ALH camshaft wear

Gvr

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'01 Alh Golf Mk4 Wagon
I was in the middle of cleaning and resealing the rocker cover and upon visual inspection I noticed wear on one of the cam lobes.
I rebuilt the engine about a year ago, cam/lifters are INA and have around 50.000km on them.
Should this be a cause of concern?

The other lobes look fine..
 

Mpaw

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Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion, T5 2.5 5cyl
It would concern me at only 50k on it.... Was it a good quality one? Did it have a mileage guarantee?
 

Gvr

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Romania
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Don't think it had...I thought INA makes quality parts. Also, I bought it from where I usually get auto parts from and I never really had problems with them, so nothing shady there...
The head was assembled at the machine shop where it had work done to it. Also had a few heads done there already, so I trust their work. Maybe I got unlucky with the cam?
 

Gvr

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Romania
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'01 Alh Golf Mk4 Wagon
Cannot see any visible wear on the lifter..
 

Gvr

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So it is new cam time?
Should probably do lifters aswell, they wear together, right..?
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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My 2 cents - @Franko6 . I have his Stage 2 cam and nitrided lifters in all my mk4's. You can't go wrong with his cams.
 

Mpaw

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Probably the cam was produced on a Monday morning or Friday afternoon ... unlucky
when 99% are very good, that still leaves someone with a bad one
 

turbocharged798

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INA does not make cams, usually cams are FEBI. INA does make the lifters and they should be clearly marked on the underside. Cam should be marked as FEBI between the lobes somewhere.

There are a lot of bad parts out there and unfortunately our vendors are not immune to it. I ended up with some C.R.A.P lifters that got wiped out in less than 50K.
 

jmodge

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Did you put on an assembly/break in lube when you installed it?
 

Gvr

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Romania
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'01 Alh Golf Mk4 Wagon
Nope, but I don't think that's the issue tbh.
My common sense tells me that not using assembly lube would have shown wear in all of the lobes and maybe the lifters. But only one lobe seems damaged, so I am more biased into thinking I just got a cam from a bad badge or something..
 

454k30

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Long Beach, CA
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2002 Jetta
Unfortunately, that cam did not wear correctly. The lifter is likely showing some unusual wear as well. If it's not, then this was a poorly made cam shaft. INA doesn't make bad parts, but they batch produce like everyone else, so they can have defects as well. The cam also could've had been damaged in a way that you could never have seen.

New cam and new lifters are in your immediate future.
 

Gvr

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Romania
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I'll have to do a timing belt/waterpump job in 10.000km, will change them then.
Hopefully nothing bad will happen until that time..
 

Franko6

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Location
Sw Missouri
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Jetta, 99, Silver`
It is not exactly true that INA does not make camshaft kits. They may not make the camshaft itself, but they do make several cam kits and at very least, contract for camshafts to be produced and that is where the issue might arise.

There was hardening done on your cam, but obviously, it was not done correctly, especially if the remaining lobes are fine. In hardness testing I have done, the variations from the CRAP (Chinese Replacement Auto Parts..) can be anywhere from Rc44 to Rc61. Rc 44 is when their equipment harden the lobes or journals...partially failed. Yes, we have seen that. Your company sold you some of the bad stuff. It could be as simple as one of the induction coils went out or part of the winding went bad that cam to not be properly hardened. I'd be talking to my vendor about it.
To claim Made in USA, for example, the item has to be 51% USA produced. I don't think many vendors require that the box of parts that were produced in several countries, are going to post who actually made that cam, lifters or cam seal.

BTW: Cams and cam followers break-in together and wear out together. MAYBE you could get another cam to work against all the other cam followers, but I would definitely replace the #6 lifter; the one under the worn cam lobe. If it were in my shop, I'd replace the whole kit.

We have an inside joke that the Spanish company, AMC, as the box says they are 'Made in Spain', but when examining the product, we ABSOLUTELY KNOW this particular cam was produced in Turkey. But the box was 'Made in Spain'... I think. AMC, like anyone subject to the 'lowest price persuasion', will end up buying Chinese CRAP. This holds true for AMC with valve keepers, springs, valves, seats... even the alloy of the aluminum is wrong, but they will always have a cylinder head ready to go! I work strictly to OEM cylinder heads for a lot of very good reasons

About the China manufacturing, I just recently found out that one of the well-known parts moguls has chosen to have their Pumpe Duese cams produced in China. Supposedly, the company is setting up the plant and is doing the Quality Control. Only time will tell, but I am in no mind to fund the Chinese and their ultimate goals and there is always the matter of 'quality fade'. They start by giving you a good part. The next part, not so much.

