Amsoil In this Thread only

Which AMSOIL?


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BKmetz

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Originally Posted by Frank M
I have a question, if a new separate Amsoil thread is started, can it survive like this one.


I want to start one and need to know the rules beforehand. thanks
The rules are that I will probably lock it after a few days because the anti-Amsoil cult will fill it with empty posts that will only encourage another endless redundant beat-a-dead-horse dead-end debate, complete with redundant photos of hand painted " Motorcycle Inspection & repair Amsoil Oil for sale" signs that add nothing to whatever is being debated.

The rules: when an Amsoil thread loses its relevance, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread degrades into personal attacks, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread goes on for pages and pages of wasted bandwidth, it's getting locked. When an Amsoil thread is nothing but attacks against Amsoil's certification protocols, MLM sales structure, and corporate policies, which the people who sell and use it here have no control over, it's getting locked.

To put all this as simply as I can: when people refuse to agree to disagree about whatever it is they like or dislike about Amsoil, it's getting locked.

What aspect of Amsoil that has not been debated ad nauseum already in any previous thread could be argued about? I'll go even further, a challenge: I encourage anyone to start an Amsoil thread in which any aspect of the company or product has not been discussed before. You guys will have to be your own scorekeepers and judges. Any who finds a previous post, thread, etc, post a link. If the subject has been covered before, I'm shutting the thread down. So what this comes down to is how well one can use the TDIClub search feature. I will allow new threads to continue as long as no one can show the subject has not been covered before.

There will have to be some rules:

no subject hijacking: self-explanatory,

respect: no attacks, bullying, insults, flaming, or trolling. We are all adults here,

relevance: no posting for the sake of just posting, wasting time and bandwidth, I want content that is good information that ADDS VALUE to the thread, no post whoring to see who gets in the last word

stay on topic: if after several posts the subject strays, even to previously covered Amsoil topics, it is subject to being locked. This means a thread might go on for several pages, or only a few posts. It ends when it is time.

No invoking Godwin's Law: Any mention of ****** or ****'s to make a point, the thread is automatically locked. Anyone who invokes Godwin's Law has automatically lost the argument. That's Godwin's Law in a nutshell.

FUD tactics are not allowed to make a point: Google FUD Tactics if you don't know what that means. Resorting to spreading Fear, Uncertainty, & Doubt to discredit or make a point will result in a thread being locked.

No anecdotal or testimonial posts: You have used Brand X oil for 40 years and have driven a million miles without any oil related problems. So what? So has everyone else on their brand of oil and will tell you so. Want to brag about your oil, get a job as an audience shill on a cable TV infomercial. Shill posts will be edited.

I am open to suggestions on streamlining content or clarification of rules. I consider this a work in progress. This is a team effort, all suggestions are welcome. No email or PMs, everything is to be posted here.

Edited to expand the list.
 
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BKmetz

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LurkerMike said:
The search function here is so frustrating to use that it makes me contemplate suicide...
I have no control over that.
 

GetMore

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Sounds like you are going to be busy, keeping an eye on the thread. Good luck with that.

I've got a suggestion for the thread: Maybe someone can start a sticky that lists all the pros/cons and viewpoints, both good and bad. After all, if the arguments, procedures, specs, etc. don't really change then maybe a well written list of all of them would be the best solution.
One stop shopping, as it were.
 

Sooch

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Sounds a lot like the Pro-Amsoil folks can do no wrong to me, while the Anti-Amsoil "cult" keeps getting beat down. I'm not even sure that anti-Amsoil is the proper term and those folks are certainly no more of a cult than the believers. Aren't believers or followers of a belief usually the "cult"?

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=140761

I realize that I may get banned for even questioning the authorities, but truly there has to be a common ground and a way to be even handed about this sort of content.
 

LanduytG

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Sooch said:
Sounds a lot like the Pro-Amsoil folks can do no wrong to me, while the Anti-Amsoil "cult" keeps getting beat down. I'm not even sure that anti-Amsoil is the proper term and those folks are certainly no more of a cult than the believers. Aren't believers or followers of a belief usually the "cult"?

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=140761

I realize that I may get banned for even questioning the authorities, but truly there has to be a common ground and a way to be even handed about this sort of content.
jombl is who.

Greg
 

tditom

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Excellent idea!!

GetMore said:
Sounds like you are going to be busy, keeping an eye on the thread. Good luck with that.

I've got a suggestion for the thread: Maybe someone can start a sticky that lists all the pros/cons and viewpoints, both good and bad. After all, if the arguments, procedures, specs, etc. don't really change then maybe a well written list of all of them would be the best solution.
One stop shopping, as it were.
;)
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1320703&postcount=97
 

LanduytG

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If you look back at all the threads its always the same people saying the same thing. Brian I think a bunch should have a time out, period. I don't care who likes it and who does not. This crap gets old and has been that way for sometime.

