ALH 10mm Pump - Biggest Nozzles (GTD1752VRK)

Alcaid

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Hi,

I've been away from VE tuning for a long time, nozzle brands have come and gone...

What is the latest thinking around what is the biggest nozzles a 10mm ALH pump can handle with a proper tune?

It used to be DSS Ultimate II (0.275?), according to some, capable of about 250bhp on a 10mm ALH pump (assuming this is with some smoke)

I am planning a reliable ALH build in a mk1 Jetta for low budget trackday fun.

Was hoping to keep the 10mm pump while still fueling enough for 200-220bhp - transient responsive, smoke free and durability is the goal for the build, 200hp mk1 is really a lot of fun and fast enough. (CTN 02A box with shortened 5th gear, Quaife diff and a good clutch setup in place with semi slick tires to convert power into traction).

Could the Firad .290 nozzles work OK without excessive smoke with relatively short injection duration for my power goal? Anyone seen 200+bhp with .260 nozzles and 10mm ALH pump without smoking like a freight train?
 

adamss24

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There are new kids on the Block nowadays: wuzetem and gibonta, both made the n the Far East...people had good results with them !
 

MAXRPM

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I'm running GTD1756VRK with .290 and I get a little haze at initial acceleration, don't ask me anything about the new nozzles cause I'm in LALA land, I only know about the old school bosios, don't even know how these .290 nozzles flow compares to like R520s PP502 and so on, I know my car pulls a lot harder now than when I had my golf with R520s and 1722, engine back then I dynoed 220hp,. All things being equal my car got the same engine from my golf when it was 220hp, this turbo is a beauty spools like 1900 rpms and goes hard, back then I had RC6 now I got RC5.5
 

Alcaid

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I'm running GTD1756VRK with .290 and I get a little haze at initial acceleration, don't ask me anything about the new nozzles cause I'm in LALA land, I only know about the old school bosios, don't even know how these .290 nozzles flow compares to like R520s PP502 and so on, I know my car pulls a lot harder now than when I had my golf with R520s and 1722, engine back then I dynoed 220hp,. All things being equal my car got the same engine from my golf when it was 220hp, this turbo is a beauty spools like 1900 rpms and goes hard, back then I had RC6 now I got RC5.5
Still on a 10mm pump?
 

adamss24

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My 2 cents, I would use larger turbo on a track car as it will be on boost constantly being in the rev range ! I haven't driven one of the gtb1752vrk but I have driven 2060/2260vklr and they were savage on 2.0 tdi 16v with bosio race nozzles... As I mentioned in other threads, I have a pd engined golf mk2 with a gtb2260vk on it takes a lot of abuse and I am lifting the head on hard pulls even with 1.8 bar tune...I wonder what egt will the vrk will do on a wot pull !
 

Alcaid

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My 2 cents, I would use larger turbo on a track car as it will be on boost constantly being in the rev range ! I haven't driven one of the gtb1752vrk but I have driven 2060/2260vklr and they were savage on 2.0 tdi 16v with bosio race nozzles... As I mentioned in other threads, I have a pd engined golf mk2 with a gtb2260vk on it takes a lot of abuse and I am lifting the head on hard pulls even with 1.8 bar tune...I wonder what egt will the vrk will do on a wot pull !
Well, in my experience I don't even like the extra lag going to a 56mm exducer compressor on a 1.9TDi. I want transient response as close to a normally aspirated petrol engine as possible and I don't need a lot of hp for a fun 1700lbs car. EGT is easily controllable in the mapping, no need to max out the turbo (even though it is very capable of sustaining very high EGTs).
 

adamss24

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Well, it's your car and it's what you prefer really ! I prefer top end power from a larger turbo to low/midrange punch from a smaller,efficient turbo in a track focussed vehicle, especially as you tend to keep revs high which means better cooling, more controllable power and a lot less EGT as well...large turbo the lag is 1-2 sec really then power comes in hard, really hard !
 

MAXRPM

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11mm pump, it is a dream for a daly driver, this is the same engine I used to race, so it's got all kinds of mods and upgrades, I can tell you coming from 1722 before, it is night and day, initial spool is like having vnt15, but a lot more guts on the mid top range, it is definitely fun car to drive, I commute to work and drive it daly to work, I get 42mpg, heavy foot,
 

Alcaid

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Well, it's your car and it's what you prefer really ! I prefer top end power from a larger turbo to low/midrange punch from a smaller,efficient turbo in a track focussed vehicle, especially as you tend to keep revs high which means better cooling, more controllable power and a lot less EGT as well...large turbo the lag is 1-2 sec really then power comes in hard, really hard !
I get that top end power feel in my '90 Porsche 944 Turbo with a K26/8 turbo :p
 

MAXRPM

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That's my daly delicatessen, my Golf is what I prefer with the real bolts on,
 

ryanp

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1752 is way too small for a track car, I dont like it on my Mini, 2260 coming.
 

ryanp

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4000rpm its all out, you don't need 1500rpm spool for track, you need it for city driving.
 

