Am I missing something, or is Darkside's DPF delete kit less than half the price of Rawtek's? Why is this the case?

[coolusername]

So I'm looking at a DPF delete kit for my 2012 Jetta Sportwagen, and the two names I hear tossed around the most are Darkside Developments and Rawtek. Looking at the Rawtek kit, it's like $1200 (if I want to keep my catalytic converter, which I do). The Darkside equivalent is a shorter section of pipe, meaning I can theoretically just keep my OEM cat in place. This Darkside kit is $500. What's up with this huge price disparity? Am I even looking at the right product for my car? I'm just shocked that two seemingly-identical products can have such a huge price gap, and I'm wondering if I'm missing something about compatibility, quality, etc.

 

[Mozambiquer]

Quality would be the biggest difference. The rawtek kit is very heavy wall stainless steel and is very high quality, the darkside one is a lot thinner and is known for breaking at the flange weld. They may have fixed that issue, but I'm not sure.

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

Anyone with input, good ot bad, about darkside mentioned issue?

 

[scrambld]

not sure on wall thickness but DS uses 317L SS.....according to the response I got from them re: grade of SS used.

edit...Rawrek is 304 where as buzzken is 409 if I'm not mistaken

 

[coolusername]

Quality would be the biggest difference. The rawtek kit is very heavy wall stainless steel and is very high quality, the darkside one is a lot thinner and is known for breaking at the flange weld. They may have fixed that issue, but I'm not sure.

I understand the idea that the Rawtek pipe is higher quality, I guess what I'm really asking is: does it make an appreciable difference? Like, do these Darkside pipes break often? Because I'd rather save the $700 and go with Darkside, but if the Darkside one is that crappy of a product, I guess I'd have no choice but to buy a Rawtek. I just don't know if the Rawtek downpipe is really seven hundred dollars better.

 

[sauron18]

I have almost 2 years with the Darkside delete kit on my CJAA and no problem so far. The Prodiesel downpipe 2.5 is the cheapest option out there. Yeah some people have had problems with the darkside breaking but if that happens to me i will just take the downpipe to a friend and he will wield it again and will charge me $100 or less for the job...

 

[scrambld]

If there is concern of welds breaking at the flanges due to weight/vibration, maybe pre-emptively add some gussets to any available areas that don't interfere with other components? Any local welder should be able to do that pretty inexpensively if you lack the means.

 

[Mozambiquer]

I did see one person say that the reason it breaks is due to people not putting the brackets on like they're supposed to. I can neither confirm or deny. I do know the rawtek one is very heavy duty. I have had experience with that one and one local guy who makes the cheapest ones I've seen. They're $100 or so and made from galvanized exhaust pipe thats mandrel bent. Then the flange from the dpf is cut off and welded onto it.

 

[coolusername]

I have almost 2 years with the Darkside delete kit on my CJAA and no problem so far. The Prodiesel downpipe 2.5 is the cheapest option out there. Yeah some people have had problems with the darkside breaking but if that happens to me i will just take the downpipe to a friend and he will wield it again and will charge me $100 or less for the job...

Would you recommend the Profidiesel downpipe to anyone? Do you know if it lets me keep the factory catalytic converter? Honestly I'm fine with the Darkside pipe, but now you have me curious about it (I mean, it's almost half the price of the Darkside pipe!)

Probably am still gonna go with Darkside, it's just good to know about options.

 

[sauron18]

Would you recommend the Profidiesel downpipe to anyone? Do you know if it lets me keep the factory catalytic converter? Honestly I'm fine with the Darkside pipe, but now you have me curious about it (I mean, it's almost half the price of the Darkside pipe!)

Probably am still gonna go with Darkside, it's just good to know about options.

A friend have the Prodiesel and he told me it´s fine and does the work. It´s just 2.5 and idk if 2.5 vs 3 will make any difference. It´s a lot cheaper than the Darkside that´s for sure. He have a couple of month or less than a year with the downpipe installed i think still no problem so far. I think it let you keep the factory catalytic converted but asked them to be sure.

 

[majesty78]

I have this one on my Skoda 2.0L CFFB without any problems:

Downpipe SKODA Superb Mk2 1.6, 2.0 TDI - RM Motors

Downpipe SKODA Superb Mk2 1.6, 2.0 TDI - Online kaufen. Offizieller Online Shop des Herstellers RM Motors.

rm-motors.com

On my small Fabia 3 cyl. I have a downpipe from a different supplier which has also cracked at the welding after a few month.

