!!! All you guys with over 100k !!! change your lifters ASAP

[BuzzMC]

Yeah, I have a hard time believing an engine with the proper amount of oil in it to start with, could be starved at high rpm.

0w-30, waaaaay too hot, maybe. But the correct type of oil, and not extremely low on oil, I don't think unless you do a 125mph, 2hr run, that you could get the oil so hot to do this kind of damage.

My oil pressure gauge reads almost 100psi when cold, and after the car is warmed up at idle only reads 20-ish, but just off idle it climbs rapidly, and usually sits between 60-80psi. Plenty of pressure, plenty quick.

So unless Boost was running 2 quarts, I don't really think this could be the problem....

 

[powaw]

Could be...

It could be true that the stock oil pump is sufficient. It could also be true that the oil he was running was sufficient. His pictures definately show that he ran out of oil in any event. Whether his oil was totally wrong for the app(my number one hunch), there was not enough flow(my number two hunch), or a combination of both really doesn't matter. Maybe he has a foreign object blocking an oil galley in the block somewhere. I just wanted to illustrate that it wasn't the lifters fault. Technically you want more oil volume and not more oil pressure. Your pressure gauge is measuring resistance to flow, not units of oil past a given point per unit time. That is why you have more pressure when it's cold(thick oil giving more resistance to flow than the warm oil). If the oil was the problem and he had a higher volume pump he may have been okay...In the end though I'm just don't think the lifters where the problem.

 

[Nutsnbolts]

Forwarded from
another link...

Check out my threads- my car was one of the first reported (to this site) with this exact failure. The point to note is that they failed at 235,000 miles, just 55,000 miles into my 80,000 mile timing belt. I have done all of the timing belt changes in this car except the first one at 60,000, and people that know me know that it has to be right before it is even started. I also use Delvac exclusively, so that rules out lubrication quality issues. I drive 50,000 miles a year, and am doing oil changes every 10K, or about every 10 weeks. I have had no issues since last February when this happened, and when I do the 300K timing belt I'll post another thread (should be around the 1st of May).

Check these out:

This post is regarding the actual failure:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...ghlight=lifter

This is the repair that followed, done in my dirt driveway in the middle of a New Hampshire February chill:
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread...ghlight=lifter

-Rich
__________________
2000 Jetta, Silver/Blk lea, LED lighting. 290,000 miles now, only 210,000 more to go!!!

 

[BoosTDIt]

Darn Rich....same exact deal...
45-50k a year for me...
Mobil 1 0w40 for 10k intervals till 100k since the first oil change at 5k.
then 7k intervals till 135k then 5k intervals till now 153k...lifters failed at 151k....


so far so good ...did 3 engine flushes ...collected some debry from the magnet-drain plug..

 

[n1das]

Darn Rich....same exact deal...
45-50k a year for me...
Mobil 1 0w40 for 10k intervals till 100k since the first oil change at 5k.
then 7k intervals till 135k then 5k intervals till now 153k...lifters failed at 151k....


so far so good ...did 3 engine flushes ...collected some debry from the magnet-drain plug..

Same deal for me....55+ k/year. I'm now at 203k miles on my 02 Golf. You guys have me worried now! My 3rd TB change (80k interval) is scheduled to be done at 240k w/HermTDI. We'll be inspecting the cam followers VERY carefully during the TB change. We'll have new ones ready to install if needed.

Delvac 1 (5W-40) has been used since the 2nd oil change at 10k miles. The first OC was done with Shell Rotella T synthetic (5W-40) because I hadn't located D1 yet. I also did an OC at 15k miles w/D1 because I didn't read my owner's manual carefully at first and assumed the OCI was the same as a gasser (5k miles). Oh well, no harm done. I did the next change at 20k miles w/D1 and then it's been changed every 10k ever since.

You guys have me worried now!

 

[Frank M]

Where do all the bad lifters get sold?

The J version lifters look identical - everyone's guessing the difference is in the material hardness treatments...
Guys don't wait for my pictures.....change those Old lifers and don't do 10k anymore - believe me!

Hhmmmmm, I wonder what happens to the thousands of lifters that are not the "J" type .....

Where does VW and the manufacturer get rid of them....
hhhhhhmmm

 

[BoosTDIt]

Hhmmmmm, I wonder what happens to the thousands of lifters that are not the "J" type .....

