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Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?


  • Total voters
    329

LurkerMike

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2006
Location
Atlanta Jawja
TDI
-Whitey: 2000 Jetta GLS, Red: 2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Oil debate seems to be as bad as Judaism vs Islam vs Christianity vs Buddhism vs Hindu vs Republican vs Democrat vs Libertarian vs Independant... :D :D :D
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
BKmetz said:
Informercial style testimonials have no place in this thread, or any oil thread for that matter. Posts of this type only attract detractors that will post that they have used other brands of oil longer with better results. Nothing can be quantified so nothing is ever resolved.
You're right. The only valid comparison between products is with standardized testing - normally with ASTM and/or ISO procedures - with un-used oil. These are the bounds within which OEMs and/or governing bodies (API, ACEA, ILSAC) create specs and these are the tests and procedures used when oil and additive companies formulate products to meet the requirements.

Unfortunately, most oil companies don't pass-on their test results to the marketing departments or the public. Most oil products are 'commodity' level products that are built to just hit the minimum standard - therefore, their test results are often identical - because most of them use the same additive package licensed from the API, and/or built by the same additive company. From the June 2006 Infineum Insight pages 12 &13 'Niche Lubricants: Emerging North American Passenger Car Oil Markets': "Just as with previous North American PCMO [passenger car motor oil] industry specifications, lubricants meeting ILSAC GF-4 are essentially non-differentiated or commodity type products..."

We've come a LONG way in the past year with TDI oil. A year ago, many of the threads broke-down with people arguing about which petroleum API CI-4 oil was best for TDIs. It's taken time and effort and many threads to shift the group to think in a new way - that synthetic is required for a reason, and that ACEA Bx (now ACEA Ax/Bx) and the VW specs force higher quality products tailored to TDIs. And I'm certain that the fruits of the shift will show as longer-lasting cars with higher efficiency and lower $$$s spent on repairs for the TDI club community as compared to those in the 'general TDI population'.

Andy
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
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Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
AndyH said:
Brian,

I don't think this is even all of the issue. Many of the threads that have deteriorated into the polar-opposite issue you've outlined didn't begin as attack threads, and most didn't begin as AMSOIL threads! They were hijacked and then took on a life of their own. I think that, if we're looking to identify which link of the chain broke, it's about hijack, not a specific oil company. So maybe the real quest should be adult-behavior rules?
You're right. We have a behavior problem, not an oil problem.

One of the areas I've tried to work with here - from as completely a vendor-neutral position as possible - is warranty. The FUD minority shouted that if the oil used wasn't on the list, the warranty is automatically gone. This is one of the reasons for the recent looks at MagMoss and the aftermarket laws in the US - which offer significantly more options for the US consumer than our Euro bros/sisters have. Regardless of OEM requirements, oil companies are on the hook for their products and are the guys that write the check when the oil fails. So - from a strictly aftermarket view, the bottom line is still product performance - just as it is for pistons or camshafts. Contrary to the screams of the FUD minority - these discussions were warranty-centric, not oil-centric. Some of the happenings in these threads that lead me to believe that the membership still isn't clear on this - and is therefore are in a position to be controlled by a dealership and not in control of their consumer rights - are arguments like 'engine warranty will be void for the wrong oil the same way the warranty is void for biodiesel use' (one of these is covered by a VW position statement, the other is not).
Just one mindset of many that needs to change.

Personal attacks are even happening in THIS thread! This is an area I'd like to see some 'teeth' in the moderation process.
I'm being tolerant during this transition period. I'm going to let everyone get their grievances aired in this thread. So let it all out, this is the thread to do it. And they better get it all out of their systems now, by catharsis, behavior modification, hypnotism, whatever it takes, because how we finally decide to conduct ourselves, I will make sure we will conform.