Greg
 

BKmetz

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It doesn't matter to me what the brand of oil is. It doesn't matter to me how a company markets its oil. Amsoil is what it is, and all the debate in the world will change nothing. This is why I have taken a hardliner attitude with the Amsoil threads.

This post reflects some of the problems with trying to debate Amsoil:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=1320703&postcount=97

Can't we even try to be fair here? Who was it that hijacked this post?
I believe that it was post number 6 that started the thread off on the "beat a dead horse" tangent.
Sootch, it was the MOTUL guy who first mentioned Amsoil, not Andy. If this forum had reps from the other brands listed I would expect them to get involved too. I did not find Andy's response unreasonable.

jombl, I do not have a problem with your facts. I have a HUGE problem with your attitude. Attacks, insults, and slander will not be tolerated. I don't care how much you think you are right, there is no excuse for an attack or calling someone a liar, twice. Andy is not a liar, his version of the facts simply do not agree with your version of the facts. Liar means intentional deceit, this is not the case. Figure out a more diplomatic way to make you point because next time will involve time-outs. You have been told.

To summarize: Debating Amsoil is not a problem. Threads get edited, locked, deleted, etc, from abuse. I use the term anti-Amsoil cult for the reason Greg stated, it's almost always the same people sabotaging threads, over and over. The Amsoil critics all engage in the same tactic, crap up any and all Amsoil threads until it has to be locked, then cry foul when they are called on it. I have NEVER read any thread in which pro-Amsoil people attacked the competition. If they can accept the competition, so can the Amsoil critics accept Amsoil. Amsoil is not going away, so get used to it.

Learn to agree to disagree, because no one is going to win any Amsoil debate anyway.
 

Frank M

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Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members?

BKMetz said:
It doesn't matter to me what the brand of oil is. It doesn't matter to me how a company markets its oil. Amsoil is what it is, and all the debate in the world will change nothing. This is why I have taken a hardliner attitude with the Amsoil threads..
You sound upset and to get upset over something like an oil preference is just not good for one's health.
Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members?
Well my feeling about the Amsoil attack by other members is this:
At times it has been pushed on members like it is some sort of religious ointment for our vehicles. And to get it we have to belong to a certain domination and get it through the chief priest. The chief priest is always ready to take our order.
This grates on members and cause those rebuttals that we see in some threads.
I notice that other oils that are marketed differently are not the victims of long sarcastic remarks by members.
The solution I see is for Amsoil users to talk about their product in a normal fashion and not attribute mystique to its qualities.
 
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AndyH

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Frank,

When I was in high school, one of my teachers showed a great short movie on creativity. These ping-pong balls are cruising thru a factory on the way from plastic blobs to finished, packaged products. At one of the last stations before boxing, they go thru a 'bounce test'. The only test for the balls is that they bounce 'high enough' to be accepted. Those that do, are boxed, wrapped, and shipped. Those that don't are rejected and sent back to be melted down. One of the balls came thru the line, did it's bounce test, and zoomed into the air higher than any of the others. Lights flashed, alarm bells rang, and this ball wasn't rejected to the scrap pile, it was ejected into the dumpster in the alley. The remaining movie is has an allusion to an old prophet, complete with the ball evading hords of earth-bound balls by shooting straight up into the clouds and disappearing.

Peer groups can perform a very valuable function when they keep the stragglers up with the core of the group. Unfortunately, they can perform a very harmful function when they try to 'rein in' the front-runners.

Why the attacks, Frank? (and the photos of hand-painted signs?!) Because the 'truth' is just fine - as long as it's the 'group's truth'. Sigh.

Andy
 

span1_85

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and if someone can't figure out that the easiest was to get amsoils is to order it from amsoil.com and if u become a prefered customer u get it for the prices that amsoil venders do. seems pretty simple to me. and i mean i don't think that amsoil is this gift from heaven, i have friends that use other oils and they work just fine too.
 

whitedog

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I was wondering why BK was saying that Amsoil posting rules. I see my problem now.

I hope it goes well for everyone and something constructive can come of it.
 

BKmetz

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You sound upset and to get upset over something like an oil preference is just not good for one's health.
I read sarcasm. Now you paint yourself as the benevolent Frank M?

Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members? Well my feeling about the Amsoil attack by other members is this: At times it has been pushed on members like it is some sort of religious ointment for our vehicles. And to get it we have to belong to a certain domination and get it through the chief priest. The chief priest is always ready to take our order.
This grates on members and cause those rebuttals that we see in some threads. I notice that other oils that are marketed differently are not the victims of long sarcastic remarks by members. The solution I see is for Amsoil users to talk about their product in a normal fashion and not attribute mystique to its qualities.
I agree with the evangelical tone some of the pro-Amsoil camp uses wears thin. I'm going to introduce a simple concept here: When the Amsoil detractors respond in kind or engage in oneupmanship, it compounds the problem. Thus my position on the Amsoil detractors and my lack of sympathy for them. Matching bad form is not acceptable. So, are you part of the solution or part of the problem?

Another simple concept: It's OK to sit out the debates if you can't add anything constructive. Try it!
 
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BKmetz

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whitedog said:
Will a mod lock his own thread? Inquiring minds want to know.
I have actually done this before.
 

fixer

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BKmetz said:
Liar means intentional deceit, this is not the case.
When someone (a vendor) has a financial interest in his 'version of the facts' and someone else has no financial interest in their 'version of the facts' it should be obvious who has no credibility and who does.
 

LurkerMike

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I'm an Amsoil consumer because it has been proven to me to be consistently "one" of the best products available. I buy from a coworker so it is convenient.

I got on the Amsoil kick because of their ATF many years ago. I was using Mobil1 ATF and I wasn't happy with the clear almost undyed property and the fact that it was always "thin" on the dipstick when checking the fluid level hot. Heck, I couldn't even read the stick in the bright sun. Still, fully synthetic Mobil1 ATF was far better than conventional dino ATF's.

I tried the Amsoil blood red fully synthetic ATF that has much more apparent "body" to it on the stick and I was instantly hooked! I have never seen another ATF that even comes close.

Switching to Amsoil engine oils was a natural progression after that.

Now I think I will stick with Amsoil ATF in my Jetta trans and Elf 506.01 in the crankcase... at least until Amsoil comes out with a 506.01 "recommended" oil... I don't care about the "official certification" from Amsoil, if they recommend it for a given spec, I'm good.

I drink Coke, not Pepsi. I wear briefs, not boxers. I ride a hybrid bicycle, not a road bike. I eat chicken and turkey, NEVER beef (until EVERY cow is tested for mad cow). I drink hormone free rice and soy milk, NEVER dairy milk made from cows on the "juice". I think tobacco should be made illegal and medical marijuana legalized. I believe Afghanistan and Iraq were our destiny. But if you go to war, you kill the enemy without mercy, the way they fight us. Falluga should have been MOAB'ed off the map on Day 1 of the war followed by every town were "heavy" resistance was encountered. Short of these terms, I wouldn't have "gone in" if it were my decision to make.

The last time I checked it was a free country and I have the "right" to these opinions. But of all of them, my Amsoil preference seems to be the most controversial? :rolleyes: :D :D :D
 

P2B

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whitedog said:
Will a mod lock his own thread? Inquiring minds want to know.
I bet he will, if it crosses the lines he's drawing.

To my mind, this thread exemplifies the major deficiency of web forums - threads can't branch. On Usenet, it's easy for readers to follow the main thread while ignoring flame war eruptions in the branches, and hard for fanatics to hijack the main thread.

Simon
 

LurkerMike

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Frank M said:
...Why is Amsoil attacked to this degree by members?
Well my feeling about the Amsoil attack by other members is this:
At times it has been pushed on members like it is some sort of religious ointment for our vehicles...

...The solution I see is for Amsoil users to talk about their product in a normal fashion and not attribute mystique to its qualities...
I agree, VW fluids are the only "magic mystical potions" that deserve an official unchallenged cult following here... :p
 

nicklockard

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BKMetz: a proposal of my own

Hello Brian,

I am somewhat of a disinterested observer of these Amsoil pissing contests. I have used their gear oil but am turned off by the lack of 'regular business hours' dependability. Having stated my disclosure, my proposal is this:

Why not start a WHOLE subforum, dedicated strictly to discussing Amsoil/Anti-Amsoil debates?

The way I see it is that it would be so childish and boring that the vast majority would ignore it, and only the fanatics on either side would hash it out. There seem to be only 5-15 on each side anyway. The forum would be sacrificing a little bit of bandwidth...to keep the peace in the oils and lubricants forum. Any time anyone asked anything about Amsoil or tried to post anything about Amsoil there, they would be viciously kicked in the teeth and told to: "take it over to the Amsoil Dead-End Threads!":p

Huh??:D
 

LurkerMike

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Sounds like GREAT fun to me!!!:D :D :D

Meet me in the playground after school, unless you are CHICKEN!!!

BOCK BOCK BOCK!!! CHICKEN!!!! :p
 

Frank M

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AndyH said:
Frank,Why the attacks, Frank? (and the photos of hand-painted signs?!) Because the 'truth' is just fine - as long as it's the 'group's truth'. Sigh.