It's terrible in my mind that large companies have become 'bottom feeders', choosing to do business with a country the treats their population poorly, allows prisoner, slave and child labor to produce parts and of course, you can make a part cheaper if YOU DON'T PAY LABOR.. Then, you have to worry about who even cares if the part comes out correctly. My honest opinion, it will ALWAYS be an inferior part when inferior labor is producing it.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
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outside St Louis, MO
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There are just too many to list....
The lowest common denominator is China, unfortunately. Getting harder and harder to avoid... especially when the OEMs themselves are getting stuff from there.

GM will sell you a WHOLE CAR from China now (the Buick Envision).
 

Gvr

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Damn, an unfortunate situation...so there are chances I'll end up with another bad cam or lifter. Not such a big dealbreaker, I find it very easy to swap cams and lifters, but it is the price ( in money ) that one must spend two or maybe three times to end up with a quality piece..Because, profit for the big guys, I guess.
 

csstevej

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Buy one from Franko6 or from one of our on line vendors here…..they won’t steer you wrong.
 

Gvr

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Being located in Romania, I am afraid that is not a viable option for me..
 

csstevej

Top Post Dawg
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Location
north nj
TDI
2001 golf tdi 4 door auto now a manual, mine, 2000 golf 2 door M/T son's,daughters 98 NB non-TDI 2.0, 2003 TDI NB for next daughter, head repaired and on road,gluten for punishment got another tdi 2001NB,another yellow tdi NB
What about rynap? He’s on your side of the pond I believe.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
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Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
I really don't know about Kolbenschmidt and their product at the moment. Look at the box. In the US, the manufacturer is required to state Country of Origin on the box. But then, I joke about AMC. I know where the cam was built, but the box says, 'Made in Spain'. I'm pretty sure the BOX was made in Spain...

About 8-9 years ago, KS became a 'bottom feeder'. One of my vendors sent a batch of KS PD cams. But the company we had them sent to, asked me 'why the change in manufacturer for your cams?' The vendor sold me an 'alternative Chinese cam', which ended up being TOTAL JUNK! Lobes were Rc44; the journals were Rc22. The correct hardness should be Rc 59-61 and journals Rc 55. I fired that vendor. I work with companies selling reliable product. If I hadn't caught these bad cams, I would have had a rash of cams where every lobe would have been worn and it would have happened in a matter weeks, if not days.

There are two problems selling to most European countries; cost of shipping and taxes. I have little control over taxes. But shipping is about volume. I can't economically send a single cam to Europe because of the shipping cost. If I had a forwarding agent placed in Europe, I'd sell cams. My product has been very successful in the US. I'm sure it would be the same in Europe.

What I have seen of the European aftermarket modified cams, it seems 260 degree separation is popular, which means that cam is intended for high rpm, racetrack performance. I designed around longevity and economy, road worthiness and a reasonable amount of power potential, that is the interest for most of my customers, rather than engine-blowing performance.
 

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
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Being located in Romania, I am afraid that is not a viable option for me..
I'm sure he can ship to Romania, but I doubt it would be cheap. But, if you went with Frank, at least you'd be doing this job once and probably not have to do it again. His cam will probably outlast the car itself!
 

Gvr

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'01 Alh Golf Mk4 Wagon
Maybe there is something I could do...see, there are a few students with Work&Travel in the US right now, I do not really know them personally..but we are from the same hometown. I could ask nicely if they'd want to help me "smuggle" one Frank cam here...I will ask and see what can be arranged..
 

Mpaw

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We have an inside joke that the Spanish company, AMC, as the box says they are 'Made in Spain', but when examining the product, we ABSOLUTELY KNOW this particular cam was produced in Turkey. But the box was 'Made in Spain'... I think. AMC, like anyone subject to the 'lowest price persuasion', will end up buying Chinese CRAP. This holds true for AMC with valve keepers, springs, valves, seats... even the alloy of the aluminum is wrong, but they will always have a cylinder head ready to go! I work strictly to OEM cylinder heads for a lot of very good reasons
That's very interesting - AMC sell a lot of stuff here...
It would be a very big scandal here if KS were repackaging parts they didn't make ... they are at the top of the pyramid of alleged high quality German production. But here VW got away with fiddling the emissions, and the Audi boss got only 10 months probation and a fine... Here, the bigger you are means that more is done to make sure you don't fall....
 
