ALH NO START. All help wanted and appreciated.

[aidan_mkiv]

Car: 2002 ALH Jetta, 5 speed conversion, EGR/ASV delete, chiptune.

Okay, so long story short, stupid teenage me did a burnout at a diesel truck show trying to show off. Redlined it at about 5k for a few seconds, let off to get it off redline, and got back in the throttle to go back up, but it did not go back up. It just revved down and died. Would not start again and had to get it towed home. Has been almost 3 weeks now since it has ran.

Things I have tried/troubleshooted:

-Fuel solenoid clicks and has 12v to it on IP.

-Glow plug light comes on when I turn the key.

-Timing is dead on.

-I have fuel coming out of injectors if I crack them (does not spray out like some people say it should, but a good bit comes out).

-Relay 109 seems good since glow plug and engine light come on.

-IP case pressure valve looks good.

-Tried starting without intake hose hooked up (in case of blocked turbo)

-I did have 3 codes:
>one being for egr(deleted)
>a P0228 (Throttle pedal position sensor) signal too high-intermittent
>a P1540 (Vehicle Speed Signal) -signal too high
>(I am not sure if these could cause a no start, I was not able to find anything)

-Checked fusebox inside driver door, all good

-Glow plugs and harness were replaced under a year ago.


I think that is all I've checked but will edit if I remember something else.

I am really stumped on this one, let me know if you guys have any ideas. They are all appreciated. Thanks.

 

[LNXGUY]

Check the pump timing again.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

Check the pump timing again.

Iv'e checked it a few times now, to no avail.

 

[BobnOH]

Clear the codes, do they come right back?

 

[aidan_mkiv]

Clear the codes, do they come right back?

No, but I would assume this is because it can't run...

 

[LNXGUY]

Iv'e checked it a few times now, to no avail.

You've sure you've got the locking pin completely in?

 

[UhOh]

OP, could you please state exactly how it is that you're checking "timing?"

 

[Growler]

He has the metalnerd timing tools. he did not hit the sucker hole with the pin from what he told me. he used a mirror and saw the correct diameter round hole for the pin to go in.

I chatted with him last night and am stumped. I walked him thru the case pressure relief valve check and reseating to no avail.

he gets a slobbering of fuel when cranking, but couldnt tell if its spurting while cranking.. its a bit subjective based on how loose he got the injector nuts IMHO.

he has VCDS, there are videos on facebook on the vw tdi owners group if someone wants to find them.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

Found a thread on here somewhere that said to check measuring block 001 and 019...not sure what to do with that information but it looks like its getting the fuel it needs...

 

[aidan_mkiv]

Here is a video of cranking on measuring block 001

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JwL8x7NIfE

 

[Rembrant]

Any chance it swallowed a slug of oil from the intercooler?

 

[aidan_mkiv]

Any chance it swallowed a slug of oil from the intercooler?

I drilled mine a few months ago at 100k and it was bone dry. I have a tacotaco now. Any way to check if this had happened but I don't think so...

 

[whitedog]

First, pull the glow plugs and try cranking it to see if you are getting a good mist of fuel coming out of the holes.

If you are not, troubleshoot why not.

If you are, check compression.

My gut feeling is something in the pump came uncorked.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

First, pull the glow plugs and try cranking it to see if you are getting a good mist of fuel coming out of the holes.

If you are not, troubleshoot why not.

If you are, check compression.

My gut feeling is something in the pump came uncorked.

Hmm, like how much of a misting? Going to check in the morning.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

So I was told to see if I get a mist. Took a video while I cranked it and it does not look like I have any misting going on out of the glow plug holes. I get fuel running out when I crack the injectors though. Is there a certain pressure needed to activate the injectors that is not getting high enough?

 

[whitedog]

That's what I am thinking. The low pressure part of the injection pump will still flow fuel out each injector line, but its not enough pressure to open the Injectors. If you want to be sure, you could pull an injector and move its fuel line so you can hook up the injector outside of the engine and - keeping all body parts away from the injector - crank the engine.

But I am more convinced there is a problem with the pump. It's not a cheap part to replace, so its always best to have a definitive diagnosis.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

That's what I am thinking. The low pressure part of the injection pump will still flow fuel out each injector line, but its not enough pressure to open the Injectors. If you want to be sure, you could pull an injector and move its fuel line so you can hook up the injector outside of the engine and - keeping all body parts away from the injector - crank the engine.