I learned a GREAT deal from the last few month's threads (as I did from the 'discussions' of the late '90s) - and we as a group learned some things about the 505.01 spec that we didn't realize earlier in the year - so there has been some value! I just wish there wasn't so much garbage to wade thru to get the good info.
I agree. Great information gets lost, especially when I have to send a thread to the black hole. This is about my biggest pet-peeve, having to watch great information ruined by the antics of a small minority who put their egos above the good of the club, and the babysitting I am forced to do to get people to behave.

It would be far nicer if we could find a way to 'work together' in a Napoleon Hill 'mastermind' type of structure -- where two or more people come together in a spirit of harmony to achieve a common goal. People not in harmony need not apply.
It would be nice, that's a hard mindset to change.

SO -- in the interest of continuing to advance the community's 'corporate knowledge', I'd like to propose the use of a key-word in thread titles. Threads having 'mastermind' in the title are for the express purpose of solving an issue. Any of the rules violations mentioned in the first post of this thread will (not can) result in deleting the post from the thread - two deletions max - the third 'strike' is a temporary ban from the forum. Thoughts? Andy
We shouldn't have to use a keyword. The behavior for posting already exists in us as adults. Everyone already knows what the behavior expectations are, when one registers one agrees to a contract of conduct. I see it as changing the juvenile mindset that people bring with them.
 

BryanP

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2006
Location
Gibsons BC
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI
Frank M said:
What does the Suzuki run like when you use a different oil?
THe Motorcycle shifts smoother, and has less engine noise at higher rpm.

BRAIN
I am sorry if you took my comments about Amsoil as a from as advertizing. I only wanted to state that I was happy with Amsoil, and will continue to use it
 
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BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
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Location
Illinois
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2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
BryanP said:
I am sorry if you took my comments about Amsoil as a from as advertising. I only wanted to state that I was happy with Amsoil, and will continue to use it
There really is no way to take your comments other than advertising. I was trying to illustrate that unsubstantiated claims invite abuse, which is what I'm trying to avoid. That's what this thread is about.

Part of the problem (if you take the time to read prior threads) is that resolution can be that simple. You are going to keep using your oil of choice, and that's that. Others will not respect your choice and use these forums to discredit your choice. And the escalation continues...
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
I was trying to illustrate that unsubstantiated claims invite abuse, which is what I'm trying to avoid. That's what this thread is about.
Say it again, brother.

Note that although this was in reply to a person that has one point of view, the statement itself is inclusive of all points of view.

Thanks, BK.
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Looking for PD owners using AMSOIL

As the title states - I'm trying to put together a head-count of PDers using oil from the 'A' company.

This is non-attribution -- I'll not be using your info anywhere.

Please do NOT post your info here unless you want to -- please PM me with how many miles you have on the reformulated AFL.

You'll be providing info for others on the forum that think they're alone.

Thanks very much!
Andy
 
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LurkerMike

Veteran Member
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Location
Atlanta Jawja
TDI
-Whitey: 2000 Jetta GLS, Red: 2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Is empirical data meaningless?

In no way shape, form or fashion can anyone tell me that there was a clear cause and effect here. This was not done under careful laboratory conditions over several hundred experiments. It was a one time occurrence and nothing of value can be learned from it.
 
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Frank M

BANNED
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Location
NH
TDI
NB
LurkerMike said:
Is empirical data meaningless?
. This was not done under careful laboratory conditions over several hundred experiments. It was a one time occurrence and nothing of value can be learned from it.
exactly!
I get a kick out of " I use XXXXX oil and it works great"

Definition of "great":
  • I filled it with the oil and the engine did start
  • the engine did not immediately seize
  • no thrown rods
  • i went all the way to 10k mile oil change
  • after 30,000 miles I submitted oil analysis and it is the same as any other oil
 

LurkerMike

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Atlanta Jawja
TDI
-Whitey: 2000 Jetta GLS, Red: 2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
Frank M said:
exactly!
I get a kick out of " I use XXXXX oil and it works great"

Definition of "great":
  • I filled it with the oil and the engine did start
  • the engine did not immediately seize
  • no thrown rods
  • i went all the way to 10k mile oil change
  • after 30,000 miles I submitted oil analysis and it is the same as any other oil
Thanks for the endorsement!

