel engines with as much as a 40% reduction in oil make-up in over-the-road service. Mobil Delvac 1
Typical Characteristics
Product Number 44111-3
SAE Grade 5W-40
Gravity, API 32.3
Pour Point, °C (°F) -54 (-65)
Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °C (°F) 230 (446)
Viscosity
cSt at 40° C
cSt at 100° C
SUS at 100° F
SUS at 210° F
95.0
15.0
481
79
Cranking Viscosity,
cP at -25° C
3,200
Pumping Viscosity,
cP at -35° C
20,500
Borderline Pumping Temperature, °C -44
HT/HS, cP at 150° C 4.1
Viscosity Index 167
Sulfated Ash, wt % 1.3
TBN, ASTM D 2896 11
Color, ASTM D 1500 5

Sorry to bore anyone but I would like to know the facts about the oil I use.
Darren

[ May 10, 2002, 18:54: Message edited by: dbbrowne ]

 

[LanduytG]

Well folks here we go again. Pete is on the cam shaft wear kick again. I have been using the Series 3000 5W-30 in my 99 NB TDI every since I got it 6 months ago. I have put 14K miles on her and the oil analysis at 10K was great. I use the Amsoil BMK-11 with the Be-110 filter element. To date it has not used one bite of oil and has 44K on the clock. I don't know why anyone should be paying more than 23.70 a gallon for it. Have you been keeping track of cams pete? Do you mic everyone you see? Even if it did show .001 wear per 30k miles, thats only .008 in 240K, big deal. Why don't we start bashing Upsolute and other things that you don't like Pete. How about foam and K&N air filters while we are at it. Its funny that the Amsoil 5W-30 has less wear on a 4 ball wear test than any 40 weight does but still you say thats wrong. I guess the independent labs wrong but Pete is right

Greg

 

[Drivbiwire]

Last year we had a GTG and opened up a bunch of engines and used a micrometer to measure the cam lobes. Accross the board any engine running the 5w30 or 0w30 had significant losses in metal. The engines that were running 5w40 namely Delvac 1 since new had 0 wear the highest mileage TDI we measured that was using Delvac 1 had 115,000 miles and it was at brand new specifications or within .0002" of new in other words we could not measure any noticable wear. The engines using Xw30 weight oils showed about .001" wear per 30,000 miles on the car.

The bottom line is Delvac or CAT will outperform just about any oil in terms of cold and hot climates.

Delvac will flow at -64F well below the temps that you can keep diesel from gelling. As far as heat you won't ever get the oil too hot in a liquid cooled engine.

This is just a guess but the reason I suspect the oil analysis on the Xw30 weight oils sometimes appear better is that the wear metals may actually be larger thus giving the impression that the oil is performing better. In other words the wear metals that the oil analysis looks for are smaller than what is being worn away in the engine. With the Xw40 oils your seeing the whole spectrum of metals being made thus the reasons that the wear metals are often slightly higher but the actual amount of large metal particles in the oil is less due to better viscosity protection.

Delvac uses the state of the art in sythetic oils and quite frankly rivals or exceeds any of the oils on the market.

Year around 5w40 synthetics cannot be beat for temperature range protection including the group III oils. Even the dealer only Castrol or Rotella Synthetic protect better than the 5w30 synthetics simply because the visocity is higher thus affording better all around protection.

To answer your question, yeah I'd probably change the oil to an Xw40.

I sent out my sample for the ferrography test today and I should have the results early next week. As soon as I get them I'll post the pics and results on the other thread I started.

DB

 

[Drivbiwire]

Originally posted by LanduytG:
Well folks here we go again. Pete is on the cam shaft wear kick again. I have been using the Series 3000 5W-30 in my 99 NB TDI every since I got it 6 months ago. I have put 14K miles on her and the oil analysis at 10K was great. I use the Amsoil BMK-11 with the Be-110 filter element. To date it has not used one bite of oil and has 44K on the clock. I don't know why anyone should be paying more than 23.70 a gallon for it. Have you been keeping track of cams pete? Do you mic everyone you see? Even if it did show .001 wear per 30k miles, thats only .008 in 240K, big deal. Why don't we start bashing Upsolute and other things that you don't like Pete. How about foam and K&N air filters while we are at it. Its funny that the Amsoil 5W-30 has less wear on a 4 ball wear test than any 40 weight does but still you say thats wrong. I guess the independent labs wrong but Pete is right

Greg

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lets do a ferrography test on your car and see what you think of the results of your Series 3000. I have some sample kits so we can pull the sample and measure your cam at the same time. New cams are 1.8300 inches lets see whats left on yours.

How thick is the hardened surface on a cam?

Back up your claims and do the test so we can see just how good your oil really is.

DB

 

[Drivbiwire]

Originally posted by LanduytG:
Well folks here we go again. Pete is on the cam shaft wear kick again. I have been using the Series 3000 5W-30 in my 99 NB TDI every since I got it 6 months ago. I have put 14K miles on her and the oil analysis at 10K was great. I use the Amsoil BMK-11 with the Be-110 filter element. To date it has not used one bite of oil and has 44K on the clock. I don't know why anyone should be paying more than 23.70 a gallon for it. Have you been keeping track of cams pete? Do you mic everyone you see? Even if it did show .001 wear per 30k miles, thats only .008 in 240K, big deal. Why don't we start bashing Upsolute and other things that you don't like Pete. How about foam and K&N air filters while we are at it. Its funny that the Amsoil 5W-30 has less wear on a 4 ball wear test than any 40 weight does but still you say thats wrong. I guess the independent labs wrong but Pete is right

Greg

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You need to put the KoolAid down...Why is it as soon as you guys start selling sutff for you know who you have to get into these bashing matches?

By the way, I Love my Upsolute chip

DB

[ May 10, 2002, 19:34: Message edited by: Drivbiwire ]

 

[dbbrowne]

Pete,
Was the 0w30 and 5w30 oils in the engines you tested synthetic, amsoil or petro? Could there be other reasons for this unusual wear pattern?
Is there anyone that has done and equal comparison test between the different oils using the same criteria for both oils such as, operating temps, driving habits, same miles tested on both oils, same exact engines to start with IE: milage and such?
Makes one wonder about the oil analisys

anyone else have any imput on this?
Darren

 

[Drivbiwire]

Yes the oils that have been checked were all synthetic. Synthetic oil that is a 5w30 will still only protect as well as a 5w30. The advantage of sythetic simply put is that it has better stability over the life of the oil verses conventional oil. There are other benefits but all in all it always reverts back to the viscosity of the oil.

Do a search on "Amsoil and cams" here at Fred's and see what you come up with. There has to be 10 Gigs worth of posts about this topic.

DB