Alh engine oil

[Nathan_og]

Has anyone tried using some of that lucas oil addtive? I used it in a f150 and it slowed oil consumption way down. My tdi uses maybe a liter or so in between 8k oil changes.

 

[Nathan_og]

It has a really nice lubricity feeling to it and im wondering if its good to use in between oil changes for extra protection with the alh motor. Just wanna make sure it's not bad for the turbo or anything.

 

[Nathan_og]

I have 300 thousand km on the car and it uses maybe half a liter to a liter. I don't have to top it off or maybe only once.

 

[turbocharged798]

What does the 505 mean? Really? The only things unique with the ALH engine is being diesel and it has a Turbo. The synthetic provides protection to the Turbo while diesel rated helps deal with the soot. All diesel rated oils deal with the soot ........... heck they were dealing with the soot 50 years ago and the big rigs were going 400 to 500k miles on the engines even back then. I remember changing oil on a refrigeration unit powered by a 4-cylinder diesel back in the early 1970s ............. that oil was extremely black! The guy said it had not been changed in two years, if I remember correctly.

There is absolutely nothing special about the ALH, its a 4 cylinder DI turbo diesel engine. I am thinking 505 at the time might have been to protect the cat from damage.

Did not the original Manual for the ALH specify conventional oil?

I think the synthetic is more for the TC than the engine???

Never said VW approved it. Just going on common sense. Dino 15W-40 gets put into engines everyday with turbos.

 

[Genesis]

Its actually LESS of a problem with a turbodiesel than a gas turbo vehicle because a diesel is basically an air pump (which cools things off quite rapidly) when the loud pedal is not depressed; it runs extremely lean and EGTs are very low. Even a half-minute or so of idling down (e.g. coming off a freeway ramp into a rest area) cools it off quite a bit.

This is not true for a gas engine which restricts air because it must to keep running, and thus it is a lot more likely to take a hot shutdown on the turbo, which is where the problem comes from. Unless the turbo is waterjacketed the oil is the only cooling it gets other than by convection to the air around it, and when you turn it off the heat on the exhaust side will soak into the center and cook the oil. Dino oil is not very resistant to that and if it cokes you start a destructive cycle that eventually destroys the turbo.

 

[AndyBees]

Turbocharged798, that's my point ............. the ALH is just a diesel with a hot running small Turbo Charger! I've not done any cross-referencing with respect to bearings (rod & main) to see if any VW Gasser engine bearings will fit the ALH. However, the ol' VW 1.5 and 1.6 rod & main bearings were the same as in the Gasser engines of the day. If VW had used better metal, those ol' 1.5s and 1.6s would have lasted much longer. The cylinders were terrible to wear egg-shaped ......... then, loads of blow-by, oil consumption, etc. But, if you kept the oil level up on the dip stick, they'd keep running!

Genesis, yes, as you stated, the synthetic oil protects from coking. VW lost a Class Action lawsuit over the 1.8T in the Passat, etc., due to wrong oil recommendation and small oil pan. Coking was a huge problem with the turbo on those engines. A friend of mine had one to go down due to sludge blocking the oil pickup tube. It's a long story and that's how I learned about the lawsuit. Unfortunately, in his case, the time had expired for the recall benefits.

As for the VNT15 on the ALH, I've disassembled and cleaned at least 50 of them. I never found a smidge of evidence of coking.

Interestingly, I've seen T6 Rotella in 15w-40 (synthetic). That stuff might be worth considering for the high mileage ALH.

 

[Genesis]

I wouldn't run the 15w40 in cold weather but in warmer climates it's likely perfectly fine. Most wear occurs at start-up and the faster you can get oil under pressure into the journals the better.

 

[KLXD]

Messed up my last post. Meant AHU, not ALH regarding the requirement.

 

[CleverUserName]

I wouldn't run the 15w40 in cold weather but in warmer climates it's likely perfectly fine. Most wear occurs at start-up and the faster you can get oil under pressure into the journals the better.

That's actually a common myth. Oil pumps are positive displacement. If your ambient temps are within the operating range of the winter rating and the oil hasn't started to crystallize than a 15w will flow the same as a 5w or even a 0w. The lower winter rating only has an advantage as you approach the lower operating range of the synthetic 15w ( < -20c) where crystallization of waxes in the base oils begins.