Where does VW and the manufacturer get rid of them....
hhhhhhmmm

Don't know.....mine are in the trash...exept the one with the hole in it for sou venier

 

[Muggins]

This thread is fascinating but also disturbing to me because I too am using a 0W40 oil (Esso XD-3 Extra), a synthetic CI-4 lube for modern heavy and light-duty diesels with EGR.

I know some of you guys are only guessing it was the oil that was the culprit for the lifter failure, but why should it have much impact when the zero-weight only affects (enhances/improves) flowability at frigid temps?

What I mean is the 40-weight guarantees more than enough film strength and shear stability, no?

I'm just thinking out loud and hoping those who condemn the 0-weight oil as the culprit are wrong.

Here's the product data sheet on the oil I'm talking about. What do you all think?

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf

 

[BoosTDIt]

Honestly....i have no idea ... i realy don't know what to think

 

[LNXGUY]

This thread is fascinating but also disturbing to me because I too am using a 0W40 oil (Esso XD-3 Extra), a synthetic CI-4 lube for modern heavy and light-duty diesels with EGR.

I know some of you guys are only guessing it was the oil that was the culprit for the lifter failure, but why should it have much impact when the zero-weight only affects (enhances/improves) flowability at frigid temps?

What I mean is the 40-weight guarantees more than enough film strength and shear stability, no?

I'm just thinking out loud and hoping those who condemn the 0-weight oil as the culprit are wrong.

Here's the product data sheet on the oil I'm talking about. What do you all think?

http://www.imperialoil.ca/Canada-English/Files/Products_Lubes/IOCAENCVLESEsso_Xd-3_extra.pdf

Gary,


Proof enough for me that XD-3 works was the way my lifters looked when we did my TB... You saw them for yourself.. And that was after what, 330,000km's? I have to change my cam seal soon, I'll double check when I do that, but I am not going to get all excited over nothing...

Bill

 

[Muggins]

Yeah, Bill,

But how long have you used the Esso product compared to your overall mileage?

Also, I recall you replaced the cam seal when you did the TB. Are you sure it's leaking?

Gary

 

[BoosTDIt]

Well what about the NEW Standard award winning oil in the VW 507. spec from Mobil 1 is the ESP 5w30 ???

It's in the oils&lube forums

 

[LNXGUY]

Yeah, Bill,

But how long have you used the Esso product compared to your overall mileage?

Also, I recall you replaced the cam seal when you did the TB. Are you sure it's leaking?

Gary

Cam seal is still leaking I gotta get some time to borrow Garry's tool kit.. I have used the XD-3 for about 150,000km's... Overall mileage is 343,000..

 

[Frank M]

Cam seal is still leaking I gotta get some time

did you buy the seal at the dealer?
here is my experience:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=104157

 

[LNXGUY]

did you buy the seal at the dealer?
here is my experience:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=104157

JasonTDi was kind enough to send me 2 spares Although I didn't notice a keylock on the cam during the install, I'll make sure I tape whatever is inthe way before the new seal goes on... I just hate the fact that I have to pull everything JUST to replace the cam seal.. What a pita...

 

[Frank M]

JasonTDi was kind enough to send me 2 spares Although I didn't notice a keylock on the cam during the install, I'll make sure I tape whatever is inthe way before the new seal goes on... I just hate the fact that I have to pull everything JUST to replace the cam seal.. What a pita...

you do not have to pull everything.
remove cam cover and lock cam, lock i.p., remove cam pulley and keep belt tight with a bungee cord..
replace seal and slide gear with belt back on..
will take abour 45 minutes..

I would get a cam seal at the dealer... cost $5
see my previous post on aftermarket seals....

 

[BoosTDIt]

i'm glad Troy replaced my cam seal then...

 

[LNXGUY]

you do not have to pull everything.
remove cam cover and lock cam, lock i.p., remove cam pulley and keep belt tight with a bungee cord..
replace seal and slide gear with belt back on..
will take abour 45 minutes..

I would get a cam seal at the dealer... cost $5
see my previous post on aftermarket seals....

I am pretty sure the ones Jason sent me is OEM, but I will double check... thanks for the info Frank.. Any more info on the bungee cord trick? No need to loosen the tensioner?

 

[Frank M]

I am pretty sure the ones Jason sent me is OEM, but I will double check... thanks for the info Frank.. Any more info on the bungee cord trick? No need to loosen the tensioner?

yes, loosen the tensioner.
if you have a groove worn in your cam from your seal you would have to get a speedi-sleeve or replace the cam.
other wise if the cam is smooth just a seal from the dealer should fix it.

