Algae and Rust in Fuel filter 2011 Golf TDI

[Smokin_Joe]

Rust in Fuel filter 2011 Golf TDI

Hi everyone
I will keep it short because I am doing research and I am looking for some help.
Anyone know of issues involving HPFP failures and warranty coverage in Canada?
I noticed a noise in our 2011 Golf TDI and it sounded like a cooling fan.
A hum, lifted the hood and it was a vibration coming from the HPFP.
Sent the wife to the dealer and they ordered a new one.
Mar 22 14 she went in to have it replaced and a service done. The replacement made the same noise. They found this in the fuel filter and accused us of contaminating the fuel. I took offense to that and checked all my filters on my fleet and pump. Nada thing wrong.
Turns out Volkswagen has a huge problem with not having a water separator on their fuel system and the sending unit in the tank rusts causing the rust to form in the filter as well as possibly algae to form. That in turn causes the fuel filter to plug and starve the HPFP and cause premature failure.
I was informed that the fuel system would need to be flushed and replace lots of parts. Big dollars. Have to get approval for warranty but at this point he was pointing the finger at me and my brand new slip tank, filter and pump assembly.
I don't think so.
I have a hunch I may be in for a fight. Any help would be appreciated.
I also was wondering if there was a direct replacement for the fuel filter canister to gain a water separator.

 

[Tuco]

Salt water in your fuel tank?

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Salt water in your fuel tank?

Not going to taste it to find out but it will be analyzed.
This car is only serviced at the dealer and Nov 2012 was the last time it was pulled out.
A second opinion said they should of noticed small metal pieces at the last change and delt with it then. Said Volkswagen is aware of the problem and doing it on a case by case basis and the dealers aren't up on what to watch for.
Not until one crosses their path then they accuse the customer of contaminating the fuel.
Nice
It is a big problem already and they are blaming it on contaminated fuel not inferior parts.
https://www.google.ca/search?client...0...1ac.1.34.firefox-hp..5.9.1299.SqoyuSXU2U0
Don't sell a car in a country that it can't survive in.
The wife is overrun with guilt and I won't take it. It isn't our fault.
I have lots of vehicles that run on diesel and they don't have any problems of internal self destruction.
The dealer wants me to bring it back in for a better look at things. He now realizes that the pump in the tank is probably the source of the rust.
My concern is if this gets fixed I want it to stay fixed and I am trying to find better filtration and water separation.
Something Volkswagen already approves of and it won't void the warranty.

 

[yatzee]

bad fuel for sure. The family's 2010 wagon fuel filter doesn't look a thing like that. The metal won't rust itself - ours was perfectly clean last time i was in there a few months.

If you ran bad fuel, whether you realized it or not, means that this would be an insurance claim, as opposed to a warranty claim.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

bad fuel for sure. The family's 2010 wagon fuel filter doesn't look a thing like that. The metal won't rust itself - ours was perfectly clean last time i was in there a few months.

If you ran bad fuel, whether you realized it or not, means that this would be an insurance claim, as opposed to a warranty claim.

Insurance won't cover, what you call, bad fuel.
Needs to be something definite like sugar for them to cover it.
Fuel we have run is from the local stations and none of it was what I would call cheap stations either.
None of the other vehicles are displaying this.
Warranty as far as we are concerned.
Did you take a look at the link to google on how widespread vw's problem is.
https://www.google.ca/search?client...0...1ac.1.34.firefox-hp..5.9.1299.SqoyuSXU2U0

 

[Tuco]

bad fuel for sure. The metal won't rust itself..

That is exactly what I was thinking. If there was just plain old water vapor condensing and accumulating in the fuel tank, I don't think anything would happen unless there was some type of salt to react with the metal to create the oxide (rust).

Granted, chemistry wasn't my best subject, so I could be completely off base here. Maybe someone else could chime in with more knowledge on the subject.

 

[Tuco]

Maybe some clown at the dealership dumped some table salt in your tank...

 

[jetlagmech]

thought I remembered a service letter or bulletin on the lift pump rods rusting and flaking off due to wrong material used. I'll have to do a little searching.

after some searching found several threads here and on myturbodiesel.com talking about this rust on the lift pump rods, but no TSB or letter. (don't tell my wife I admitted I was wrong about something. I'll never live it down.)

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Anyone know of a class action in progress


Lots and lots of rust
Inferior metal
Oh Bother
I have been reading how Volkswagen settles these claims right before you go to court.
That way they are buying the plaintiff's silence.
Anyone know of a class action in progress.
They have officially denied me warranty coverage.