 

[Genesis]

That's actually a common myth. Oil pumps are positive displacement. If your ambient temps are within the operating range of the winter rating and the oil hasn't started to crystallize than a 15w will flow the same as a 5w or even a 0w. The lower winter rating only has an advantage as you approach the lower operating range of the synthetic 15w ( < -20c) where crystallization of waxes in the base oils begins.

Yes, the pump is positive-displacement. However, it has a relief valve at its output typically set at ~60psi and therefore develops no more than that. The oil must be pumped into the passages and fill the void spaces in the journals before full lubrication is established, and the velocity of that flow is materially lower for a thicker oil. Until it does the excess the pump is able to deliver is dumped through that pressure-relief valve straight back into the pan and the fill rate of those passages is slower the higher the viscosity.

This is obviously an extreme example but with the Detroits in my former boat (which required a straight 40wt; multi-grades do not meet specs) when exercised in the winter months in Florida, with outdoor temps right near freezing, the time-before-normal-pressure on the mechanical gauge in the engine room was roughly double that in the summer with both being "first crank" after a couple of days since last being run. Until the oil fills the airspaces in the system and expels that air, which is a function of its flow rate down those passages there is effective no pressure component to the lubricating film in the main and cam bearings at all.

The difference in time before the minor lifter tick goes away between a "first morning" 32F start and an 80F start on an ALH -- with 5w40 -- is clearly discernable. I'll bet with 15w its materially longer.

Is that difference on a cold start going to kill the engine? No, but I'll bet it shows up in the wear metal levels if you run UOA and eventually in the service life of internal engine parts. With dino oils the use of VIs to attain the multi-grade rating means that over time you run the risk of losing the higher-end ("hot") rating due to shear, which is why with those oils its best to use the narrowest spread that meets operating and temperature range requirements. That concern does not apply in the general sense with fully-synthetic base stocks.

There is also the hydrodynamic film strength factor, especially on an engine tuned to produce more output (and thus more load on the mains and rod bearings) than originally designed for but for fully-synthetics with the same top rating (5w40 .vs. 15w40) that shouldn't come into play. For dino oils it definitely does once again due to their extensive use of VIs to get that wider rating.

In this case, however, both oils are full synthetic base-stock.

There is no expected advantage to running a 15w40 full-synthetic where a 5w40 full-synthetic is specified and there may be, in cold weather at least, a disadvantage in terms of start-up wear. If you're going to do it I would pull UOAs on both under the same environmental conditions.

 

[AndyBees]

I seriously doubt that the oil galleries are draining out overnight or for that matter, a week. I've never torn down and engine that didn't have an oil film on all the lubricating points. So, I seriously believe there is way too much emphasis placed on "start-up" wear on an engine. Yes, if it has been sitting for weeks on end at a Used Car Lot without being started, there might be more wear at start-up than the daily driver.

The ALH engine in my Vanagon used to show about 72 PSI on the gauge at cold start-up, depending on temperature. That was when it had about 130k miles on it. Today, at roughly 215k miles, a cold start-up will show about 66 PSI. Of course, I've never verified the gauge. The previous owner of the car the engine come from (MrGutWrench) used T6 5w-40 in the engine and I've continued that tradition.

The 60 PSI by-pass doesn't mean that the galleries are not getting that same pressure. In fact, the "back-up" to produce 60 PSI is from filling all the passage-ways. So, I believe the pressure relief valve opens after galleries are full, no before.

Since I've never lost an engine due to the lack of lubrication, this is something I don't fret.

 

[CleverUserName]

An SAE 40 is not suitable for anything near freezing with exception of a synthetic SAE 40 and I know of only one manufacturer that makes one. Not a surprise you had issues with it. Also not really relevant to the discussion or anything regarding mineral oils.

At 32F both a 15w40 and a 5w40 will have the oil pump relief open. Even a 0w40 would as that is what it was designed to do, relieve excess pressure when the oil is thick. You will not find an SAE chart for different velocities of different winter ratings because they are essentially the same, as long as they are all liquid and pumpable a 5w, 0w and 15w will all flow equally within their operating range. There is also an influence on the oils' dynamics by the Viscosity Index and Density which is another reason why you cant say one "flows" better or has higher velocity than any other. The other advantage of a 15w40 is oil film left on the engine after shutdown is thicker than a 5w40 due to it's heavier base oil.