 

[jasonTDI]

The cam seals are made by the same manufacturer in the same plant, have all the same casting numbers too. Not even the DEALER ones say VW/AUDI.

 

[Frank M]

The cam seals are made by the same manufacturer in the same plant, have all the same casting numbers .

not true.
there are many different manufacturers of seals.
the one i had the bad experience with was made by Victor.

besides, so what if a part is made by the same company on the same machines, etc..
They have no logos or other identification markings. where do they sell their rejects? Why would a manufacturer sell them cheaper? Do any of us work for less money for our competitor?

Over the years, I have replaced millions of dollars of parts and as I stated before, parts from the dealers are consistent for quality and fit. This can not be said for aftermarket parts...Thats a crap shoot..
Lets not even get into counterfeiting... A world wide problem..

Lets not post here with an agenda. It can be played on others that are eager to learn and have little or no experience.

 

[jasonTDI]

They DO have the same manufacturer marks and size stamps. Even the ones from VW and Audi don't have their mark on them any longer. I checked the ones I bought from them in the past. All DPH seals.

 

[robnitro]

Hey, I wonder if this is happening more to people with the Single Mass Flywheel which may be giving less "shock" to the valves?

I ask because my 01 TDI with 95k miles has followers that look fine. I got to see em while putting in the ARP headstuds. I did clean the oil off of them.

 

[oldpoopie]

Check again at 140k or more. I had a dmf and mine were screwed as well.

 

[Franko6]

Something else happened to cause your meltdown. I've gotten too many lifters over 200,000 to believe they need changed like timing belts.

 

[jasonTDI]

Franko, it's probably bad metallurgy. Too many stock cars with the same issue. I see it fairly often.

 

[BoosTDIt]

Yep it's a hardness issue...
and the new more expenssive "J" version are worth it..don't get the cheap ones guys

 

[Franko6]

Metallurgy, jasonTDI? I have trouble with that. The metals and techniques are so regimented for production of parts like this, they either make it a REAL LONG time, or fail quickly.

In the olden days of NA diesels, 15/40 Rotella was the undoubted king. But I would NEVER use a 0/ 30-40 oil in a diesel and don't understand the logic. If you are so worried about quick lube to your turbo, figure out a pump that pre-lubes the engine.

But here is an issue that nobody has considered. Heavier oil doesn't necessarily mean better film. Thinner oil doesn't necesarily mean a more instant reaction to start-up lubricity.

Example: John Deere R & D did some interesting tests on 150+ hp tractor transmissions about 20 yrs ago. The heavier oil was causing tooth surface shear under extreme loading. They ended up trying a lighter hypoid oil. The thinner oil got into the gears better and surface galling disappeared. Also, the thinner oil had better heat transfer capability. There are a lot of dynamics going on.

Obviously, the TDI's run hotter than their naturally aspirated predecessors. That has changed my oil choice to the Moblie 1 SUV 5/30 synthetic (I think they've recently changed the designation from SUV). It has better heat dissipaton and breakdown qualities than the 15/40 Rotella.

I think that the hard driving is what the beast is intended to do, but NOT with cold oil. The viscosity has not reached it's proper point and I think either very cold oil or very hot oil is where the galling occurs between lifter and lobe. Once you begin the process of galling a lobe, it is a increasing spiral to death of both camshaft and lifter.

I've read one post that said oil temp lagged water temp. I'm not surprised. You want to 'get it on', why don't you wait about 10 minutes after startup?

I think these engines can go and go and go at 80 mph. But the chippers HAVE to think. Underpowered = longer life. Overpowered = shorter life. It seems for the 1.9, the weak link may be the lifters. Particularly if you are going to go for more sizzle out of your engine, oil temp is an important instrument to watch. If you see that oil become fryer hot, maybe it's time to either consider additional oil cooling capacity or stop cobbing it.

Roller cams, anybody?

 

[jasonTDI]

VW changed the lifters. Not just the part number. It could be cold oil and abuse but that does not account for the stock cars with 60K miles failing. It' the crap recycled metal they are using.

 

[jasonTDI]

Also the 5w30 does not carry a CI rating just CH. 15W40 non-synthetic is a big no-no in these cars. They have a completely different ring design than the older VW Diesels.