ALH Rebuild Break-In Oil

[GMAURTDI]

Hello,
I am just about finished doing an ALH rebuilt from a spare engine of mine and had some Questions about proper break-in oil to seat the rings.
(A working 380K ALH was dismantled and honed with new rings, bearings and a rebuilt head is being used)
I've heard some say to use Synthetic right out of the Gate, some to use non-Synthetic and some to use specific Break-In Oil (Like Joe Gibbs or AMSOil). Can you comment?
Also - I'm getting the feeling that a 5-10KM first run (after fully warmed up) is all that should be done before changing the oil (to a Synthetic?).
I'm in Canada so my choice of oils is somewhat limited. I was planning to use Rotella T6 once the first pass has been done.
Any comments on this?

 

[South Coast Guy]

Break-in oils? Do they reall exist?

 

[40X40]

Break-in oils? Do they reall exist?

Yes, they do. Joe Gibbs BR oils, for example.

Bill

 

[rackaracka]

I have a rebuilt ALH that was burning oil at the rate of a quart per fuel tank. The engine was run on Castrol 5w40 VW Spec oil for its first 10k - but it should have been run on Break IN Oil... I got some Joe Gibbs from Frank06 and ran it for about 500 miles. When I say I ran it, I didn't abuse the car but I pushed it hard. Long uphill pulls up to the redline in 3rd gear. Then I changed the oil to Delvac1 5w40 and changed it again in 1000 miles.

Break In oils are recommended.

 

[GMAURTDI]

rackaracka:

Have you had any issues burning oil since you used the Break-In Oil?

Any idea where I can get this stuff in Eastern Ontario?

 

[rackaracka]

Oh.. I guess that's an important point. Oil consumption went down to about 1/2 quart in 10,000 miles.

Franko6 shipped it to me, in the US. I would think you can source it locally if you search.

 

[South Coast Guy]

Yes, they do. Joe Gibbs BR oils, for example.

Bill

From Amazon.com website:
Joe Gibbs Racing Oil BR Break-In Oil is designed to protect camshafts and lifters as well as offers excellent ring seal. It provides high level of zinc, phosphorous and sulphur in mineral based oil. This oil requires no additives and should be preheated to 180F before firing the engine for maximum performance. It is compatible with methanol as well as high octane race fuels and is sold in case packs of twelve.
How do you heat the oil for your car?

 

[rackaracka]

I didn't heat it up. I just drove it around.

Not to derail your thread... but... where did you get the parts?

If they came from E-Bay or some chinese clone part supplier, you shouldn't waste your time with break in oil.

 

[GMAURTDI]

I got it all from Peter at IDParts...so most of it is Factory VW.

That OK?

I was speaking with Frank yesterday and he recommended getting 10 Quarts and doing 2 passes with the BR Oil.

The first being a 30 minute warmup, then change.

The next being a 500Mile trip, then change to what is going to be in it for the rest of it's life.

Any comments?

 

[rackaracka]

I would do exactly as Frank has recommended. Good luck and glad to hear you sourced quality parts! Too many new members of the club fall into the trap of buying from low cost eBay vendors and wind up here after catasrophic failure of the new parts.

 

[oilhammer]

I fill them up with the same oil they normally run, same as the factory did, and do a change after about 5k miles, just as the factory recommended, then every 10k miles (16k km) thereafter.

You may notice some oil consumption early on, but it should taper off. My own ALH which I installed new rods, pistons, rings, and cylinder head on at 383k miles used 3 liters of oil from 383k to 388k, then I went to 400k and it used only about 2.5 liters. Now, the last change from 410k to 420k it used a more normal 1 liter. And so far, at 423k as of today it has not budged from full. That is pretty typical.

 

[GMAURTDI]

So the debate goes on. I guess people have had success both ways?

Is it true that VW runs synthetic in a freshly assembled crate engine from the factory?

 

[oilhammer]

I think it would be more accurate to say people have NOT had failure either way.

BTW, the first time your new car's engine was started is when it is driven off the assembly line. There is no 'run in' in the plant. These are not Ferraris. Volkswagen built some 9 million cars last year, and who knows how many more engines for industrial and marine applications. It is absurd to think that they run in every single one. That would cost MUCH more than what the random warranty engine failure would cost.

 

[Powder Hound]

Not so. The earlier in the assembly cycle you catch a failure, the less it costs. An engine failure in the field will cost 2 orders of magnitude more to fix than if it is caught in a normal run in cycle at the engine assembly plant. I have never heard of any mass builder of engines that did not run the engine after assembly to make sure it won't be doa when it hits its end user.