Problem is, they do not use filler rod, but only fuse weld together the piping, which makes the weld more prone to fail than the basic material.

 

[DevilDogDoc]

My Darkside kit has been in for a couple months with no issues at all. I got the mid pipe with it and the egr race pipe and it was 686$ to my door. The only issue I ran into was the brackets that attaches to the subframe the fingers that go into the rubber came up a little short. Give minutes with my welder and problem solved. Well worth the savings to me. My flange weld is still solid.

 

[tleader]

I used the Profidiesel kit and have had zero problems thus far. I bought the full kit with the mid pipe and it fit perfectly fine. Just needed to trim the one bracket for a tighter fit. I assume it's made that way so it can be tailored to each vehicle. I also bought the EGR delete too and that worked out fine as well. All said and done, it was about $425 to my door in about a week +/-. I don't live in a cold salt infested environment and my car is a daily, so no need for the high speed prices and industrial grade materials. That may vary for those that do live up north.

 

[coolusername]

I used the Profidiesel kit and have had zero problems thus far. I bought the full kit with the mid pipe and it fit perfectly fine. Just needed to trim the one bracket for a tighter fit. I assume it's made that way so it can be tailored to each vehicle. I also bought the EGR delete too and that worked out fine as well. All said and done, it was about $425 to my door in about a week +/-. I don't live in a cold salt infested environment and my car is a daily, so no need for the high speed prices and industrial grade materials. That may vary for those that do live up north.

Did your ProfiDiesel pipe let you keep the stock cat, or is it just straight through? How's the smell? I might just go with them, since people here are saying the quality's good enough and it's cheap.

 

[turbobrick240]

The main catalyst goes away with the dpf. The little sulfur cat downstream isn't going to do much of anything(except probably clog up) post delete.

 

[tleader]

Did your ProfiDiesel pipe let you keep the stock cat, or is it just straight through? How's the smell? I might just go with them, since people here are saying the quality's good enough and it's cheap.

I know he sells two different versions of the DP, so I would reach out via his website or via FB (I had better communication over FB messenger). If you buy the less expensive model, it will cost even less than what I paid for the whole kit. The smell is like any diesel from years ago before the DPFs and CATs. I don't notice it in my vehicle unless I'm sitting still and the wind is blowing it in my direction. Once in motion there is no smell or concern.

 

[majesty78]

Did your ProfiDiesel pipe let you keep the stock cat, or is it just straight through? How's the smell?

If you get "caught" for an road inspection by police or at the annual MOT inspection, it will be detected quickly by the smell.

Even when you use the version with catalytic converter, as these cheap aftermarket converters do not do really much in terms of reducing the smell.

 

[coolusername]

If you get "caught" for an road inspection by police or at the annual MOT inspection, it will be detected quickly by the smell.

Even when you use the version with catalytic converter, as these cheap aftermarket converters do not do really much in terms of reducing the smell.

My question about the smell is more of a personal thing, as I like driving this car around town with the windows down and sunroof open. Where I live it's highly unlikely I'll get pulled over for emissions reasons, as long as I'm not rolling coal or anything.

 

[Jr mason]

I know he sells two different versions of the DP, so I would reach out via his website or via FB (I had better communication over FB messenger). If you buy the less expensive model, it will cost even less than what I paid for the whole kit. The smell is like any diesel from years ago before the DPFs and CATs. I don't notice it in my vehicle unless I'm sitting still and the wind is blowing it in my direction. Once in motion there is no smell or concern.

I'm assuming they sell to USA?

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

Where I live it's highly unlikely I'll get pulled over for emissions reasons, as long as I'm not rolling coal or anything.

Orange, California ....??? hmmmmm

 

[coolusername]

Orange, California ....??? hmmmmm

Well, passing smog is one thing, but on the road, if I don't have any visible smoke I should be fine. It's not like how inner European cities have smog control points or anything. I mean, everyone here goes 80 - 85 in "65" labeled freeways. Cops don't care about too much as long as you aren't a maniac.

 

[turbobrick240]

Isn't passing smog a pretty big deal in California? The South Coast air basin is a fairly unique environment re air pollution. I understand the appeal of deleting, but it's pretty inconsiderate there, imo.

 

[coolusername]

Isn't passing smog a pretty big deal in California? The South Coast air basin is a fairly unique environment re air pollution. I understand the appeal of deleting, but it's pretty inconsiderate there, imo.