Andy
The pics are of Amsoil Dealers. Nothing wrong with that.
Thousands of people drive by those establishments every day and see those signs.



If you, as an Amsoil dealer are offended by them, then think about the motorist driving by those establishments everyday. Wouldn't they think some one is crazy to buy that Amsoil from them...
 
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LurkerMike

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Frank M said:
The pics are of Amsoil Dealers. Nothing wrong with that.
Thousands of people drive by those establishments every day and see those signs.



If you, as an Amsoil dealer are offended by them, then think about the motorist driving by those establishments everyday. Wouldn't they think some one is crazy to buy that Amsoil from them...
:D :D :D

It is bad PR perhaps, but I wouldn't want to pay more for the product just so they could expand the advertising budget and provide professional quality signage for the resellers...

Besides, hand painted emissions testing signs can indicate good things about the operator's need for some fast $$$... especially when you are running a pair of dominators sitting on a tunnel ram feeding the big block transplant in your emissions era vehicle, if you know what I mean, eh Bubba? ;)
 
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wny_pat

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nicklockard said:
Why not start a WHOLE subforum, dedicated strictly to discussing Amsoil/Anti-Amsoil debates?

The way I see it is that it would be so childish and boring that the vast majority would ignore it, and only the fanatics on either side would hash it out. There seem to be only 5-15 on each side anyway. The forum would be sacrificing a little bit of bandwidth...to keep the peace in the oils and lubricants forum. Any time anyone asked anything about Amsoil or tried to post anything about Amsoil there, they would be viciously kicked in the teeth and told to: "take it over to the Amsoil Dead-End Threads!":p
I have to agree with that, but I also know it would end up carrying over. They have the same policy over at Edmunds concerning Zaino. But it still comes back to the regular forum.

I have known about Amsoil for years and have even used it now and then. I think they have a great product, but lack in the PR and Marketing Department. And I think their Amsoil University is nothing but a cheering team to keep up the spirit of the independant dealers. In making that statement, I do not mean it to put down any of the Amsoil dealers here, especially Andy. He knows his product well, better than most, and I do respect him for that.
 

P1Performance

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""""Sootch, it was the MOTUL guy who first mentioned Amsoil, not Andy. If this forum had reps from the other brands listed I would expect them to get involved too. I did not find Andy's response unreasonable."""""

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Let start by saying that i did not have anything negative to say about Amsoil. All i stated was: Why is Amsoil stating they are an approved VW 505.01 oil, when they are not approved. Also, if they are willing to stand behind its product. Andy answered it and thats it.


""""jombl, I do not have a problem with your facts. I have a HUGE problem with your attitude. Attacks, insults, and slander will not be tolerated. I don't care how much you think you are right, there is no excuse for an attack or calling someone a liar, twice. Andy is not a liar, his version of the facts simply do not agree with your version of the facts. Liar means intentional deceit, this is not the case. Figure out a more diplomatic way to make you point because next time will involve time-outs. You have been told.""""

Jombl was just correcting AndyH. If AndyH can correct me with info that can be easily misinterpreted by a reader, then why can't Jombl correct AndyH or make it clearer for everyone. As for attack or just thinking you are smarter than most people on this forum. I didn't mean to write "there" instead of "their", but AndyH felt compelled to correct me. I can only wish to be an english professor.
 

20IndigoBlue02

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Frank M said:
The pics are of Amsoil Dealers. Nothing wrong with that.
Thousands of people drive by those establishments every day and see those signs.



If you, as an Amsoil dealer are offended by them, then think about the motorist driving by those establishments everyday. Wouldn't they think some one is crazy to buy that Amsoil from them...
THey are just pics... yes, nothing wrong with that-- however whenever you post those pics, it's the comments that you use that makes it into an attack on Amsoil, its products, and its retail network-- this is something you do quite often.

---------------
Lemme add my 2 cents... everytime someone mentioned Magnuson-Moss Act, people tend to miss the point of the M-M Act itself.

VW can specify specific standards, such as VW505.00, VW505.01, etc., but cannot limit the use to only product sold at the VW dealership

Example:
1. VW502.00 oils:
Since VW uses ZVW 352 540S, which is a VW502.00 oil and the customer uses Mobil 1 0w40-- VW cannot void a warranty because he/she did not use the ZVW 352 540S oil.

2. Oil filters.....
It is very common for us to get Mann filters in Manne packaging. VW cannot void a warranty because we did not use the Mann filter in VAG packaging.

3. Our suicidal MAF's.
If we used the Mann air filter-- VW cannot void the warranty reimbursement because we did not use the VW air filter (which is a Mann filter anyway)

Expanding on the M-M Act is the proof that the aftermarket part did not cause the failure.
 
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