It is very funny how two people can agree on the "facts" but draw exactly opposite conclusions! :D :D :D
 
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AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
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Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
LurkerMike said:
It is very funny how two people can agree on the "facts" but draw exactly opposite conclusions! :D :D :D
Ever heard the phrase 'lies, damn lies, and statistics'? :D (I may be able to use some of your Beagle Brand - is it wet clutch compatible?!)

The world-recognized standards are from the ASTM and ISO - and these are regarded by the industry as the only valid comparisons. What does one do when THESE data are presented and folks still don't understand? :confused:
 
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Ferrari

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Location
Mississauga, ON
TDI
2005 Golf GLS TDI
I've used the new reformulated AFL in my 05 PD-TDI for 16,000Km (10,000miles) before switching back to a true 505.01 oil (LubroMoly). I have not noticed any change in the way the engine feels, sounds, or fuel economy changes while using AFL.

My sister's 04 PD-TDI is currently on AFL, and after the 10K interval I'll be switching back to a 505.01 oil...
 

milehighassassin

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 18, 2005
Location
Fort Collins, CO
TDI
2005 Golf TDi PD, Reflex Silver
I am at 37k miles (2005 Golf) and some change. At 40k I plan on switching to Amsoil. My bro is already running it in his TDI Golf and I think he is at like 16k miles. I plan on a full UOA at 40k and at 50k. I will makes sure I post the results when they are available.
 

Long_Range

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2004
Location
Arthur, IL , USA
TDI
Jetta Sedan GL 2004
I was planning on using up my supply of Elf DID. Purchased before Amsoil
introduced their reformulated oil.

However due to the very annoying trolls on this site I've decided to use the Amsoil product in my 2004 PD engine.

__________________
None of this need of happened if you'd have given up in 1940.
 

SuburbanTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Location
Midwest
TDI
Beetle TDI, and two Jetta TDI
I've responded here rather than in the original thread as this is really in the area of "Amsoil" as an institution and not as a product or application.

AndyH said:
If your definition of 'pushing' is any activity in any forum by a registered vendor, than I respectfully disagree - with both you and jombl.

Andy
I have no problem with Amsoil in general, it does appear to blend reasonable oils. I don't even have a problem with it's multi level marketing - It is effective. And I don't have a problem with your being a salesman here, you certainly know your product and your market and are very good at your job, Zig Zigler would be proud.

I have debated you on the content of your claims and arguments, I think this is fair.

You really don't need to walk around with a chip on your shoulder taking any questions or corrections as an attack on "Amsoil", I don't have any idea what life must have been like 30 some odd years ago when Amzoil first started appearing out of the trunks of cars at county fairs but I think it's safe to say society is way past that now.

Amsoil is neither religion nor race, debating its suitability for an application based on objective grounds should not be taken every time as bigotry and slanderous provocation.

It is an effective technique to brand any straying from the party line as 'bigoted' or 'racist', but those are tools of argumentation that are better left to the political arena.
 
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AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Let's talk turkey, jombl. Suppose some people were having a happy discussion about gear lubes - where they were bringing info together from many different vendors and sources to 'rack and stack' them for possible use in their cars. Suppose things go well for many, many posts. Then out of the blue, in their first post in the thread, someone with a history of a specific type of behavior jumps in with an attack?

In a thread I was part of, where we were talking about the operating temperature of transmissions, I posted temperatures from the case of my transmission after a drive. The issue we were looking at was whether viscosity at 40C might be better than 100C for trans lube. Someone jumped in and suggested that it takes more than one temperature test to certify gear lube.(??!!) Out of the blue - out of context - and apparently without regard for the actual thread - someone with a chip on their shoulder make a 'hit and run' attack. That's the type of behavior that I think this thread is about. And that's exactly what you did when you jumped into the gear lube thread and attacked me about a conversation I was having with Frank -- then you turned and attacked Frank! Then you wrapped an apology in another oblique attack. That's the way my 4-year old behaves, more or less. He'll throw something that he's not supposed to throw - that he knows he's not supposed to be playing with - then turns and says 'I'm sorry'. Then he'll go throw it again. Sound familiar?!