But I am more convinced there is a problem with the pump. It's not a cheap part to replace, so its always best to have a definitive diagnosis.

I am thinking thats what it must be...I get no mist at all so I don't think its pushing enough pressure. Gonna see if I can't pull an injector out tomorrow and see if it will spray. If no spray, whats the next step? New pump?

 

[whitedog]

It could still be something electrical and I would try to eliminate that first. Does the pump make sounds when you turn the key on? I'm pretty sure that is all working since the IQ goes up and down in that video. You can get the pump rebuilt, or get a rebuilt one.

DON'T get one from Prothe. Search that name here for more information.

 

[UhOh]

What happens when the fuel shut-off solenoid fails? I know there are instances in which power to it gets lost. Does it completely shut-off fuel, or perhaps only the high pressure side? (sorry if I sound ignorant here, cause I am!)

 

[aidan_mkiv]

The pump itself does not seem to make any sounds but I do hear the relay click when I turn the key. What electrical things can I check?

 

[UhOh]

I believe that the shutoff solenoid will click(?) and that you should hear the QA sweep (a power draw to run the QA through its full range). Probably would want to have have your head down by the IP as the ignition is turned on (BUT DON'T CRANK! wouldn't want to have the car magically start and then run you over!)

 

[aidan_mkiv]

I have those noises on my IP...what's the next thing to check...really need to diagnose this soon so I can get the parts I need.

 

[whitedog]

The solenoid is clicking, the actuator is moving. The next Thing I would do is carefully mark the top sections of the pump as if you were resealing it and inspect for broken parts but I'm not sure you would be able to see anything broken. At some point you need to buck up and decide it's the pump. Maybe try to find one from a running engine for a couple hundred bucks and see if works. Find a new buddy with a car that broke a timing belt and use his while he sends out his head. Put it on and see if the engine bucks and jumps.

While you are looking around, you could play Buck Hunter or watch Uncle Buck. (OK, the last part was just trying to use "buck" in as many ways as possible. Sorry)

Honestly I'm not sure what your best choice is because I have another pump laying around that I could throw on, so I'm in a different situation than you.

 

[Rembrant]

Maybe try to find one from a running engine for a couple hundred bucks and see if works.

This is what I did with my Beetle with the noisy injection pump. Picked up a used pump for $150 bucks, stuck it on the car, and vroom...started right up and purrs like a kitten. I plan on having the original rebuilt, and then I'll remove the used one from the car and keep it on the shelf as a spare.

 

[aidan_mkiv]

This is what I did with my Beetle with the noisy injection pump. Picked up a used pump for $150 bucks, stuck it on the car, and vroom...started right up and purrs like a kitten. I plan on having the original rebuilt, and then I'll remove the used one from the car and keep it on the shelf as a spare.

Hmm, maybe I'll just have to do this.

 

[Raweaver_410]

I would check your crank postion sensor that will cause no start.

 

[UhOh]

I would check your crank postion sensor that will cause no start.

Would the crank position sensor affect fuel delivery pressure? I know there's feedback from the needle sensor on the #3 injector, but don't know of anything else that actually affect fuel delivery flow aside from IP components.

 

[Raweaver_410]

Would the crank position sensor affect fuel delivery pressure? I know there's feedback from the needle sensor on the #3 injector, but don't know of anything else that actually affect fuel delivery flow aside from IP components.

I misread, so my 2 cents was kind of irrelevant. after reading I agree that it's a pump issue. Without the right fuel pressure/delivery no start. Did he get a proper scan? that would really tell the truth.

 

[UhOh]

IDid he get a proper scan? that would really tell the truth.

It would likely help. Sometimes, however, no-start problems don't throw codes (could hope that before the no-start condition that there's a trace left).

Going back to my question about the fuel shutoff solenoid, can anyone speak as to whether one can cause a problem like this? Maybe it drops power or reverts back to a no-power state? Ah! Just found out an answer to this question (which is "yes"):

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=2385709&postcount=99

 

[aidan_mkiv]

If by proper scan, you mean vcds, then yes I have and the codes are in the original post....don't seem to be anything that would cause a no start though. I guess the question is, do I just buy a pump, and also, who has one for me for a good price?