Obviously, you know so much more about VWs internal workings than any of us mere mortals, but can you provide evidence that VW does not run an engine after assembly and before it is shipped to the vehicle assembly plant?

 

[oilhammer]

Common sense. Porsche does not even do that. They spin a sample of their engines with compressed air, that's it. Ford does not do anything with their Cologne engines that were installed right here in STL in Explorers. They came from German dry, and I know this because I know the guy that drives for Hartog Oil Co. that drove the truck that delivered the motor oil and other fluids to the plant in Hazelwood.

A company as large as Volkswagen, that builds as many engines as Volkswagen, simply cannot spend the time and resources to "test run" every single engine. There is just no way. Nobody that builds that many engines does. How many VW engines fail right away? Hardly any. Ever. Hardly anyone's engines fail right away. So what would a test run for a few minutes really accomplish anyways if the failure rate is only .00001%? Simple math.

 

[South Coast Guy]

I worked one summer at a Chrysler assembly plant that produced cars at the rate of 50-60 an hour. At the end of the line, I got in, turned the key over and drove it to a parking lot. That was the first time the engine was started.

 

[electricplanet]

So... back to the topic, what weight of Joe gibbs BR is used? Amazon has 5w30 and 15w50 for $75.91/10 Quarts.

 

[Bob_Fout]

So... back to the topic, what weight of Joe gibbs BR is used? Amazon has 5w30 and 15w50 for $75.91/10 Quarts.

My guess is the 15w50, based on the UPC.

 

[Nutsnbolts]

I have to back up what Oilhammer said. I have rebuilt 4 of these engines now for customers, and used M1TDT right from the first turn. I tell the owners to be spirited about their driving style, don't worry about a break-in procedure, change the oil within 3000-5000 miles for the first change, and every 10k thereafter. All of those engines are running perfectly, with almost no oil comsumption after they have run about 10,000 miles.

Also, the factory is not quite as thorough as you would think- these are mass-produced products, and a certain high minimum of quality is engineered into their design and componentry, making a test of every build unnecessary. I saw a "How It's Made" episode on "diesel engines", where a V6 TDI for an Audi was being built and assembled, and laughed at the routine, almost mundane, nature of some of the processes. For example- when building engines, I was always taught to aviod putting ring gaps on the thrust side of a piston, and to try to stagger them by about 120 degrees, being extra careful about handling the whole arraingement. On this program, the rings are on the pistons, the piston is on the rod, and the set is hanging from a hook on a rack, where the builder grabs the assembly, puts it in a clamshell-style compressor and shoves it in the cylinder. Done. Time for the next one.

Again, the level of quality engineered into the assembly assures successful operation, reducing the need for shake downs, and saves a tremendous amount of money for manufacturers.

-Rich

 

[Dimitri16V]

only Ferrari and Lambo test run their engines/cars

 

[dtrvler]

I love common sense! Thanks OH!

 

[Mongler98]

I love common sense! Thanks OH!

Realy? How did this add to this thread from almost 10 years ago?
And VW did test every engine for the Phaeton and Mercedes does test every engine, same with all high end including porsche now test the high end engines. Not saying all engines do but enough to say that it's done.
As for breaking in an engine on a proper oil, many myths come from old school engines like the v8 SBC type era. Now just add some zink on a rebuild and run it for 500 miles. Then 1000 on normal. Unless of course specified by a builder or manufacturer. General rebuilds ....... eh....

 

[dtrvler]

I searched for break-in oil and found this thread. I think thread age is irrelevant. Its all information. And opinions.
What zinc do you reccomend Mongler?

 

[dtrvler]

Amsoil has a break-in oil with 2000 ppm of Phosphorus and 2000 ppm of zinc. Or slightly more actually:
From Amsoil:
As a rule of thumb, a good break-in oil should contain at least 1,000 ppm ZDDP. At AMSOIL, we take it a few steps further; our Break-In Oil contains 2,200 ppm zinc and 2,000 ppm phosphorus.

 

[Mongler98]

I searched for break-in oil and found this thread. I think thread age is irrelevant. Its all information. And opinions.
What zinc do you reccomend Mongler?

You didnt add anything to it though. Glad you found it too.
It all depends on the engine. These TDIs dont really need much. You can search how to break-in a colt cam. That's about it. Other than oil changes, that's all your "breaking in" you bed in the rings on the piston and that takes time, same with the clutch. 2 schools of though but most end up on the slow and easy mode on a properly rebuilt engine. A small engine like air cooled motorcycles ect are hard and fast method.