I have absolutely no problem with debates! I don't have any problem with someone calling me on mistakes, either. I've put out requests in a number of threads for just that - tell me where I'm wrong - prove to me that I've made a mistake. But one has no reason to suggest that my parents were never married, or to e-mail me at home with more attacks.

But - what we don't need is the 'other side', either -- where someone with the intent of helping and sharing puts a piece of info on the table, and rather than attacking the data, the person is attacked, then the company, then the certification process, and on and on and on. It's very obviously NOT about the data or the content when the first shot fired is a personal attack - the data isn't even debated! And the folks that use those techniques most successfully are the first to use those accusations against someone else! (I want info without sales flackery!) But personal attack, bigotry, and/or slanderous provocation is what it is - and it absolutely SHOULD be called when it's used. You see, jombl, these can be used as both weapons and as shields -- I don't think it's appropriate to use them in either fashion.
 
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SuburbanTDI

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Location
Midwest
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Beetle TDI, and two Jetta TDI
AndyH said:
But one has no reason to suggest that my parents were never married, or to e-mail me at home with more attacks.
I have NEVER emailed you in my life. I have NEVER even responded to the multiple "Private Messages" that you have sent me. I have NEVER EVER written anything anywhere about your parents.

Let me make this as clear as I can, your accusations are false and slanderous, I am amazed that you would stoop to such low levels.


To attempt to destroy someone over debate is unacceptable, I'm sorry but I will not take the bait. You should be ashamed of yourself.

For my part, I will be placing you on my ignore list, no debate is worth dealing with "this".
 
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AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
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Location
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TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
jombl said:
To attempt to destroy someone over debate is unacceptable, I'm sorry but I will not take the bait. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Relax, jombl - and give the theatrics a break. I'm not asking you to take ownership of anything that doesn't belong to you. I'm simply reporting some of what's come my way in the past 5 months. Me thinks you doth protest too much.

Fear not, Dawg. Brian said this is where he wants this to be hashed-out - and jombl brought it here from another thread - for which he apologized.


http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1317523&postcount=2
 

BKmetz

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Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
AndyH said:
Brian said this is where he wants this to be hashed-out
EXACTLY!

This is the proper place for rants and spleen venting, so go for it and don't hold back. My expectations are that it would be ugly, as it should be. So far I have not been disappointed. ;)
 

Frank M

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Location
NH
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an error in communication

AndyH said:
Relax, jombl - and give the theatrics a break. I'm not asking you to take ownership of anything that doesn't belong to you. I'm simply reporting some of what's come my way in the past 5 months. Me thinks you doth protest too much.
FWIW When reading your post, I initially thought it was jombl that sent emails and made reference to your parents. Either that was an error in communication or it was deliberately written that way in an attempt to discredit someone..
Lets hear your explanation because this is hitting below the belt if jombl is correct..:confused: :confused:
 

20IndigoBlue02

Top Post Dawg
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Aug 22, 2001
Location
Was North NJ, now SoCal
TDI
2002 Golf TDI-- deceased
Frank M said:
FWIW When reading your post, I initially thought it was jombl that sent emails and made reference to your parents. Either that was an error in communication or it was deliberately written that way in an attempt to discredit someone..
Lets hear your explanation because this is hitting below the belt if jombl is correct..:confused: :confused:
Andy was referencing what others have done in the past. Currently since the discussion is with jombl--- some has felt that that remark was implicitly towards him
 

BKmetz

Administrator, Member #10
Staff member
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Location
Illinois
TDI
2015 Passat, titanium beige, 6MT
Frank M said:
FWIW When reading your post, I initially thought it was jombl that sent emails and made reference to your parents. Either that was an error in communication or it was deliberately written that way in an attempt to discredit someone..
Lets hear your explanation because this is hitting below the belt if jombl is correct..:confused: :confused:
How about staying out of matters that don't concern you. I've been babysitting personal battles here for years, about the worst part of the job. I abhor needless escalation when bystanders feel the need to jump in, and I'm unsympathetic to their complaints when they get time-outs.

