Alh to 2014 jetta, is this possible?

Master Scott

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Hello all, im wondering if you could put a alh into a newer style jetta, would it be more hard then what its worth? Im just curious
 

jayb79

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I can't see how it would be harder than putting one in a Toyota. Seems like this question has come up before.
 

PickleRick

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So sounds illegal if you have any sort of emissions check, the EPA now browses and reports for sale ads on Craigslist/Facebook market place of they find any EPA violations. If you ever decided to sell it you could get reported even if you don't have emissions checks. Our government funded tax dollars hard at work, keeping you from building a reliable vehicle that gets terrific fuel mileage (and you're recycling at the same time)

You cannot legally install an older motor into an newer vehicle.
 

dieseldonato

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So sounds illegal if you have any sort of emissions check, the EPA now browses and reports for sale ads on Craigslist/Facebook market place of they find any EPA violations. If you ever decided to sell it you could get reported even if you don't have emissions checks. Our government funded tax dollars hard at work, keeping you from building a reliable vehicle that gets terrific fuel mileage (and you're recycling at the same time)

You cannot legally install an older motor into an newer vehicle.
you can with the provision it keeps all the emissions compliance equipment from the model year of the vehicle. There is a proviso if the engine was offered in that platform as a option. It can be difficult to prove for some engines depending on where your located, but the fun part is it typically goes off a body style so split year engine changes could be possible. It all depends on how much red tape and fighting you want to do.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
In the US, you cannot put an older engine into a newer car. You technically cannot even put a 2000 ALH engine into a 2001 ALH car (ask me how I found that out).

But you could "bolt it in" easily, and make it run... but getting the rest of the car's systems to integrate would not be possible... you'd almost have to have a "dummy" engine controller running nothing, but talking to everyone else, to keep it all happy. It would be difficult, to say the least. The EDC15 Bosch system is barely a step above an electronic carburetor in terms of engine management complexity (one of the reasons they are so reliable).
 

Lug_Nut

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You CAN put an older year engine in a newer model year car (ask me how I found that out).
However, the requirements to be met are the newer of the two. My 1996 engine had to meet the more strict 1997 emissions compliance requirements when I swapped it into the GLX. My next swap was easier a 1997 engine into a 1995 Cabrio.
The amount to work needed to get a 1998~2004 ALH to meet 2014 requirements, US or Canadian? Good luck with that....
 

dieseldonato

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That is not what the law says. It's based off of emission certifications for the model or newer stadards. If a 2000 engine has the same certification as a 2001 engine you can swap them. If you can make a 1904 knox engine complient for a 2020 model year standards it can be swapped. There was a memo from the epa I believe it was A1 that detailed what was and wasn't allowed. You could grab any engine as long as it can be made to meet current or newer emissions standards.
 

PickleRick

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you can with the provision it keeps all the emissions compliance equipment from the model year of the vehicle. There is a proviso if the engine was offered in that platform as a option. It can be difficult to prove for some engines depending on where your located, but the fun part is it typically goes off a body style so split year engine changes could be possible. It all depends on how much red tape and fighting you want to do.

Unfortunately I only wish this was true. In USA the engine needs to be from same year or newer vehicle plus similar vehicle (car to car or truck to truck). I sold a 1991 built (date tag on engine plus emissions) 4bd1t Isuzu 3.9 l diesel into an 1986 fj60 Toyota. The isuzu came out of a 1991 npr box truck. It doubled the factory mpg and had newer emissions, it was also alternative fuel friendly. Being that it wasn't from a passenger vehicle it failed the visual test in Colorado The owner I sold it to, who drove all the way from the east coast with it, bought a vehicle he couldn't register. They wouldn't even test the emissions, they failed it on sight alone.
 

oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Yep, has to be newer. I actually had to take an engine BACK OUT because the insurance company (cratered oil pan) found out it was out of an older car (both were ALHs). The engine I took out was in better shape with lower miles, too... go figure. Same engine, same emissions regs, but one model year older. Makes no sense. And they'd never have known, except the insurance company sourced the engine, not us, so... they knew because they had the VIN from the donor car. Their mistake, paid me twice.
 