There are ways to pass smog, but I'm not gonna elaborate on a public forum. Regardless, yeah, you're right re environment. That's part of why I'm asking about catalytic converters and such, and am worried about the smell. I might just not delete, and I'm on the fence. However, whether I delete or not delete has nothing to do with my reverence for the local laws. My decision will probably be based on cost, associated smell / pollution, and performance/reliability/efficiency gains.

P.S.: how much would you guys say a deleted common rail pollutes compared to an emissions intact, pre-DPF older TDI, such as a BEW (relative owns one) or a 1Z (family project car)?

 

[scrambld]

P.S.: how much would you guys say a deleted common rail pollutes compared to an emissions intact, pre-DPF older TDI, such as a BEW (relative owns one) or a 1Z (family project car)?

You'll never ever win that argument.....although, I agree 100%. When VWs dieselgate came to light that was my argument too...." what puts out more, a 20mpg 5.9l Cummins or a 40mpg "cheated" 1.9/2.0l TDI?"
I say you won't win the argument simply because a delete is a delete.....we really should have code regarding this subject....those coal rollers are going to ruin all the fun.

 

[turbobrick240]

There are ways to pass smog, but I'm not gonna elaborate on a public forum. Regardless, yeah, you're right re environment. That's part of why I'm asking about catalytic converters and such, and am worried about the smell. I might just not delete, and I'm on the fence. However, whether I delete or not delete has nothing to do with my reverence for the local laws. My decision will probably be based on cost, associated smell / pollution, and performance/reliability/efficiency gains.

P.S.: how much would you guys say a deleted common rail pollutes compared to an emissions intact, pre-DPF older TDI, such as a BEW (relative owns one) or a 1Z (family project car)?

If you're comparing a factory tune older TDI to a deleted but near factory performance commonrail, the deleted commonrail should produce less soot and more NOx. There's generally an inverse relationship between soot and NOx due to the mechanics of diesel internal combustion. High cylinder pressures that result in less soot create more NOx. A bad tune can result in an overabundance of both.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

You'll never ever win that argument.....although, I agree 100%. When VWs dieselgate came to light that was my argument too...." what puts out more, a 20mpg 5.9l Cummins or a 40mpg "cheated" 1.9/2.0l TDI?"
I say you won't win the argument simply because a delete is a delete.....we really should have code regarding this subject....those coal rollers are going to ruin all the fun.

The whole idea of roll coal is just dumping excess fuel and being unburned. A total waste in my opinion.

 

[turbobrick240]

I'd say the deliberate coal rollers basically just want say : "hey, look at me in my awesome smoke belching vehicle". Or worse: "suck on this smoke, friend". Not very inspiring either way.

 

[scrambld]

The whole idea of roll coal is just dumping excess fuel and being unburned. A total waste in my opinion.

I know that......and that is exactly what's attracting the feds to this topic in the 1st place IMO

 

[calimustang]

Darkside exhaust sucks. I had it on my 15 Passat. its 2.5" exhaust and deal was too good to be true with Stevenson with DieselDNA. yep my mistake that made her run like gutless poop car that screams... literally.

changed tuner to Malone and she runs far better like a reliable 1940's sewing machine. tossed Darkside exhaust to Rawtek and omg..... she sounds better and smoother engine overall. Darkside oxygen sensor bung was on wrong position that rubbed the sensor to the engine/sensors mount....... so you get the idea.

Rawtek is 3". quality is superior and sensor bung is on the exact perfect spot for the Passat.

 

[sauron18]

Darkside exhaust sucks. I had it on my 15 Passat. its 2.5" exhaust and deal was too good to be true with Stevenson with DieselDNA. yep my mistake that made her run like gutless poop car that screams... literally.

changed tuner to Malone and she runs far better like a reliable 1940's sewing machine. tossed Darkside exhaust to Rawtek and omg..... she sounds better and smoother engine overall. Darkside oxygen sensor bung was on wrong position that rubbed the sensor to the engine/sensors mount....... so you get the idea.

Rawtek is 3". quality is superior and sensor bung is on the exact perfect spot for the Passat.

That's a shame. Have 22 month with my Darkside delete kit and everything is fine until now. I have seen some failure and have that on mind. Still if the downpipe flange brakes my friend will rewield it for less than $100 and he will fix that to never happen again if it does. The cheapest downpipe is de prodiesel 2.5. A friend got it and it´s fine so far.