 

[Scratchy101]

Well you got me scared now Joe.

BTW, I fill up exclusively at Chevron's.
That way I can try and blame them for damage like this.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

doesn't matter where you fill
the metal is crap
Dew takes place in the fuel tank
I just found out there is a stainless steel replacement kit for 15 bux
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/rusted-fuel-sending-units-rods-replace-them.7040/

 

[yatzee]

doesn't matter where you fill
the metal is crap
Dew takes place in the fuel tank
I just found out there is a stainless steel replacement kit for 15 bux
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/rusted-fuel-sending-units-rods-replace-them.7040/

The metal is crap? Really? If the metal was crap, then 100% of all 2009+ VW diesels would have failed like yours.

I understand that you're upset about your situation, but logically speaking, something caused the metal to rust, and given that it is part of the fuel system, i'm suspecting it's fuel related.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Right lets have a usless argument about a subject that doesn't need discussing.
If one failed then they should have done something about it long ago.
Do you actually know what yours look like?
Are they rust free?
I try and buy quality
These rods are not quality.
If they aren't quality they are .....substandard.....they are definitely NOT over engineered
Not crap ha
My personal opinion is there should have been a safeguard built in for this type of possibility.
Sounds like a $.57 excuse that has cost peoples lives and GM is trying to defend.

 

[yatzee]

Right lets have a usless argument about a subject that doesn't need discussing.
If one failed then they should have done something about it long ago.
Do you actually know what yours look like?

No, i'm afraid that I only know what the inside of my fuel filter housing looks like as I do my own maintenance. I also do not have a no starting vehicle, nor a check engine light on.

I'm done with this discussion. I get really fed up with the alarmists who blame VW for everything on this site. I have multiple friends who drive CRs and not a single one has every had a fuel related issue, even the cars with over 150,000 miles.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

No, i'm afraid that I only know what the inside of my fuel filter housing looks like as I do my own maintenance. I also do not have a no starting vehicle, nor a check engine light on.

I'm done with this discussion. I get really fed up with the alarmists who blame VW for everything on this site. I have multiple friends who drive CRs and not a single one has every had a fuel related issue, even the cars with over 150,000 miles.

I agree discussion is over
Lucky for your friends
Good luck to all you guys
Maybe I will stir up enough stuff to cause a recall we all benefit from.
Transport Canada is real interested
Thanks for your input

 

[yatzee]

I agree discussion is over
Lucky for your friends
Good luck to all you guys
Maybe I will stir up enough stuff to cause a recall we all benefit from.
Transport Canada is real interested
Thanks for your input

Recalls are safety related.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/safevehicles-defectinvestigations-index-76.htm

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Recalls are safety related.
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/motorvehiclesafety/safevehicles-defectinvestigations-index-76.htm

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]I Know...

Go to this website…
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues

Search for Engineering Analysis: EA11003

Regards,
Paul


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul Tiessen[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Motor Vehicle Defect Investigator[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Transport Canada, Motor Vehicle Safety Directorate[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Motor Vehicle Safety Investigations Laboratory[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]80 Noel Street, Gatineau, QC J8Z 0A1 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]tel.819.994.3168[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]paul.tiessen@tc.gc.ca[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Government of Canada[/FONT]



[/FONT]

 

[yatzee]

[FONT=Calibri, sans-serif]I Know...

Go to this website…
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchSafetyIssues

Search for Engineering Analysis: EA11003

Regards,
Paul


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Paul Tiessen[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Motor Vehicle Defect Investigator[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Transport Canada, Motor Vehicle Safety Directorate[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Motor Vehicle Safety Investigations Laboratory[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]80 Noel Street, Gatineau, QC J8Z 0A1 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]tel.819.994.3168[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]paul.tiessen@tc.gc.ca[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Government of Canada[/FONT]



[/FONT]

so you're not buying the misfueling explanation? .11% failure rate for 2010 vehicles.

Who's Paul Tiessen?

 

[Smokin_Joe]

so you're not buying the misfueling explanation? .11% failure rate for 2010 vehicles.

Who's Paul Tiessen?

He is defect department of Transport Canada.
He is studying the open file about the rust that leads to failure of too many VW tdi's.
Sudden power loss and stalling is a SAFETY ISSUE.
Ok Discussion is now officially over.

Lets move on
Quote all the statistics you want.
Don't care
I can take statistics and create anything.

If One tractor trailer or 1 plane went down and took someone out because of the use of crappy steel like this they would be all over it.
So we drive consumer related vehicles.
look at the $.57 thing going on with GM over an ignition issue
NHTSA is tearing them up.