dieseldonato

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Unfortunately I only wish this was true. In USA the engine needs to be from same year or newer vehicle plus similar vehicle (car to car or truck to truck). I sold a 1991 built (date tag on engine plus emissions) 4bd1t Isuzu 3.9 l diesel into an 1986 fj60 Toyota. The isuzu came out of a 1991 npr box truck. It doubled the factory mpg and had newer emissions, it was also alternative fuel friendly. Being that it wasn't from a passenger vehicle it failed the visual test in Colorado The owner I sold it to, who drove all the way from the east coast with it, bought a vehicle he couldn't register. They wouldn't even test the emissions, they failed it on sight alone.
That's heavy duty, to light duty can't do that.
 

dieseldonato

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Yep, has to be newer. I actually had to take an engine BACK OUT because the insurance company (cratered oil pan) found out it was out of an older car (both were ALHs). The engine I took out was in better shape with lower miles, too... go figure. Same engine, same emissions regs, but one model year older. Makes no sense. And they'd never have known, except the insurance company sourced the engine, not us, so... they knew because they had the VIN from the donor car. Their mistake, paid me twice.
No it does not. It has to have the same certification. That was your insurance company being jerks. A 2000 alh engine meets the same certification as a 2001 alh. Don't confuse insurance company bs with the actual law.
 

dieseldonato

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An ALH isn't going to meet any post 2003 emission regs so its not going to help the OP.
Not without work, and money invested. You clearly miss the point. If he want to run an old engine it needs to be brought up to the current model years emission standards. That's all that is federally required.
This is the last memo that was produced regarding engine swaps by the epa. The dep has an artical about engine conversions, and how they need to be in compliance as well. There is no federal reason any engine can't be swapped into any newer vehicle if you can make it meet the new vehicles emission standards.
State requirements are different, which is stupid. I can swap whatever I want here in PA, get an enhanced inspection, titled as a modified vehicle and be perfectly legal so long as it meets the current vehicles emission standards. That is the only federal requirement.
 

turbobrick240

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So, possible, but not practical. The commonrails are great diesel engines anyhow. Toss a CP3 on one and it will run and run with the best of them. The emissions system will need periodic replacement, but that's just how it is- unless you're comfortable skirting those regs.
 

dieseldonato

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That explains why Cat is offering "rebuilt" truck diesels with new blocks, cranks, heads, etc. but a few old parts so they can call it "rebuilt" and installed in a newer truck...
Depends on what it's going in, replacement engine it's fine, so long as it neets that modle years trucks emissions. Which limits and cat on road engine to a pre 2007 truck. but there was an epa phase 2 something or other, thay was supposed to hit in 21 or 22 with installing "reman" engines into glider kits that don't meet current emission standards. The glider kit is a new truck, with no engine. Basically 2 things happened when the on road standard was set with a 2007 in service date, a huge pre buy in 05 and 06, and an explosion of glider sales after 07. So naturally the government had to step in and smack everyone down again.
 

dieseldonato

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So, possible, but not practical. The commonrails are great diesel engines anyhow. Toss a CP3 on one and it will run and run with the best of them. The emissions system will need periodic replacement, but that's just how it is- unless you're comfortable skirting those regs.
In a nutshell yes.
 

PickleRick

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That's heavy duty, to light duty can't do that.
Yes, like I said needs to be a similar vehicle, car to car or truck to truck. The NPR trucks also came with the 5.7 Chevy v8 engine option(same as Chevy/GMC 1500 to 2500 pickup/suburban of same era). The EPA makes zero sense.

And for the record a 4bd1t, it's a medium duty diesel making about the same power as a 7.3 idi or gm 6.2. even in marine applications they were used in lighter weight boats. If you wanted heavy duty you had to step up to the 6bd engines. Much like the 4bt vs 6bt it's the same motor plus or minus some cylinders. Even the final upgraded version with factory intercooler 4bd2t made less than 150hp. They would push a 5 ton cab over, just wouldn't do it fast or up hill. They were hell on the automatic transmissions.
 
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dieseldonato

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Yes, like I said needs to be a similar vehicle, car to car or truck to truck. The NPR trucks also came with the 5.7 Chevy v8 engine option(same as Chevy/GMC 2500 to 3500 pickup/suburban of same era). The EPA makes zero sense.

And for the record a 4bd1t, it's a medium duty diesel making about the same power as a 7.3 idi or gm 6.2. even in marine applications they were used in lighter weight boats. If you wanted heavy duty you had to step up to the 6bd engines. Much like the 4bt vs 6bt it's the same motor plus or minus some cylinders. Even the final upgraded version with factory intercooler 4bd2t made less than 150hp. They would push a 5 ton cab over, just wouldn't do it fast or up hill. They here hell on the automatic transmissions.
I don't understand it either, as like you say there is a lot of carry over from "light duty" to "heavy duty" with more or less arbitrary verbiage to discern what is what. It's mostly political pandering and has nothing to do with actual emissions, or efficiency.
 