I have used a custom synthetic 10w40 blend of 50/50 10w30 and 15w40 that has lower start up oil pressure and higher hot oil pressure than M1 Delvac ESP 5w40. My 10w40 blend has a higher density and Viscosity Index although it has a lower 40c and 100c viscosity. The only advantage Delvac would have is a cold start below the temperature range for my 10w40 as I know it wouldn't be pumpable. I have multiple oil analysis with this 10w40 in different diesel vehicles used in temps in as low at 20F and it performs very well. I have done used and virgin oil analysis since 2017 including viscosity tests at 40c and 100c to verify the VI. Crazy but true but it makes sense if you understand how all this works.

The HTHS viscosity determines the film strength on bearings not the KV100c viscosity. Redline 5w30 has a higher HTHS than Mobil 1 0w40 or Motul, Pentosin, or Castrol 5w40. So, like I said it's all about the density and viscosity index and not about the KV100c rating.

A euro 505 diesel oil 5w40 like Castrol, Motul, Pentosin will actually be very light HTHS oils with an HTHS around 3.5-3.7. A 15w40 can have a HTHS as high as 5.2 so even though they are both a x40 the 15w40 has a higher density and therefore up to 40%+ higher HTHS even though they share the same w40 rating. The higher film strength means that the oil film after shutdown will also be 40%+ higher than the 505 which helps with cold start protection.

The other advantage to synthetic 15w40 is low evaporative tendency also called volatility.

As I have explained in detail, there are advantages to running the highest VI, Density and Winter rating oil you can find that is compatible with your climate.

Yes, the pump is positive-displacement. However, it has a relief valve at its output typically set at ~60psi and therefore develops no more than that. The oil must be pumped into the passages and fill the void spaces in the jw40ournals before full lubrication is established, and the velocity of that flow is materially lower for a thicker oil. Until it does the excess the pump is able to deliver is dumped through that pressure-relief valve straight back into the pan and the fill rate of those passages is slower the higher the viscosity.

This is obviously an extreme example but with the Detroits in my former boat (which required a straight 40wt; multi-grades do not meet specs) when exercised in the winter months in Florida, with outdoor temps right near freezing, the time-before-normal-pressure on the mechanical gauge in the engine room was roughly double that in the summer with both being "first crank" after a couple of days since last being run. Until the oil fills the airspaces in the system and expels that air, which is a function of its flow rate down those passages there is effective no pressure component to the lubricating film in the main and cam bearings at all.

The difference in time before the minor lifter tick goes away between a "first morning" 32F start and an 80F start on an ALH -- with 5w40 -- is clearly discernable. I'll bet with 15w its materially longer.

Is that difference on a cold start going to kill the engine? No, but I'll bet it shows up in the wear metal levels if you run UOA and eventually in the service life of internal engine parts. With dino oils the use of VIs to attain the multi-grade rating means that over time you run the risk of losing the higher-end ("hot") rating due to shear, which is why with those oils its best to use the narrowest spread that meets operating and temperature range requirements. That concern does not apply in the general sense with fully-synthetic base stocks.

There is also the hydrodynamic film strength factor, especially on an engine tuned to produce more output (and thus more load on the mains and rod bearings) than originally designed for but for fully-synthetics with the same top rating (5w40 .vs. 15w40) that shouldn't come into play. For dino oils it definitely does once again due to their extensive use of VIs to get that wider rating.

In this case, however, both oils are full synthetic base-stock.

There is no expected advantage to running a 15w40 full-synthetic where a 5w40 full-synthetic is specified and there may be, in cold weather at least, a disadvantage in terms of start-up wear. If you're going to do it I would pull UOAs on both under the same environmental conditions.

 

[ghohouston]

I've personally put around 200k on my current alh that I bought with just over 200k on it. Used regular15w40 from day one. The original cam looked great with around 350k on it. My first Alh, I started it on T-6 5w40, and switched to regular 15w40, with no issues.

 

[TornadoRed]

Hi everyone, im currently running motomaster 5w-40 in my alh with 300 thousand kilometers. Im going to be doing a oil change soon and was wondering if I should switch to shell Rotella synthetic t6 or mobil Delvac 1. I heard those oils offer better protection but It does not meet the 505 spec.