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Franko6

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Location
Sw Missouri
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Jetta, 99, Silver`
This business about is not just about AMC. As far as a scandal goes, breaking rules seems to happen often enough for a lot of companies. I try to keep ethics and morals intact. I'll make this as concise as I can...

Several years ago, I laid out a pile of various PD cams that I had accumulated, so the sales person with my cam company could examine them. After all, it was difficult to really tell the difference, just looking. I had Estes, Estas, Kolbenschmidt, 'The Red Dot' Billet cam, Febi Bilstein, AMC, and a few more that I can't recall right now...some Chinese CRAP cams...

I said, "John, what is the difference between all of these cams?"

John quipped, "Well, this one says Kolbenschmidt and this one says Febi..."

"That's funny John..."

John continued, "Most of these have been marked by the same green YAG laser. If you look closely,", he separated 4 cams... "not only were these cams made at the same factory, they were made by the same MACHINE."

I was astonished what he said, but looking very closely, John showed me there were two tell-tale signs. One was the chatter of the grinding wheel as the cam turned, it was making a slight scallop line across the face of the lobes. The stone was slightly out-of-balance, so it was making a chatter cut. But the one that really made it apparent was the slight radial movement as the grinding wheel went to the top of the lobe; there were the same lines wandering sideways, like a fingerprint. To look closely, that slight movement was like the signature of the machine. And SOME OF THOSE CAMS, like the Febi, Kolbenschmidt, the 'Red Dot', and most interestingly, the AMC, at that time, were made in Turkey, but the AMC' packaging most distinctly said that cam was 'Made in Spain'. I don't think so... and who knows the producer of AMC's cams now (or anyone else for that matter..).

So, of the pile of cams on my counter, MOST OF THEM were made by one of possibly 3 Turkish companies, no matter what the box says.

The other thing that just makes me shake my head is for anyone to brag, "It's BILLET", which drives me a bit crazy. The initial cams made for the VW PD cam were cast steel, compared to the cast iron for the older ALH and AHU, for example. There were a few companies that made Chill Cast Iron cams for the PD, but honestly, I don't think they ever had any longevity. When the billet cams started to arrive, it was NOT because the billet is better than cast steel is per se, it's because making a cam from billet is CHEAPER.

So, to the other thing I asked John."What is better? Cast Steel or Billet?" To which John snorted, "Billet, Schmillet... It doesn't make any difference."
"You know that 8 lobe cam of yours ?" (meaning the ALH/ AHU cam we get profiled by them...) The company has a custom-built Landis cam grinding machine you walk into, it's so big.

"If we were to make those 8 lobe cams from billet, from the time the chunk of steel comes out, to the time it drops off, ready to harden, would be 2 minutes."

WHAT THE HECK!?! So, here is the real reason for billet cams, and IT IS NOT ABOUT QUALITY. IT'S BEAN-COUNTERS, BUILDING YOUR CAR! A billet cam is much quicker to build and meets much closer to the 'Just In Time' approach companies like BMW have been trying to use, reducing their inventory of 'on hand' parts., as that becomes a tax burden. They want the part to show up 'just in time' to put it into the car.

The only difference in hardening is not that one is harder or better, but when cast, the grain structure becomes 'directional', meaning as the molten metal goes into the mold, the molten metal will 'freeze' against the perimeter of the mold, making a smaller crystalline structure, as smaller grain on the external parts of the cam lend to reduced potential of cracking. Some might argue this is better.

But John said when either the billet or cast cam is properly hardened, there is no difference in life-expectancy. I have to agree, as we have been using billet cam stock for about 8-9 years.

Now let's get down to that word, BILLET: In this case, the definition is 'a bar of metal'. It doesn't even have to mean STEEL. It is not magic. It is just steel.

And the other word which is overused; FORGED. To whit, you don't make a FORGED BILLET cam. That is someone spewing who doesn't know what he's talking about. Forging is to heat up the billet hot enough to be malleable and then hammer or squeeze the metal into shape. These billet are machined to shape. Casting is done in a mold with the material liquid.

So, every single cam that was on my table, including a POS Chinese cam, was made by using billet. And the ONLY reason it's billet is when you compare what it takes to make a cast steel cam, better or not, is very time-consuming, more dangerous and although the casting might make a superior product, the machined billet cams are wildly quicker to make. The additional benefit; I would guess that same billet material would be able to produce 95% of the all cams produced today.

Production time comparison: The billet piece drops off of the machine ready to harden in about the same amount of time it takes to pour a casting.
 
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