MAXRPM

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But you are missing the point, the quicker the spool the less smoke out of the tail pipe, you put a lethargic turbo and you'd be like a freight train, and I do not race with it, I commute and it is a great commuter, for driving in the city it is a great choice, if I want to race then I unvail my golf with RC7 and 2565vklr, and it's ready for racing
 

ryanp

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Not with careful tuning, track cars with small turbos are crap,
 

adamss24

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But you are missing the point, the quicker the spool the less smoke out of the tail pipe, you put a lethargic turbo and you'd be like a freight train, and I do not race with it, I commute and it is a great commuter, for driving in the city it is a great choice, if I want to race then I unvail my golf with RC7 and 2565vklr, and it's ready for racing
As I was saying, a gtb2260vk is great on a track car, it’s always in the efficiency range at the 4000 rpms and the airmass it makes will clean any smoke at that !
2260vk is a great turbo out of the box !
 

MAXRPM

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I still have a 2260vk, I never liked it, smokes at initial spooling is not the best, 2565vklr spools a lot better and more efficient, I used to race the 2260vk, too lethargic down low, im getting back already modified and I'll test it with ball bearings should be better, never like the spooling of the 2260vk, you've got keep it raved up
 

ryanp

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adamss24

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As Ryan said, either turbo is incorrectly set up or tune is bad ! I have a gtb2260vk on a mk2 golf, works very, very well !
 

MAXRPM

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Never said that it was bad, up until you try a ball bearing 2260 then you'd change your opnion, you can't tune the initial spooling on a turbo period
 
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Andyinchville1

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Well, it's your car and it's what you prefer really ! I prefer top end power from a larger turbo to low/midrange punch from a smaller,efficient turbo in a track focussed vehicle, especially as you tend to keep revs high which means better cooling, more controllable power and a lot less EGT as well...large turbo the lag is 1-2 sec really then power comes in hard, really hard !
Hi

Would a turbo blanket and exhaust wrap help eliminate the lag?

Andrew
 

adamss24

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Never said that it was bad, up until you try a ball bearing 2260 then you'd change your opnion, you can't tune the initial spooling on a turbo period
A turbo converted to vacuum will be as good as the bloke who converts it ! Personally I have seen hundreds of badly setup turbos on which countless flashes couldn’t fix the issues. I am not contesting that ball bearing chra will spool better than journal bearing however the differences are marginal ! I doubt joe public can feel the difference of a 2260vk vs a 2260vklr all being equal ! I also seen many blown ball bearing turbos due to bolts coming loose on the exhaust manifold housing and Popped hoses ! The argument still stands, a larger turbo is better on track than a smaller turbo ! And believe me, difference is night and day between a well setup turbo and badly setup turbo !
 

MAXRPM

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Having both turbos and I have put them to a test, I can attest that you definitely feel the difference on the spooling,
 

Alcaid

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I ended up with the creative middle way:

Just purchased 2 ea GTB2056VL, one for this ALH and another one for my Audi A3 BKD quattro daily beater :p

I have had the same turbo as a daily for 5 years before on an ASZ so I know my way around that turbo, they are also dirt cheap ;)
 

adamss24

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Good compromise, it's got good spool although might surge a little low down due to larger compresor inducer... I used gtb2056vl before and I proffered to smaller turbos gtb1756vk or gtb1749vb. If you can use the cooling provision on the chra, it's very beneficial to longevity of the turbo + the heating works well in winter !
 

Alcaid

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Good compromise, it's got good spool although might surge a little low down due to larger compresor inducer... I used gtb2056vl before and I proffered to smaller turbos gtb1756vk or gtb1749vb. If you can use the cooling provision on the chra, it's very beneficial to longevity of the turbo + the heating works well in winter !
It’s the other way around:

GTB2056VL has a 56mm 50 trim compressor
GTB1756VK has a 56mm 55 trim compressor

So the VLis less prone to surge.
 

adamss24

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I wasn't comparing the 2056vl to the 1756vk ! It's just that I found the vl surges on 1.9 tdi due to larger inducer ! The vk I used it on 2.0 tdi...it was fine but I prefer larger turbos due to smoother, linear power delivery.
 
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