The owners manual for my 2003 ALH TDI said either 1) VAG 505.00 or 2) API CH-4.

CH-4 has been superseded by CI-4, CI-4+, CJ-4, and now CK-4. But all of them are or were approved for the ALH engine.

 

[TornadoRed]

Interestingly, I've seen T6 Rotella in 15w-40 (synthetic). That stuff might be worth considering for the high mileage ALH.

I've got a jug of synthetic 15w40 that I'm using for topping-up. But won't be using that viscosity for any oil changes.

 

[U4ick]

Ya know......I haven't seen a jug of T6 on the shelf anywhere around me for a couple of months.

And, when I went to buy a quart of dino 10w30 for my lawnmower, all I could find was synthetic or a synthetic blend.

What's up with that? Is it just where I'm at?

 

[03TDICommuter]

Ya know......I haven't seen a jug of T6 on the shelf anywhere around me for a couple of months.

Nope, it's scarce out here too. I read a post that said it was due to not being able to get the additives.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

So much miss information in this thread. From saying a Diesel rated 15w-40 Conventional has no place within an oil-cooled turbo to mixing oils and saying it’s the “Bees Knees.”

post some of this garbage on Bobby’s oil forum and you’ll get lit up.

Best bang for the buck right now is 15w-40 Delvac Extreme. Very nice adpack, 4.1 Shear, etc. then the rebate. Forget Delvac 5w-40 as it isn’t any better and depending on usage, will degrade quicker than the Extreme.

Keep it to the facts, not Grandpa’s old tales.

 

[CleverUserName]

So much miss information in this thread. From saying a Diesel rated 15w-40 Conventional has no place within an oil-cooled turbo to mixing oils and saying it’s the “Bees Knees.”

post some of this garbage on Bobby’s oil forum and you’ll get lit up.

Best bang for the buck right now is 15w-40 Delvac Extreme. Very nice adpack, 4.1 Shear, etc. then the rebate. Forget Delvac 5w-40 as it isn’t any better and depending on usage, will degrade quicker than the Extreme.

Keep it to the facts, not Grandpa’s old tales.

My 10w40 blend is posted on “Bobby’s oil forum” “smart guy”. I post all of my used and virgin oil analysis on there. You could learn a lot from bobistheoilguy.com instead of believing your silly notions and myths.

RLI 10w40 Homebrew Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash VOA

The 10w30 RLI I got was kinda low on the cSt @ 100 so I decided to mix it with the 15w40 to make it a 10w40. I also wanted to see how two multigrade oils of the same formulation would blend together. Kinda like an experiment. 50/50 Homebrew Blend of RLI Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash 10w30 and 15w40...

bobistheoilguy.com

Delvac ESP 5w40 has superior base oils including group IV and V. Delvac extreme does not. If you knew how to read an SDS you could tell the difference between the two products.


I say “smart guy” sarcastically because you’re full of do-do and shouldn’t be criticizing others because of your own ignorance.

 

[AndyBees]

Sorry for you guys that are looking for oil. Over the last year I scoffed up enough to last way more than 100k miles and laid back a good number of filters, including air and fuel.

Remember to protect your VNT Turbos ....

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

My 10w40 blend is posted on “Bobby’s oil forum” “smart guy”. I post all of my used and virgin oil analysis on there. You could learn a lot from bobistheoilguy.com instead of believing your silly notions and myths.

RLI 10w40 Homebrew Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash VOA

The 10w30 RLI I got was kinda low on the cSt @ 100 so I decided to mix it with the 15w40 to make it a 10w40. I also wanted to see how two multigrade oils of the same formulation would blend together. Kinda like an experiment. 50/50 Homebrew Blend of RLI Bio-SynXtra HD Low Ash 10w30 and 15w40...

bobistheoilguy.com

Delvac ESP 5w40 has superior base oils including group IV and V. Delvac extreme does not. If you knew how to read an SDS you could tell the difference between the two products.


I say “smart guy” sarcastically because you’re full of do-do and shouldn’t be criticizing others because of your own ignorance.

Oh boy. I know how to read an SDS quite well and saw your back and forth in Bobby’s forum. Group 4 and 5 show only a part of the equation and do not show add stocks. You even fell into the trap with that “Wally” poster stating Extreme is not even synthetic.