When in doubt, don't participate. There is nothing wrong with ignoring attacks and minding one's own business. Always take the high road, it avoids later embarrassment.
 

Georgeseq

Gone But Not Forgotten
Joined
Jan 2, 2002
Location
Columbus, Ohio
Having seen my name mentioned in this thread, I thought it appropriate to explain my apparent absence from this forum. My wife and I owned a TDI Golf which we had here in Columbus, Ohio for several years. My daughter went off to Stanford Univ. and we gave her the Golf as her college car. After several years of unfortunate total lack of loving care (or any care), I would receive cell phone calls from my daughter as "Dad, I am on A1A south of San Fran and the car is making a very loud, strange noise, what do I do?" I could not take any more of those calls so the Golf had to be traded for a newer non-diesel auto.
Thus, not being a card carrying, certified TDI owner any more I did not feel I had the TDI right to do lubrication combat. So, I have been here, biting my tongue many a time, lurking...
We do help sponsor the TDI Rally Golf, however, along with its transporter!
Great thread, most enjoyable... Where else would such passion be displayed..
George Morrison, STLE CLS
Columbus, Ohio
 

2nd_tdi_4me

Member
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Location
Kansas, USA
TDI
Passat GLS TDI, 2005, Stonehenge Gray/Anthracite leaterette
Present & accounted for.

In spite of some of the postings by others on this topic, I decided to use AMSOIL at my 30,000 mile change in my 2005 Passat PD.

So far, so good...

The way I figure it, if AMSOIL prints "recommended for VW 505.01 applications" on the label, AMSOIL will be liable in the event that VW denies any warranty-related repairs based on oil choice. Bottom line, end of discussion!
 

AndyH

Registered Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 25, 2001
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
'97 Passat Wagon 410K RIP
Group Mail...

George - happy to see you! I'm sorry to have brought you in, but hope the reference conveyed high respect and the desire to have you around.

Gentlemen - I appreciate the feedback. I've edited post 75 to underline the portions that were 'about' jombl. I hope that makes it much more clear.

Frank - I was amazed at your apparent depth of auto transmission knowledge. My level of AT experience doesn't go any deeper than fluid changes, and replacing oil seals when swapping axles. I hope to learn more from you.

jombl - I agree with you 100% when you said "To attempt to destroy someone over debate is unacceptable". I hope we can have much less of that type of behavior here. In spite of some history - I'd still like to know what kind of work you do. Though I've certainly bristled at how some messages were expressed, I've been surprised at some of the content (in a positive way). Are you in the legal trade in some form?

Fahr - I think there's room to put one of your recent locked posts into chronological order, and make some allowances for what appears to be lost context. I'd like to talk with you some time about your views on the spec doc itself - you suggested NDAs and contracts that others did not - including VW Germany when they sent me the specs. I used my personal e-mail account and didn't identify myself as a dealer of any type -- they gave me the same documents (no strings attached) I received from another source that is an 'official partner' with VW (not an oil company).

Brian, Thank you for your patience. How do we vote you a raise?

Sorry Greg. I think clearing this now will make it better tomorrow.

edit underlined.
 
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LurkerMike

Veteran Member
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Location
Atlanta Jawja
TDI
-Whitey: 2000 Jetta GLS, Red: 2000 Jetta GLS 5-speed
BKmetz said:
EXACTLY!

This is the proper place for rants and spleen venting, so go for it and don't hold back. My expectations are that it would be ugly, as it should be. So far I have not been disappointed. ;)
Spleen venting? :confused:

Dude! You stole my puppy's pee... :(
 
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