Master Scott

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in canada we don't have any laws on putting different engines in, bodys, nothing. no epa, no tests, for safeties in manitoba the car doesn't even need a engine you can roll it in and roll it out. I haven't even heard of the different engine rule before till right now, this was very good information from everyone.
 
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oilhammer

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There are just too many to list....
Canada most certainly does have their version of the EPA, LMAO.... They enacted it one year after the US did, and that was over 50 years ago.

" The Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) got its official start on December 2, 1970. In neighboring Canada, Environment Canada got its official start on June 11, 1971. EPA and Environment Canada share a commitment to protecting the environment, especially by preventing pollution. "
 

PickleRick

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Canada is way more lax with their EPA, you guys got all the good diesel powered land cruisers and the 70 series cruisers we couldn't get until they were 25+ years old.
 

Steve Addy

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That explains why Cat is offering "rebuilt" truck diesels with new blocks, cranks, heads, etc. but a few old parts so they can call it "rebuilt" and installed in a newer truck...
There's an extensive and growing industry now devoted exclusively to reviving pre-Obama EPA era HD trucks and putting them back on the road.

Steve
 

gearheadgrrrl

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They're out there, but the numbers of operators willing to distract themselves from profitable driving to rebuild 16 years and older trucks is dwindling. For Cat, this is sadly SOP- they gave up on making EPA legal new engines in 2010 and locomotives in 2015, killing the legacy of EMD.
 

Steve Addy

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They're out there, but the numbers of operators willing to distract themselves from profitable driving to rebuild 16 years and older trucks is dwindling. For Cat, this is sadly SOP- they gave up on making EPA legal new engines in 2010 and locomotives in 2015, killing the legacy of EMD.
I'm not suggesting drivers are doing the rebuilding...I'm suggesting that shops are rebuilding / overhauling trucks for resale purposes.

Steve
 

gearheadgrrrl

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A few, but not many- If you've got the skills to completely rebuild a truck you can get paid a lot better working for a dealership or even indy shop and probably get health insurance too. Big truck order banks are still at record levels and even at their peak gliders were only 5% of the market, so very few are completely rebuilding old trucks. 21st century Cat engines were hard to justify when you could by a new truck with one, and they haven't improved with age...
 

Steve Addy

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A few, but not many- If you've got the skills to completely rebuild a truck you can get paid a lot better working for a dealership or even indy shop and probably get health insurance too. Big truck order banks are still at record levels and even at their peak gliders were only 5% of the market, so very few are completely rebuilding old trucks. 21st century Cat engines were hard to justify when you could by a new truck with one, and they haven't improved with age...
I didn't quantify the number because I don't know, but I do know that there's interest in it and activity in rebuilding because people aren't happy with the emissions equipment.

Steve
 

dieseldonato

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I didn't quantify the number because I don't know, but I do know that there's interest in it and activity in rebuilding because people aren't happy with the emissions equipment.

Steve
It's all pretty easy to rebuild till the chassis and cab become too far gone. We scrapped a lot of single axle and 10 wheeler dumps from the double frames splitting. Once the rust sets in and they start to split there isn't much you can do to save them. New frame for a gmc8500 double frame single axle was only around $6k but the labor was just as much to swap everything over. Not counting anything that was found wrong, and no rebuilding of the engine, transmission, or axles. The truck isn't worth $20k on a good day. Let alone if everything is going to be rebuilt or replaced. You'll get just as much as buying a new truck. Semi trucks are more expensive. Last c15 acert engine I rebuilt was $30k in parts and labor. All cat parts, aftermarket would have saved a few bones, but not really worth it imo.
 

Alberta 7.3

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Even if legally the engine could be swapped, your insurance company might have a dim view of it. When I was building my 97 F250, I replaced the blown up 7.5l (460) gas engine with the 7.3 that my 97 donor truck had. Even though it was all legal using all Ford parts and the trucks were the same GVW class, model year, and the engines produce roughly the same hp/torque, my insurance company considers it a "performance upgrade" and they will only offer me liability on what they consider a "modified vehicle."
 
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