Homebrews are just that…home brews. Posting for others to do the same is asinine at best.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

Sorry for you guys that are looking for oil. Over the last year I scoffed up enough to last way more than 100k miles and laid back a good number of filters, including air and fuel.

Remember to protect your VNT Turbos ....

Protect it from Conventional oil? You’re a silly man.

Grandpa’s tall tales hard at work.

Coking can and does happen even with Synthetic. I’ve known enough 30+ psi 934/935’s after disassembling to verify. It comes down to user error and to a certain extent wrong oil type (not talking about conventional vs synthetic).

 

[CleverUserName]

Oh boy. I know how to read an SDS quite well and saw your back and forth in Bobby’s forum. Group 4 and 5 show only a part of the equation and do not show add stocks. You even fell into the trap with that “Wally” poster stating Extreme is not even synthetic.

Homebrews are just that…home brews. Posting for others to do the same is asinine at best.
[/QUOTE

Oh boy. I know how to read an SDS quite well and saw your back and forth in Bobby’s forum. Group 4 and 5 show only a part of the equation and do not show add stocks. You even fell into the trap with that “Wally” poster stating Extreme is not even synthetic.

Homebrews are just that…home brews. Posting for others to do the same is asinine at best.

Like I said, full of do-do. You also have poor reading comprehension.

I only shared my own experience, to dispel myths about 10w and 15w oils. I never advocated or recommended any one follow my lead, however they could safely do it as I have a literal mountain of analysis of that 10w40 blend posted on that “Bobby’s oil forum” in different Diesel engines up to 12k miles.

It’s “add pack” not “add stock” smart guy. Group IV and V are always more desirable as they have better cold properties, lower volatility and superior resistance to oxidation. An lubricant that has expensive base oils doesn’t require a higher % of additives to get the same effect as an oil that uses cheaper bases like D1 Extreme.

Go ahead and continue to talk out your a$$ and tell us again how cheap Delvac Extreme is better than D1 ESP because you can’t read an SDS.

 

[AndyBees]

Newbies come in two groups! ,,,,,,,, maybe three!

 

[Diesel Fumes]

I dunno why you guys need to complicate and argue in an oil thread.

I just use what vw tells me to use.

 

[TornadoRed]

I dunno why you guys need to complicate and argue in an oil thread.

You've got a really old Owners Manual since it authorizes API CF-4 rated oil. Mine said CH-4. Now diesel-rated oil is CK-4.

But even then they recommended the 5w40 viscosity, and all 5w40 oil is diesel-rated and synthetic.

 

[Sword_of_the_Spirit]

Like I said, full of do-do. You also have poor reading comprehension.

I only shared my own experience, to dispel myths about 10w and 15w oils. I never advocated or recommended any one follow my lead, however they could safely do it as I have a literal mountain of analysis of that 10w40 blend posted on that “Bobby’s oil forum” in different Diesel engines up to 12k miles.

It’s “add pack” not “add stock” smart guy. Group IV and V are always more desirable as they have better cold properties, lower volatility and superior resistance to oxidation. An lubricant that has expensive base oils doesn’t require a higher % of additives to get the same effect as an oil that uses cheaper bases like D1 Extreme.

Go ahead and continue to talk out your a$$ and tell us again how cheap Delvac Extreme is better than D1 ESP because you can’t read an SDS.

Cheap…lol. That’s a good one.

I’m half your guy’s age and still know better than to say a PAO is better in every situation. Additives go hand in hand with the bases. If you don’t know that, so be it.
Stock=Pack in my eyes. Equate it how you will on definition. Additives and Bases are quite clear mate.

There are no “myths” about 10-20w oils. Facts are facts. Lower VII and narrow ranges are always more stable. Though extreme cold lends to a lower base or PAO for pumping ability.

Coking…. Ignorance belies belief.

Gotta love oil threads.

 

[Diesel Fumes]

You've got a really old Owners Manual since it authorizes API CF-4 rated oil. Mine said CH-4. Now diesel-rated oil is CK-4.

But even then they recommended the 5w40 viscosity, and all 5w40 oil is diesel-rated and synthetic.

I don't know what my manual says. This was just a picture I found