Our lives are not worth crap.

Oh look said it again.
So I am done.
Please don't go on and on.
Don't go away mad...just go away
lol

 

[yatzee]

the only statistic I quote was an official one from the NHTSA.

let me know how it turns out, either in this thread, or on a PM.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

the only statistic I quote was an official one from the NHTSA.

let me know how it turns out, either in this thread, or on a PM.

Cool
I will do that

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Volkswagen rep called and told me he has approved repairs, for research purposes.
I will post details after repairs completed

 

[Scratchy101]

Hi Joe, any word on how this is going?

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Sorry Didn't reply Sooner

As I mentioned earlier the dealer and everyone else had denied my repairs claiming "contaminated fuel". I did a number of things after this happened, checked all filters of all vehicles. Took samples of every fuel source and had them analyzed and I asked many people to put me in touch with the local VW district rep. Volkswagen of Canada dumped my request and made reference to getting legal counsel. They were real supportive.
Transport Canada has a file in play and are monitoring the NHSTA and what action it takes.
All results came back normal for fuel and the sample from the car filter contained iron, diesel and some small amount of water content consistent with being in a water separator that was not changed for 15 months.
Here is an email from the lab

As per our conversation, I have attached the sample of the results taken from the Gulf TDI. Analysis of the fuel shows that property and contamination wise, the fuel is in fact useable if you were able to remove the particulate/rust. Being that this sample was pulled from a filter that has a water separator; the amount of water in the fuel is not uncommon and quite low. This does not account for any free water (not in suspension) that may or may not be in the filter. The low level of water contamination in the fuel and with the fuel matching standard diesel properties indicates that the fuel was not contaminated before it entered the fuel tank. This is further shown by the 3 other samples from the various fueling stations used and those 3 fuels are free from contamination and match standard properties as well. If you have any further remarks/questions, please do not hesitate to contact me for further clarification.

The rust came from the rusting rods in the fuel sending unit.
The rep okay-ed the repairs for research and said that this was not an admission of guilt.
Fair enough.
I would have had the sending unit rods analyzed but they were to be shipped to the District rep.
End result is vehicle has been repaired and I don't know when the rods will start rusting again.
Dew takes place in the fuel tank and certain types of steel should not be used in that type of environment.
Thank you for your interest and help everyone

 

[turbovan+tdi]

Very interesting thread.

 

[waltzconmigo]

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/threads/rusted-fuel-sending-units-rods-replace-them.7040/

check this thread on chitty's site from member dweisel.

 

[bobt2382]

I contacted Dweisel a couple of months ago and he sent a set of the stainless steel replacement hardware. Waiting to install.

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Very interesting thread.

I will agree with you there!
But interesting can have many meanings and taken many ways.
I think it was very interesting how we were accused of contaminating the fuel. I also think it is very interesting that Volkswagen would even produce something that would not be capable of handling the elements that a fuel system can be subjected to in the real world. Diesel fuel systems that have to deal with dew, and temperature changes and air. You know real world stuff.
Like you said....Interesting...very interesting....lol

 

[Smokin_Joe]

Anyone want to buy a Tdi

Well Sunday the wife was left high and dry on a dark road in Richmond. The 2nd HPFP died. Self destructed, filter was fine but apparently metal in HPFP. Don't know details don't care anymore. Apparently Dealer said they are having a problem on getting stock of good replacement HPFP. They are fixing it and when warranty runs out the Extended warranty will cover us till Dec 2017 and if we haven't sold it by then it will be traded in. 50000 kms almost Mint condition, haven't figured out a price but we are DONE. We can transfer the Extended Warranty to new owner but not through a dealer. It is in the fine print. Take care everyone thanks for listening

 

[Scratchy101]

That's sad to hear Joe.
I'm approaching 50K on mine <fingers crossed>.
I doubt I will ever buy another VW, just because of how VW treats their customers.
Every car manufacturer has had issues with their vehicles.
It is how they deal with the issues and treat their customers that shows the ones that really care. I don't get this from VW at all.

I was forced to pay for AC refrigerant replacement costs even though still under warranty - 30g of refrigerant left out of an initial 500g on a 2 year old vehicle.
Obviously a leak somewhere which they could not find. New coolant apparently has dye in it, so the next time it runs dry they can find the leak.
They claim this is VWs policy and there is nothing you can do about it.

Accusing customers of miss-fueling or contaminating fuel without proof is not the way to build a good brand name or customer relationship.
I feel for you and your wife.
Good luck in the future with what ever vehicle you decide to replace this with.