alignment help

[jrm]

hello, im on my 2nd TDI nms and both wore the inside of the front's out fast, my current 2015 wore them to the cords yet vw says the alignment is in spec. does anyone have the recommend specs for the front end that I can give to a independent shop? The car drives perfect, just the inside edge of the front tires to the steel before the tire is halfway to the wear bars.
Thanks guys

 

[DivineChaos]

Just bring with t to an independent shop and explain your problem. They are capable of looking up specs in their system. Also tires are supposed to be rotated every 10k

 

[jrm]

well yeah, its blown the inside out of all 4 over the last year.

 

[thundershorts]

It would help if you gave us current readings with new tires. Find a shop known for good alignment work or at least go to a dealer such as porsche or audi: Tell them to set the machine to minutes rather than tenths, Have them set front toe to zero, rear toe to zero with 1 degree negative camber. Left and right caster and camber of front should be reasonably close. Zero is within spec although some will argue that it is not. I.ve only been doing alignments for 55 years. Tires on my 2015 passat sel have 60k on them and wear flat across tread. Still have 5/32 front and 6/32 rear tread.

 

[jrm]

thank you thundershorts, this is the info i needed- some shops wont touch the subframe....i know nothing about alignments but i know enough to know eating the inside to the steel in 40k while the rest of the tire has half its tread left isnt normal, major neg camber (handles great). will take it to a good indy shop with your info. thanks again!

 

[thundershorts]

Have the shop start with setting front toe to zero. It will then be apparent if left and right caster and camber angles are close. If they are not close, its very likely subframe is shifted out of position. Its not uncommon and often easy to correct simply by loosening subframe bolts and it will pop back into position, then retighten bolts in correct sequence. If shop is unwilling to do it this way, call another shop.

 

[740GLE]

What tires? 16, 17 or 18?

If you're rotating ever 5-10K all 4 should have inners worn correct?

 

[oilhammer]

Every NMS I see has the inside edges worn faster than the rest of the tire (lots of cars are like this). The wider the tire, lower profile, larger wheels, the faster it happens. But what is also quite common on the NMS is the control arms' rear compliance bushings tearing fairly early on, and that can cause some strange issues, too.

But since you asked:

Rear axle:

camber -1.20 +/- .30' (slightly negative)

total toe +10' +/-10' (so, slightly positive)

...and those values are easily adjustable on the NMS.

Front axle:

camber -21' or -30' (depending on suspension package)

total toe +10' +/- 10'

There is no camber adjustment specific for the front, however the TOTAL cross camber CAN be slightly adjusted by centering the subframe. But it is a take from one side give to the other side sort of thing, as it moves BOTH the control arms' pivot points. If the front's camber cannot be brought into spec, something is bent (usually a strut). Toe is obviously easy.

 

[thundershorts]

Running The specs I posted, 2013 passat sel 67000 miles at buyback, front tires were 5/32 wearing flat across, 2015 passat sel 60k miles same 5/32F 6/32R. total toe 0 Rear tires also wearing evenly flat across toe rear zero and 1 degree negative camber. Plenty of steering return. if you like buying tires, by all means ignore my post. My settings are all within factory specs. For some reason unknown to me, people like to set toe to middle of the green. On our Passats, toe drastically affects camber, wearing inside of front tires prematurely.

 

[oilhammer]

Well toe in the "middle" would be positive slightly, and that would help with inner edge wear. Of course, the modern machines (and by that, I mean all of them since the '70s I suppose), use the rear axle as a basis for the front axle to make the car go down the road straight with the steering wheel centered, so if the rear axle is not set right, the front will just get set to compensate (toe, anyway). Hunter calls this 'WinToe'. It works great, but again, it can mask laziness in other adjustments. And of course, in salty areas the rear eccentrics can get stuck... the only way to fix this sometimes is to just drop the whole rear subframe assembly and take everything apart and replace things that don't want to cooperate. But most of the NMS cars shouldn't yet have that issue I hope. Especially in Oregon.

 

[thundershorts]

I was recently at north penn vw for a possible oil leak to be checked out before my power train warranty expired and they checked alignment as part of their service. To my surprise, alignment readings were still same as 60000 miles ago. Some dealers use a less expensive system that doesn't give exact readings, just good or bad. Although their printout was in tenths rather than minutes of a degree, it showed the toe had stayed at zero front and rear with rear camber 1 1/2 degrees negative. I don't get to drive this car often, gf does. I don't rotate tires either which i'm sure will invite arguments. On a straight stretch of road, on the crown, it tracks straight for 1/4 or more mile hands off steering wheel.

 

[thundershorts]

In the days when 2 wheel alignment was only available, you could follow a car and see all 4 tires as it was crabbing down the road with the driver totally oblivious. I feel the road force wheel balance was invented to make bad tires almost acceptable masking the fault. It might have a good purpose on very high speeds as there are no perfect tires.